What’s the Rationale?
Oct 22, 2023 at 6:56 PM Post #76 of 105
You can't crap something that is already crapped. If we had a real conversation going here instead of "I think it and that makes it true and I'll stamp my little foot if anyone says otherwise", there might be something to reply to. As it is, meta conversation is all we've got. The only thing worth discussing now is if anyone has heard the new Stones album and is it worth getting?
 
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Oct 22, 2023 at 8:27 PM Post #78 of 105
That guy is a high end audio salesman. He also has the ability to delete comments that don't feed his grift.
 
Oct 23, 2023 at 7:54 AM Post #80 of 105
The people in the comments seem to be completely deluded, regurgitating his BS back to him. I suspect a significant number of them are shills. I’m quite sure he deletes comments that contradict his pitch.
 
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Nov 19, 2023 at 11:28 AM Post #81 of 105
You can't crap something that is already crapped. If we had a real conversation going here instead of "I think it and that makes it true and I'll stamp my little foot if anyone says otherwise", there might be something to reply to. As it is, meta conversation is all we've got. The only thing worth discussing now is if anyone has heard the new Stones album and is it worth getting?
Happened to be in the store the day it was released, so I thought “ why not” .. if you’re a Stones fan I’d say “Yes” ..
In isolation, lyrics in some tracks are interesting, others quite simple, musicianship is great .. (as it should be by now) 😬
Downside of the CD release is the usual loud, compressed recording typical of modern releases ..
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 11:34 AM Post #82 of 105
Loud and compressed is part of the Stones’ signature sound since the 60s.
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 1:04 PM Post #84 of 105
Go listen to Street Fighting Man. It’s pretty in your face. Compressed isn’t automatically bad. Some music is better compressed.
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 3:40 AM Post #86 of 105
Not saying it's proof of anything but read some of the comments:
TBH, the comments are pretty much exactly what I would expect and entirely in-line with how the audiophile world has existed for nigh on half a century. I’m not saying it’s not an interesting phenomenon, just that after seeing/hearing the same responses for 3 decades it is entirely predictable. It’s of course based on ignorance but that is not what’s interesting as we are all ignorant to various degrees of much of what we’re surrounded by, because much of what we’re surrounded by is based on the cumulative work over the course of years/decades/centuries of numerous different scientists and engineers highly specialised in numerous different fields.

What IS interesting is the medieval approach of many audiophiles, the veracity of assertions is judged solely by fallacious means; by how authoritative, trustworthy or “nice” the presenter appears to be and by the false assumption that their personal perception is a near infinitely accurate measure of reality/fact. Modern science was invented centuries ago precisely to combat this medieval/fallacious approach because of course appearing to be an authority/trustworthy/nice isn’t only an indicator of truth but also the hallmark of successful con artists and pretty much all art relies on fooling perception. But the science, fact checking, critical reasoning and even basic common sense in many cases are at best all secondary and at worst, completely ignored or actively fought against. At least those in the medieval era had a good excuse for believing in nonsense superstitions/assertions, as there was no modern science, they had little/no means of fact checking and critical reasoning is pretty much impossible without any accurate facts. What’s also interesting is the number of posters who brazenly falsely claim qualifications/specific education. Although that shouldn’t really be a surprise, as the occasional one is so brazen they’ll even try that obnoxious tactic in this subforum or in professional forums.

G
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 5:13 AM Post #87 of 105
TBH, the comments are pretty much exactly what I would expect and entirely in-line with how the audiophile world has existed for nigh on half a century. I’m not saying it’s not an interesting phenomenon, just that after seeing/hearing the same responses for 3 decades it is entirely predictable. It’s of course based on ignorance but that is not what’s interesting as we are all ignorant to various degrees of much of what we’re surrounded by, because much of what we’re surrounded by is based on the cumulative work over the course of years/decades/centuries of numerous different scientists and engineers highly specialised in numerous different fields.

What IS interesting is the medieval approach of many audiophiles, the veracity of assertions is judged solely by fallacious means; by how authoritative, trustworthy or “nice” the presenter appears to be and by the false assumption that their personal perception is a near infinitely accurate measure of reality/fact. Modern science was invented centuries ago precisely to combat this medieval/fallacious approach because of course appearing to be an authority/trustworthy/nice isn’t only an indicator of truth but also the hallmark of successful con artists and pretty much all art relies on fooling perception. But the science, fact checking, critical reasoning and even basic common sense in many cases are at best all secondary and at worst, completely ignored or actively fought against. At least those in the medieval era had a good excuse for believing in nonsense superstitions/assertions, as there was no modern science, they had little/no means of fact checking and critical reasoning is pretty much impossible without any accurate facts. What’s also interesting is the number of posters who brazenly falsely claim qualifications/specific education. Although that shouldn’t really be a surprise, as the occasional one is so brazen they’ll even try that obnoxious tactic in this subforum or in professional forums.

G


Most of us listen to music purely for pleasure and have been exposed to marketing and our peers waxing lyrical on everything audio for many years, so when we're exposed to the science side there is a reluctance to question long held beliefs.

I was listening for a change to SE output and when switching back to balanced noticed the soundstage was wider. Would this be just down to how a player's made: with priority given to architecture and components for the balanced side over SE? In a well made system wouldn't SE and balanced sound the same? - not that there would be a need for balanced output.
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Post #88 of 105
Go listen to Street Fighting Man. It’s pretty in your face. Compressed isn’t automatically bad. Some music is better compressed.
I believe most music needs dynamic compression to sound good, but this compression is controlled and done in the mixing/mastering process. The kind of dynamic compression done in the name of loudness war however is generally bad for the music because it ruins the (hopefully) tastefully done compression by mixing engineers. Using dynamic compression in order to make the music sound better is different from making it sound louder, even if from psychoacoustic point of view louder often means subjectively better. Turning the volume knob up just is better than compressing the music blindly to sound louder.
 
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Nov 20, 2023 at 6:56 AM Post #89 of 105
We’re all like that. Who here wouldn’t “doggedly refuse to give an inch” on say the earth being flat or 1+1=2?
I think I have given an inch or two about my crossfeed claims. It perhaps took me a year or two to do so, but I did it, didn't I?

I went from

"Crossfeed makes headphones sound loudspeaker-like for everyone"

to

"Crossfeed makes headphones sound spatially more natural and pleasant for me"
 
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Nov 20, 2023 at 10:14 AM Post #90 of 105
Each to their own,
Don’t want to drag this thread too far off topic.
I think the topic has been answered and this is arguably indirectly related to the topic. I’ve often heard audiophiles moan about compression, lambast those who apply it and demand recordings without any. The rationale being that more dynamic range is good, compression reduces dynamic range and causes the loudness war. So compression is poison, less is better, none at all is best. This is a faulty rationale, born out of ignorance, the actual rationale should be more like the rationale of oxygen; too much is poisonous and will kill you, but too little is equally lethal. There are exceedingly few recordings that would benefit from no compression, it is the most essential tool in the sound engineering arsenal next to EQ.
I was listening for a change to SE output and when switching back to balanced noticed the soundstage was wider. Would this be just down to how a player's made: with priority given to architecture and components for the balanced side over SE? In a well made system wouldn't SE and balanced sound the same? - not that there would be a need for balanced output.
It is possible that the architecture/components are given more priority on “the balanced side over SE” and there are some examples of this. However, it would be quite rare for this to be great enough to cause audible issues. As is typical, audiophiles will ignore anything that might be perceptual error based and jump straight to some technicality which makes no difference that they can buy they way around (either with a more expensive audiophile product or an audiophile fix), while ignoring the actual facts. “In a well made system SE and balanced” do not sound the same, balanced is louder (typically 6dB) and also has slightly higher distortion, although not audibly more. And, a wider soundstage is a common perceptual side-effect/error of being louder.

G
 

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