[lotech]

   
Indeed, that's good.  As we learned from 64audio, they designed some of their iems for performing musicians who use a wireless headphone receiver pack (that one has higher output impedance).  In case of Westone UM Pro series which is also designed for musician (though, I still think UM Pro 30 is damn good for everyday use out of your smartphone), the sound should be OK with a low impedance source.

 
I agree 100% that the UM Pro 30 is an excellent all rounder, it's been my goto IEM until recently (bought 64 Audo). I find the 30 pairs well with the OPUS#1 for a killer budget
setup.

 

[elfary]

   
Indeed, that's good.  As we learned from 64audio, they designed some of their iems for performing musicians who use a wireless headphone receiver pack (that one has higher output impedance).  In case of Westone UM Pro series which is also designed for musician (though, I still think UM Pro 30 is damn good for everyday use out of your smartphone), the sound should be OK with a low impedance source.

Back in 2011 i exchanged impressions on that very matter with a Westone engineer and he assured me that they designed their iems to sound as intended with very low output impedance sources. Hence they bundled for a while a Fiio E6 amp (Zout less than 1 ohm). Heck he actually prevented me about using inline attenuators.
 
(To me) thinking that an iem designer tailors the signature to sound best with high output impedance sources is just wishful thinking. At least Shure and Westone do not stick to that treacherous train of thought.

 

[virgopunk]

To be fair, it's not like there aren't any detailed reviews available on-line. If was going to lay out $500 for an IEM I'd want to know exactly what I'm shelling out for.

 

[Danz03]

I think they sure let a lot of people down, especially profession musicians or engineers.

i.e. Shure specifically marketed SM58 as a vocal mic and Beta 52A as a mic for kick drum or bass cabinet, anyone can use them for other instruments etc if they want to, but at least we know what they are primarily designed for. With Pro 50 specially designed and tuned for bassist and drummer (according to the Westone rep) but without any specific description to me is very unprofessional. Imagine how pissed a tenor would be if he bought a Bata 52A mic and then realized the mic can't even capture his vocal range properly? I sure would be very pissed if I spent over $500 on the Pro 50 based on Westone's reputation and previous experience of the UM or Pro series expecting a pair of IEMs with flat or neutral sound signature without demoing, and I'd surely return them right away, and wasted myself a lot of time. I think it's a bit irresponsible on the company's side.

As for the SE846, at least they are generally balanced sounding with great bass extension, unlike the Pro 50, which are more muddy low mids than sub bass.

Don't think you let anybody down, it's just impossible to make everybody happy

I guess some people expected UM Pro 50 to be more neutral, but that's not the case with these IEMs.  For sure, the bass is one of its strongest attributes which can go head-to-head with a more expensive 846.

Since Westone has so many different models across W-series and UM Pro series, maybe it will be a good idea to have a simple Bass/Mids/Treble graph indicator next to each one under a product listing so people can figure out which one will suite their taste better in a relative comparison.

Anybody else has any other suggestions, since we got Westone rep reading this thread?

 

[Smurfs2010]

I think they sure let a lot of people down, especially profession musicians or engineers.

i.e. Shure specifically marketed SM58 as a vocal mic and Beta 52A as a mic for kick drum or bass cabinet, anyone can use them for other instruments etc if they want to, but at least we know what they are primarily designed for. With Pro 50 specially designed and tuned for bassist and drummer (according to the Westone rep) but without any specific description to me is very unprofessional. Imagine how pissed a tenor would be if he bought a Bata 52A mic and then realized the mic can't even capture his vocal range properly? I sure would be very pissed if I spent over $500 on the Pro 50 based on Westone's reputation and previous experience of the UM or Pro series expecting a pair of IEMs with flat or neutral sound signature without demoing, and I'd surely return them right away, and wasted myself a lot of time. I think it's a bit irresponsible on the company's side.

As for the SE846, at least they are generally balanced sounding with great bass extension, unlike the Pro 50, which are more muddy low mids than sub bass.

 
"I think they sure let a lot of people down" - Is this based off some polling?  Just curious.  
 
I usually stay out of these discussions because they lead to nowhere.  However, in this case, I find myself agreeing with both sides.  And both sides have some compelling point of views.  From a marketing and sales prospective, I think Westone should note the “tuning” of the IEMs or sound signature on their website.  But there are a bunch or bias and unbiased reviews which point this out.
 
As for the sound of the UMPRO50, I am a fan.  But I do agree that the sound is dark.  That said, I switch between multiple IEMs and am a causal listener.  I find that when I switch to other IEMs (i.e. ASG 2.5, Audeo pfe232 and UMPRO30), I want to come back to the 50 for the clarity – what?  Yes, I find the other spectrum of sound to be clean even with the darker sound and/or muddy lows.  I also find that source is a huge (say it like Trump) factor.  When I am connected to SONY ZX1/PHA2, the clarity and separation is phenomenal.  When I connected the UMPro30/50 to Fiio X3 (new and old), the lows were really muddy.  While I am at it, Pioneer DAP also plays well with the UMPro 30/50.  Do I EQ?  Sometimes, I don’t see anything wrong with EQing if it gets me to where I want to be.  I also prefer rolled off highs as I am sensitive to them, so, that may lean my preference to these types of IEMs (this is where individual preference comes in).
 
That's all I got but an interesting discussion.  

 

[sweetbabala]

I own a pair of the Pro 50 and have been very happy with them, build quality and sound-wise. I did a lot of reading before purchasing, including a great review from twister6, and have never regretted my purchase. I wasn't able to demo before purchasing, but didn't feel there was any lack of useful information to be found, if the time was spent looking.

Mind you, I am not a musician, but can see some being disappointed if they felt the product was not as accurately represented as necessary for a fully informed purchase. I don't doubt Westone would take the constructive criticism to heart for future releases, though. I think they produce a high quality product and am looking for to trying out the W80 one day.

Ryan

 

[twister6]

In my personal opinion and based on my review experience of various headphones/earphones (no bias here), I think it's a bad idea for any manufacturer to label their product being specific to some genre or sound application.  First of all we all hear sound different, to some degree.  Then, we use different sources which greatly affect synergy with different headphones.  Also, people switch cables, change eartips, use custom phone ROMs, etc, which all contributes more to further refinement of the sound.  Just way too many variables.  Yes, there is a fundamental sound signature as intended by manufacturer during the tuning of the product, and that's perhaps what they should mention, leaving it up to a customer to decide which on is more appropriate for their application or hits it closer to their sweet spot...  And at the end of the day, if you really feel like being "let down", the product could always be returned or exchanged.
 
Now, with all that said, I'm pretty sure every manufacturers closely monitors the returns and the reasoning for these returns as well as any on-line complaints about their products.  And to be honest, this is the first time I see someone being so vocal, mislead, and let down as I see in this case with Danz03 bashing UMPro50

  Usually, people complain about something breaking outside of the warranty or not covered by the warranty.  But either way, it's cool that Westone rep is browsing these threads and can get some feedback, both positive and negative.  As long as we don't scare him away

 

[Danz03]

People like me at least. I used to be able to just trust Westone products to give me a decent balanced sound signature, especially the UM or Pro series, the Pro 50 totally changed my view about Westone, I would have gotten the W80 without even a second though after demoing them but now I find myself looking for alternatives if possible, whether they are actually better or not.

"I think they sure let a lot of people down" - Is this based off some polling?  Just curious.  

 

[Danz03]

The Pro series is marketed as IEMs for professionals, professionals need proper specs, one cannot market a mic as a general purpose mic when it's specifily designed for recording bass and kick drum. Like how the Pro 50 are desigbeed for, bassist and drummers, as confirmed by the Westone rep, hence the overly emphasized low mids and bass. I've had more than 6 pairs of UM3x/rc/Pro 30 with dead drivers but I'm still buying new ones and using them daily because they are good examples of products that perform according to their specs. Pro 50 are just misleading if they don't advertise them as what they are supposed to be for. SM58 or Beta 52A don't get to become the most popular mics for vocal and kick drum respectively by misleading the customers, they are popular because they are good for the jobs they are specifically designed for.

In my personal opinion and based on my review experience of various headphones/earphones (no bias here), I think it's a bad idea for any manufacturer to label their product being specific to some genre or sound application.  First of all we all hear sound different, to some degree.  Then, we use different sources which greatly affect synergy with different headphones.  Also, people switch cables, change eartips, use custom phone ROMs, etc, which all contributes more to further refinement of the sound.  Just way too many variables.  Yes, there is a fundamental sound signature as intended by manufacturer during the tuning of the product, and that's perhaps what they should mention, leaving it up to a customer to decide which on is more appropriate for their application or hits it closer to their sweet spot...  And at the end of the day, if you really feel like being "let down", the product could always be returned or exchanged.

Now, with all that said, I'm pretty sure every manufacturers closely monitors the returns and the reasoning for these returns as well as any on-line complaints about their products.  And to be honest, this is the first time I see someone being so vocal, mislead, and let down as I see in this case with Danz03 bashing UMPro50   Usually, people complain about something breaking outside of the warranty or not covered by the warranty.  But either way, it's cool that Westone rep is browsing these threads and can get some feedback, both positive and negative.  As long as we don't scare him away

 

[twister6]

The Pro series is marketed as IEMs for professionals, professionals need proper specs, one cannot market a mic as a general purpose mic when it's specifily designed for recording bass and kick drum. Like how the Pro 50 are desigbeed for, bassist and drummers, as confirmed by the Westone rep, hence the overly emphasized low mids and bass. I've had more than 6 pairs of UM3x/rc/Pro 30 with dead drivers but I'm still buying new ones and using them daily because they are good examples of products that perform according to their specs. Pro 50 are just misleading if they don't advertise them as what they are supposed to be for. SM58 or Beta 52A don't get to become the most popular mics for vocal and kick drum respectively by misleading the customers, they are popular because they are good for the jobs they are specifically designed for.

In my personal opinion and based on my review experience of various headphones/earphones (no bias here), I think it's a bad idea for any manufacturer to label their product being specific to some genre or sound application.  First of all we all hear sound different, to some degree.  Then, we use different sources which greatly affect synergy with different headphones.  Also, people switch cables, change eartips, use custom phone ROMs, etc, which all contributes more to further refinement of the sound.  Just way too many variables.  Yes, there is a fundamental sound signature as intended by manufacturer during the tuning of the product, and that's perhaps what they should mention, leaving it up to a customer to decide which on is more appropriate for their application or hits it closer to their sweet spot...  And at the end of the day, if you really feel like being "let down", the product could always be returned or exchanged.

Now, with all that said, I'm pretty sure every manufacturers closely monitors the returns and the reasoning for these returns as well as any on-line complaints about their products.  And to be honest, this is the first time I see someone being so vocal, mislead, and let down as I see in this case with Danz03 bashing UMPro50

  Usually, people complain about something breaking outside of the warranty or not covered by the warranty.  But either way, it's cool that Westone rep is browsing these threads and can get some feedback, both positive and negative.  As long as we don't scare him away

 
I see your point, man!  I guess it's good to get perspective from different sides!

 

[coolhand]

The Pro series is marketed as IEMs for professionals, professionals need proper specs, one cannot market a mic as a general purpose mic when it's specifily designed for recording bass and kick drum. Like how the Pro 50 are desigbeed for, bassist and drummers, as confirmed by the Westone rep, hence the overly emphasized low mids and bass. I've had more than 6 pairs of UM3x/rc/Pro 30 with dead drivers but I'm still buying new ones and using them daily because they are good examples of products that perform according to their specs. Pro 50 are just misleading if they don't advertise them as what they are supposed to be for. SM58 or Beta 52A don't get to become the most popular mics for vocal and kick drum respectively by misleading the customers, they are popular because they are good for the jobs they are specifically designed for.

"I think they sure let a lot of people down, especially profession musicians or engineers."
 
 
I'm a professional engineer & musician who's been involved in numerous internationally awarded multi-platinum productions over the decades.... in absolutely no way do I feel that Westone has let me down or misled either myself, my colleagues or the general public in regards to their marketing of their UM Pro series in ear headphones (of which I do own the Um Pro50 btw.) !!!
 
Regardless of what ANY company claims of their products, they cannot force you to purchase them and irrespective of that, one has countless possibilities to make personal assessments and/or auditions of a product in question.
In the few instances where that is not convenient, there are numerous alternatives which give the prospective purchaser clear options for return if not satisfied within a given period.
 
Having said all that, hearing is such an incredibly subjective experience that makes any and all other considerations irrelevant, the sole arbiter of sound quality is the listeners own ears, period.
 
As for the comments about SM58's.... I don't recall the last time I've ever used one for vocals, although they get loads of use on snares and guitar amps around these parts

 

[lotech]

I'm not so sure that Westone let anyone down, the only issue I see is that the information about sound signature of the UM Pro series is difficult to find.
This is what is on the website:

... The UM (Universal Monitor) Pro Series was designed for onstage use in live sound applications as in-ear musicians’ monitors. The UM Pro10, UM Pro20, UM Pro30 and UM Pro50 all feature a greater emphasis on low frequency information, while maintaining excellent mids and highs. Because live music is less refined than prerecorded mastered music, musicians need an in-ear musicians’ monitor that have the frequencies necessary to handle whatever equalization is required to replicate the natural sound of their instrument. More headroom in the low frequencies also allows drummers and bassists to “feel” the additional low end associated with their instrument.

 

[ljnew]

  I'm not so sure that Westone let anyone down, the only issue I see is that the information about sound signature of the UM Pro series is difficult to find.
This is what is on the website:

looks good to me but they say emphasis on the bass but Westone bass is a joke compared to less expensive audio technica ath-e70 and ckr10.  It just doesnt go too deep before it starts to taper off.  Not as quick and accurate either.

 

[ljnew]

  "I think they sure let a lot of people down, especially profession musicians or engineers."
 
 
I'm a professional engineer & musician who's been involved in numerous internationally awarded multi-platinum productions over the decades.... in absolutely no way do I feel that Westone has let me down or misled either myself, my colleagues or the general public in regards to their marketing of their UM Pro series in ear headphones (of which I do own the Um Pro50 btw.) !!!
 
Regardless of what ANY company claims of their products, they cannot force you to purchase them and irrespective of that, one has countless possibilities to make personal assessments and/or auditions of a product in question.
In the few instances where that is not convenient, there are numerous alternatives which give the prospective purchaser clear options for return if not satisfied within a given period.
 
Having said all that, hearing is such an incredibly subjective experience that makes any and all other considerations irrelevant, the sole arbiter of sound quality is the listeners own ears, period.
 
As for the comments about SM58's.... I don't recall the last time I've ever used one for vocals, although they get loads of use on snares and guitar amps around these parts

Do you have experiece with audio-technica ath-e70?  Can you compare them to um pro 50?  Curious to know your opinion as an engineer.

 

[ljnew]

I think they sure let a lot of people down, especially profession musicians or engineers.

i.e. Shure specifically marketed SM58 as a vocal mic and Beta 52A as a mic for kick drum or bass cabinet, anyone can use them for other instruments etc if they want to, but at least we know what they are primarily designed for. With Pro 50 specially designed and tuned for bassist and drummer (according to the Westone rep) but without any specific description to me is very unprofessional. Imagine how pissed a tenor would be if he bought a Bata 52A mic and then realized the mic can't even capture his vocal range properly? I sure would be very pissed if I spent over $500 on the Pro 50 based on Westone's reputation and previous experience of the UM or Pro series expecting a pair of IEMs with flat or neutral sound signature without demoing, and I'd surely return them right away, and wasted myself a lot of time. I think it's a bit irresponsible on the company's side.

As for the SE846, at least they are generally balanced sounding with great bass extension, unlike the Pro 50, which are more muddy low mids than sub bass.

I have to say as bass iems they sure dont compare to the less expensive ckr10 or ath-e70.  I think Westone could do better in this department.  It's really hard trying to tolerate the bass after listening to Audio Technica even though im a fan of um pro 50.
 
By the way, have you tried the spiral dot or vmoda bliss tips (my favorite) yet?  The bass and highs get a ton better.
 
http://amzn.to/2kcCM7O
 
http://v-moda.com/bliss-3-0-fittings/