[eric343]

I won't argue about price-performance. If that's what we're talking about, then let's just buy KSC-35s or Etys and be done with it

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyll Hertsens Personally I think the BlockHead and 650 do outperform the Orpheus. I think a balanced drive dynamic does stuff that an e-stat can't. I own an Orpheus and the Stax Omegas and a BlockHead, and have had significant listening time on them and it's clear to me that: 1) e-stats sound different than dynamics, and generally inferior in technical terms (though some romantics may like the euphonic though less accurate sound better)

Anyway. You say that the Orpheus and Omega 2 are inferior in technical terms (though you applied that to electrostats in general) -- would you mind saying which ones?

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say the HD650s/Blockhead outperform the Orpheus? You certainly can't be talking about detail, unless the Orpheus amplifier is far worse than I remember. Nor treble extension and clarity. And while it's quite possible that the HD650s do things with the bass that the Orpheus doesn't, since you extended your statements to include all electrostats I'm going to say that you apparently are in sore need of hearing the Omega 2 on a good amp. (read: gilmore) Try putting them in "Basshead mode"

(with the thick part of the earpads rotated so they face up)

But yeah, I am a snob-o-phile when it comes to electrostats. How'd you guess?

Oh, and one last thing -- if you own the Orpheus and Stax Omega 2 system, why haven't you measured them yet?!

 

[markl]

eric343, also helps to keep in mind that Tyll runs a company that makes amps for *dynamic cans*. It stands to reason he's going to be a *little* biased in favor of dynamic cans that work with his amps and for Senn to make more and better dynamic cans, it's good for his business. Not that I doubt his sincerity necessarily,I'm sure he truly feels the way he does, but I also take his comments with a tiny little grain of salt.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl eric343, also helps to keep in mind that Tyll runs a company that makes amps for *dynamic cans*. It stands to reason he's going to be a *little* biased in favor of dynamic cans that work with his amps and for Senn to make more and better dynamic cans, it's good for his business. Not that I doubt his sincerity necessarily,I'm sure he truly feels the way he does, but I also take his comments with a tiny little grain of salt.

Well, not so much biased in favor of dynamic headphones as a technology but biased in favor of the BlockHead that makes a key component of his Orpheus-beating system

Kind of the way any -- and I mean ANY -- DIY component sounds absolutely awesome to the builder, whether it's a Gilmore amp or a Cmoy. I think it has to do with the fact that the DIY component (or Blockhead) represents a significant investment of time and effort...

Who knows

 

[kevin gilmore]

quote
Oh, and one last thing -- if you own the Orpheus and Stax Omega 2 system, why haven't you measured them yet?!

Yes absolutely. Tyll measured just about everything else, why
not the electrostats. Be fair and take the extra 15 minutes
and go and measure the electrostats.

I have to completely dissagree with tyll on this one.
The diaphrams on electrostats are at most 10% of the
weight of a dynamic diaphram. For the new stax at least
the weight is far less than that. Less weight and the
diaphram can move much faster with less distortion and
much more phase coherence.

The stax earbuds have the lightest weight diaphram of
any headphone on the market. And the widest frequency
response. Drums have a snap on these headphones like
no other. Too bad they are so painful to wear.

As far as the high voltages on the electrostatic amps, so
what. My electrostatic amps have virtually the same distortion
and sonic character as my dynamic amps. I worked hard
to make it that way. I still don't see why no one out there
wants to compete with me.

Danny is a talented engineer. He could do it if he wanted to...

As far as electrostatic speakers go, there are some amazingly
good ones out there. Quad esl63's and martin logan come
to mind. Neither will play as loud as wilsons, but the quads
image like no other speaker. No crossover, and a true
point source. And both of these speakers are dirt cheap
in comparison to revel,wilson,jm labs...

OH and yes it is a hev70. I have one. hate it. Don't use
it. Finally made a stax plug for the he60 that i like.

http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/he60plug.jpg

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin gilmore Danny is a talented engineer. He could do it if he wanted to...

He was laid off from HeadRoom a few months ago. (Or is it a year by now?)

Currently, Pete Millet is doing the design work for Headroom on a contract basis, if I remember correctly.

 

[Tuberoller]

I have to agree with Tyll on most of his points. While I agree that there are some things electrostats do very well,they are far from accurate. They do midrange and most treble very well but deep,accurate bass ain't ever gonna happen with any electrostat,ever. I have owned Martin Logans,my Father owns several pairs of Quads and I have auditioned Innersounds and Quads myself. They have amazing soundstaging(different than imaging in absolute terms) and great detail when driven correctly. E-stat headphones suffer from the same things that similar loudspeakers do. Bass can go deep but it is not accurate and is of the one note variety on its best day with the very best amps and phones currently available. Yes,Ive heard the KGSS,in several incarnations now,and it does improve greatly on the Stax amps but the Gilmore amps cannot correct the inherent limitations of electrostatic drivers. The very best elctrostats are of the hybrid variety and feature dynamic(cone type) bass driver/s. If you've ever listened to ML speakers and heard the obvious gaps in the frequency due to the almost impossibility of matching dynamic and elctrostatic drivers,then you'll know that even the so-called "best" electrostats have serious flaws that are an esoteric "aquired taste" at best. I'm still waiting for the electrostats that do deep bass without loss of the sweet midrange and instrumental tonality.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Diaphragm weight is only one of many design factors. I told you I'm not going to argue this one.

We will measure the estats. It takes about an hour to measure each headphone, and it has to be at night, and we have to set up special for the estats. I'll ask Joe where we can put them on the list, I know he's doing a variety of other things at the moment that make us money so I have to do that as a priority. And if we set up special for anything it should be the Etys and Sures as we are now able to measure them correctly. We'll get to it.

 

[zeplin]

why even try to prove the other is wrong when the deciding factor between e-stat & dynamic setups is purely based on personal preference. i personally like dynamic cans better because of the weighty, musical sound they present. how is that ever going to be a wrong statement??? technical terms do matter a sh&% bit of difference when it comes to perference between these two technologies.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyll Hertsens Diaphragm weight is only one of many design factors. I told you I'm not going to argue this one. We will measure the estats. It takes about an hour to measure each headphone, and it has to be at night, and we have to set up special for the estats. I'll ask Joe where we can put them on the list, I know he's doing a variety of other things at the moment that make us money so I have to do that as a priority. And if we set up special for anything it should be the Etys and Sures as we are now able to measure them correctly. We'll get to it.

Oh, and measure the R10's too if you can.

Heheh, sorry, couldn't hurt to ask.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by zeplin why even try to prove the other is wrong when the deciding factor between e-stat & dynamic setups is purely based on personal preference. i personally like dynamic cans better because of the weighty, musical sound they present. how is that ever going to be a wrong statement??? technical terms do matter a sh&% bit of difference when it comes to perference between these two technologies.

Because we are picky SOB's that like to understand the technology along with just enjoying them.

-Ed

 

[zeplin]

Edwood,
understanding the technology is one thing. arguing/debating and fighting a winless battle of personal preference is another. it is the same as all those Sennheiser vs Sony / forward vs laid back-sound debates. but, you're also right in one way, i do learn some from these type of threds and they are somewhat entertaining to read

 

[robythecat]

I contacted those persons of Sennheiser Germany who must know about a Orpheus II or something similar.

Definitive not!
There isn't such a project in the house!

Roby

PS: Sennheiser Germany Info
Sennheiser Germany gave the last new Orpheus models last year to their distributors. So there must be some new, unused items anywhere on this planet.

PS: Sennheiser Germany Info:
No Orpheus has come back to them for repairing or something like that up to now.

PS: Sennheiser Germany Info
They don't have HE90 headphones to sell them separate from the HEV90 amp.

 

[samhuff]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper994 I highly recommend you don't put $12k+ on a credit card unless you are going to pay it off the same month...

On headphones sure. I mean you are going to need that space on your ccs to buy the source and new SACDs. Maybe a new turntable.

 

[Edwood]

I don't leave $1 on my CC's that I can't pay off that month.


Of course, this hobby makes it really really tempting......

-Ed

 

[mtoc]

They've designed HE1 for ten years, hats off.