[Chefguru]

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin gilmore Have a pair of he60's which are virtually identical to the he90's. The sound on a blue hawaii is so much beter than the hev60 amp its not even the same thing. But the same thing goes for the koss esp950 headphones too. With a real headphone amp, both of these phones are amazing.

hev60?

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Chef.

The HEV60 is the little black box that is the amp that comes with the Mini-O system, which is the HE60 and HEV60. Just like the amp in the Big-O system is the HEV90, and the cans the HE90.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin gilmore Have a pair of he60's which are virtually identical to the he90's.

You've heard the HE90s on one of your amps?

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by eric343 You were not hearing the Orpheus properly. That, or you're deaf. I have yet to hear any dynamic headphone approach either the Stax Omega 2 or Sennheiser HE90 "Orpheus" headphones. And I've heard the HD650s running off a Blockhead. Then again, I'm using a KGSS...

He was probably listening to the Orpheus with an iriver MP3 CD player.

 

[Chefguru]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Chef. The HEV60 is the little black box that is the amp that comes with the Mini-O system, which is the HE60 and HEV60. Just like the amp in the Big-O system is the HEV90, and the cans the HE90.

Nope that's the hev70. There is no such thing as a hev60.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Chef. The HEV60 is the little black box that is the amp that comes with the Mini-O system, which is the HE60 and HEV60. Just like the amp in the Big-O system is the HEV90, and the cans the HE90.

Actually it's the amp section of the Baby O is the HEV70.

*edit* Chefguru beat me to it.

-Ed

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chefguru Nope that's the hev70. There is no such thing as a hev60.

Ah, looks like Kevin and I made the same dumb mistake. Oh well, it isn't my first, and definitely won't be the last.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

I did have a little talk with the marketing folks at Sennheiser about flagship product. First, they don't tell me everything, not by a long shot, so I don't know what they are doing. But, they did ask me my opinion about what they ought to build so I don't think you'll see anything soon. Personally I think the BlockHead and 650 do outperform the Orpheus. I think a balanced drive dynamic does stuff that an e-stat can't. That's not to say that e-stats can't be better than the Orpheus, because with work it probably can. But in the long run, you should be able to get significantly better price performance out of dynamics than e-stats simply because you do to not having to deal with all those high voltages.

Sorry, Eric and all, but I'm not going to argue: yes you've heard the Orpheus and some other amps w/estats, but I own an Orpheus and the Stax Omegas and a BlockHead, and have had significant listening time on them and it's clear to me that: 1) e-stats sound different than dynamics, and generally inferior in technical terms (though some romantics may like the euphonic though less accurate sound better), and 2) that the state of the art of dynamic headphones is moving forward at a better pace than e-stats, and that amplification electronics will allways be significantly less expensive for a given level of performance for the dynamic headphones.

Look at the speaker market: sure there are e-stats, and tube amps for that matter, but the bulk of the market is dynamic speakers and solid state amps. Why? Because overall, they are better price/performance.

 

[Guss2]

Your input is much appreciated Tyll.Gary.

 

[Chefguru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyll Hertsens . Why? Because overall, they are better price/performance.

No not really. The hd650/blockhead cost more then an omegaII with a KGSS. The R10 is 3000-4000 dollars , the ath-l3000 is 2500. Sure their cheaper then the he90 (well some people have gotten the he90 for under 4000) but the he90 is no longer made and the orginal price was so long ago it's stupid to compare it with things around today.

Plus I think a Stax SRS-3030 is much better then the the hd650 on a 300-400 dollar amp. So even in the lower end e-stat still wins.

 

[markl]

Quote:

I did have a little talk with the marketing folks at Sennheiser about flagship product. First, they don't tell me everything, not by a long shot, so I don't know what they are doing. But, they did ask me my opinion about what they ought to build so I don't think you'll see anything soon. Personally I think the BlockHead and 650 do outperform the Orpheus. I think a balanced drive dynamic does stuff that an e-stat can't. That's not to say that e-stats can't be better than the Orpheus, because with work it probably can.

Tyll, I agree that Senn would be better off building new flagship dynamic cans rather than electrostatic, not for sonic reasons necessarily, but practical. Most of us (the largest portion of their potential market) are using dynamic set-ups, with standard dynamic headamps. Rightly or wrongly, as I'm sure Senn is obviously aware, electrostats are are a niche product among headphones.

IMO, they should focus on that gap in the market between $600 dynamic headphones and the $3000 dynamic headphones. Between there is the real "sweet spot" waiting to be exploited. Assuming they're able to develop new dynamic cans that offer improved performance over the HD650, there's a whole huge market segment there for them to dominate if they just wanted to.

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl IMO, they should focus on that gap in the market between $600 dynamic headphones and the $3000 dynamic headphones. Between there is the real "sweet spot" waiting to be exploited. Assuming they're able to develop new dynamic cans that offer improved performance over the HD650, there's a whole huge market segment there for them to dominate if they just wanted to.

"improved performance over HD650" LOL! The phone is still warm from the R&D department and you already want a better! Give them some time for the HD700 please...and listen to the 650s with uber high-end stuff ($10k+) before saying your usual BS. ( dull, veiled, 3 blobs, laid back, and so on...) We don't need to be ripped off with $3000 phones when HD650 is fed with the top-notch gear.

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyll Hertsens I did have a little talk with the marketing folks at Sennheiser about flagship product. First, they don't tell me everything, not by a long shot, so I don't know what they are doing. But, they did ask me my opinion about what they ought to build so I don't think you'll see anything soon. Personally I think the BlockHead and 650 do outperform the Orpheus. I think a balanced drive dynamic does stuff that an e-stat can't. That's not to say that e-stats can't be better than the Orpheus, because with work it probably can. But in the long run, you should be able to get significantly better price performance out of dynamics than e-stats simply because you do to not having to deal with all those high voltages. Sorry, Eric and all, but I'm not going to argue: yes you've heard the Orpheus and some other amps w/estats, but I own an Orpheus and the Stax Omegas and a BlockHead, and have had significant listening time on them and it's clear to me that: 1) e-stats sound different than dynamics, and generally inferior in technical terms (though some romantics may like the euphonic though less accurate sound better), and 2) that the state of the art of dynamic headphones is moving forward at a better pace than e-stats, and that amplification electronics will allways be significantly less expensive for a given level of performance for the dynamic headphones. Look at the speaker market: sure there are e-stats, and tube amps for that matter, but the bulk of the market is dynamic speakers and solid state amps. Why? Because overall, they are better price/performance.

isn't it against head-fi rules for company representatives to make comments equipment? especially when compared to other manufacturers?

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch isn't it against head-fi rules for company representatives to make comments equipment? especially when compared to other manufacturers?

Tyll forgot to put his comments within the [personal] [/personal] code.

-Ed

 

[markl]

Quote:

"improved performance over HD650" LOL! The phone is still warm from the R&D department and you already want a better!

Of course. Why not? Why wouldn't anyone want as many better quality headphones to choose from as possible? Quote:

Give them some time for the HD700 please...and listen to the 650s with uber high-end stuff ($10k+) before saying your usual BS. ( dull, veiled, 3 blobs, laid back, and so on...) We don't need to be ripped off with $3000 phones when HD650 is fed with the top-notch gear.

So, let's get "ripped off" with $10K+ amps to make the $350 headphones sound palatable, is that your solution? So, you'd rather spend $9,650 of your hypothetical $10K system budget on *amplification*? That's not very smart to me, but hey, it's your hypothetical $10K, not mine.

You have a very expensive pre/headphone amp (haven't looked at your source or cabling but I assume they are likewise very expesnsive), so it's not like you are just one of those people who are inherently opposed to high-end gear, it's just high-end headphones you are opposed to, doesn't make sense.

You have this almost religious belief in the Senn phones as if they are hand delivered down from the mountain by Moses. That it's physically and technologically impossible for the human race to develop a better set of headphones. IMO, with all due respect, that's ridiculous. It's a product designed and built to meet a certain price target. What can be done if Senn pushes back some of those constraints? As much as I like my R10s, there's no way you could get me to argue that there will never be a better sounding headphone, or that Sony should just stop and never even consider making and R11 or R20 ever in the future because the R10 is *perfect* as it is.

Flashback 6-9 months ago before the arrival of the HD600 and Mastergill you were every bit as fervent about the HD600 being the absolute pinnacle as you are now about the HD650. If Senn could improve your beloved HD600, they can improve on the HD650. I'm confident that when the HD700 comes out you will look at your HD650 the same way you now look at the HD600.

I say "bring on the Senn hD700, HD800, HD900...!!!!"

It's good for the hobby.