[ljnew]

I own a pair of the Pro 50 and have been very happy with them, build quality and sound-wise. I did a lot of reading before purchasing, including a great review from twister6, and have never regretted my purchase. I wasn't able to demo before purchasing, but didn't feel there was any lack of useful information to be found, if the time was spent looking.

Mind you, I am not a musician, but can see some being disappointed if they felt the product was not as accurately represented as necessary for a fully informed purchase. I don't doubt Westone would take the constructive criticism to heart for future releases, though. I think they produce a high quality product and am looking for to trying out the W80 one day.

Ryan

Dont mean to be a hater, but to me the w80 is an overpriced glorified piece of plastic.  And the bass is just awful when compared to some other iems.  
 
Now the es80 should be a different story If they have good bass.  The es series uses the same drivers as the um but they are custom.

 

[twister6]

 

I own a pair of the Pro 50 and have been very happy with them, build quality and sound-wise. I did a lot of reading before purchasing, including a great review from twister6, and have never regretted my purchase. I wasn't able to demo before purchasing, but didn't feel there was any lack of useful information to be found, if the time was spent looking.

Mind you, I am not a musician, but can see some being disappointed if they felt the product was not as accurately represented as necessary for a fully informed purchase. I don't doubt Westone would take the constructive criticism to heart for future releases, though. I think they produce a high quality product and am looking for to trying out the W80 one day.

Ryan

Dont mean to be a hater, but to me the w80 is an overpriced glorified piece of plastic.  And the bass is just awful when compared to some other iems.  
 
Now the es80 should be a different story If they have good bass.  The es series uses the same drivers as the um but they are custom.

 
I guess everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and we just have to agree to disagree, though I'm curious what other IEMs you are comparing it to find bass to be that bad?  How many hours did you burn in W80, and what cable are you using?  What is your source to drive it?  Are you using it with your smartphone only and V4A custom rom with some effects you previously tweaked for UMPro50?  What songs are you playing it with where bass sounds "awful"?  I'm curious to listen to those myself as well.  I mean, you made a very bold statement, so I'm curious if you can elaborate more about it.
 
Also, keep in mind, in a relative comparison it's all about what you are comparing it to.  If you are basshead, perhaps W80 will not satisfy you, etc.

 

[ljnew]

   
I guess everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and we just have to agree to disagree, though I'm curious what other IEMs you are comparing it to find bass to be that bad?  How many hours did you burn in W80, and what cable are you using?  What is your source to drive it?  Are you using it with your smartphone only and V4A custom rom with some effects you previously tweaked for UMPro50?  What songs are you playing it with where bass sounds "awful"?  I'm curious to listen to those myself as well.  I mean, you made a very bold statement, so I'm curious if you can elaborate more about it.
 
Also, keep in mind, in a relative comparison it's all about what you are comparing it to.  If you are basshead, perhaps W80 will not satisfy you, etc.

Lg v20 is my source which is more than good enough to test...
 
With or without v4a the bass sucks to me.  Although I'm not a basshead, there's other people in the w80 thread that says a basshead wouldn't like the bass.
 
Doesn't matter what songs I listen to.
 
I believe the drivers are too small to have an all around substantial bass impact.  Thats the trade off for a smaller size.  You can research driver size and bass, a ton of reputable sources will tell you size matters because of the ability to move air or something.  But consider 10 woofers vs 15.  Do you really believe a 10 can hit harder than a 15?
 
Comparing to the bass on the ath-e70 or the ckr10, the bass sucks!!!!!!!!!  I dont believe thats a matter of opinion either.  
ckr10 has A brand new innovative tech called push-pull drivers.  They 13 and each driver faces each other.  The bass is so deep that it feels like the floor is rumbling.  They don't taper and wont distort at all! This is real innovation.  Westone doesnt really have any really new tech.  Also ckr10 are hifi iem so you dont sacrifice treble.
 
I called Westone and asked was the w80 better than um pro 50 or other less expensive iems.  They refused to answer and said its totally subjective and I agree.  Again the westone iems are either hit or miss either you love them or hate them, but you won't find one reputable person who doesn't like the ckr9 or 10 or ath-e70.  
 
I dare you to listen to one of those iems and tell me they're not leaps and bounds better in the bass department than any westone iem!
 
http://amzn.to/2lyw5Pk
http://amzn.to/2lyQMKW

 

[BKG22]

  Lg v20 is my source which is more than good enough to test...
 
With or without v4a the bass sucks to me.  Although I'm not a basshead, there's other people in the w80 thread that says a basshead wouldn't like the bass.
 
Doesn't matter what songs I listen to.
 
I believe the drivers are too small to have an all around substantial bass impact.  Thats the trade off for a smaller size.  You can research driver size and bass, a ton of reputable sources will tell you size matters because of the ability to move air or something.  But consider 10 woofers vs 15.  Do you really believe a 10 can hit harder than a 15?
 
Comparing to the bass on the ath-e70 or the ckr10, the bass sucks!!!!!!!!!  I dont believe thats a matter of opinion either.  
ckr10 has A brand new innovative tech called push-pull drivers.  They 13 and each driver faces each other.  The bass is so deep that it feels like the floor is rumbling.  They don't taper and wont distort at all! This is real innovation.  Westone doesnt really have any really new tech.  Also ckr10 are hifi iem so you dont sacrifice treble.
 
I called Westone and asked was the w80 better than um pro 50 or other less expensive iems.  They refused to answer and said its totally subjective and I agree.  Again the westone iems are either hit or miss either you love them or hate them, but you won't find one reputable person who doesn't like the ckr9 or 10 or ath-e70.  
 
I dare you to listen to one of those iems and tell me they're not leaps and bounds better in the bass department than any westone iem!
 
http://amzn.to/2lyw5Pk
http://amzn.to/2lyQMKW

Thanks for your input ljnew. 
 
A couple of things to clear up for you though. The ES line does not use the same drivers as the UM line or the W line. When going full custom past the second bend you no longer need to account for canal resonance and insertion loss and you do need to account for other aspects of custom construction. 
 
Secondly, the W80 does share the same bass drivers as the W60 both of which will give you a flatter response. 
 
Those UM Pro 50's that you like, I love them too, but you should know that they were tuned specifically to be bass heavy. That is because they were developed for on stage monitoring for bass players and drummers who need more resolution in the low end. 
 
All in all we appreciate the message that we believe you are trying to say and that is that if you are a bass head then the W80, W60, and honestly the future ES80 is not for you. 
 
Appreciate the feedback!

 

[ljnew]

  Thanks for your input ljnew. 
 
A couple of things to clear up for you though. The ES line does not use the same drivers as the UM line or the W line. When going full custom past the second bend you no longer need to account for canal resonance and insertion loss and you do need to account for other aspects of custom construction. 
 
Secondly, the W80 does share the same bass drivers as the W60 both of which will give you a flatter response. 
 
Those UM Pro 50's that you like, I love them too, but you should know that they were tuned specifically to be bass heavy. That is because they were developed for on stage monitoring for bass players and drummers who need more resolution in the low end. 
 
All in all we appreciate the message that we believe you are trying to say and that is that if you are a bass head then the W80, W60, and honestly the future ES80 is not for you. 
 
Appreciate the feedback!

"A couple of things to clear up for you though. The ES line does not use the same drivers as the UM line or the W line. When going full custom past the second bend you no longer need to account for canal resonance and insertion loss and you do need to account for other aspects of custom construction"
 
The es line does use the same drivers as the um.  Um is universal version of the es.  What makes you think that's not the case? You drew the gun a little too fast on that one.
 
"Secondly, the W80 does share the same bass drivers as the W60 both of which will give you a flatter response. "
Flatter doesn't mean that it can't have deep bass.  Just check out the ath-e70.
 
"Those UM Pro 50's that you like, I love them too, but you should know that they were tuned specifically to be bass heavy. That is because they were developed for on stage monitoring for bass players and drummers who need more resolution in the low end. " 
 
I know, that's what I was trying to communicate.  They are supposed to be bass heavy, yet the less priced e70 and ckr10 bass is better.  E70 is a musician monitor.  Also, one of the most accurate iems on the market.  
 
Actually the um pro 50 is made to be more mid centric than bassy.  That's the unique selling proposition of the pro 50.

 

[BKG22]

  "A couple of things to clear up for you though. The ES line does not use the same drivers as the UM line or the W line. When going full custom past the second bend you no longer need to account for canal resonance and insertion loss and you do need to account for other aspects of custom construction"
 
The es line does use the same drivers as the um.  Um is universal version of the es.  What makes you think that's not the case? You drew the gun a little too fast on that one.
 
"Secondly, the W80 does share the same bass drivers as the W60 both of which will give you a flatter response. "
Flatter doesn't mean that it can't have deep bass.  Just check out the ath-e70.
 
"Those UM Pro 50's that you like, I love them too, but you should know that they were tuned specifically to be bass heavy. That is because they were developed for on stage monitoring for bass players and drummers who need more resolution in the low end. " 
 
I know, that's what I was trying to communicate.  They are supposed to be bass heavy, yet the less priced e70 and ckr10 bass is better.  E70 is a musician monitor.  Also, one of the most accurate iems on the market.  

To clear some things up further. I am the director of Product and Marketing at Westone. I oversee all product development and maintain the relationship with all of our vendors.
 
So to that end you can believe me when I say that the ES line and UM line don't share the same drivers. There are differences in the materials used in the build as well as the crossovers and tuning of the drivers are different. My apologies if you were mistaken on this fact. 
 
I personally have never listened to the ath-e70. I will have to get a pair and give it a listen so I am not in a place to respond to that. 
 
Lastly, in regards to the your last comment, yes we could make the UM50 more bass heavy but this would not go with the sound and judgement our head engineer (who invented the BA IEM, has been here for 37 years, and is a musician himself) has decided is best for musicians. 
 
All in all, we appreciate your feedback and are happy that you like the Um Pro 50. No IEM is right for everyone and we strive to produce the best sounding IEMs possible. Some think we do, others do not but that does not deter us from striving for excellence. 

 

[justrest]

@BKG22 Hi there, I am planning to buy UM Pro30 again (I used before) but I've some concern about the MMCX sockets. Did you fix the problem?

 

[BKG22]

  @BKG22 Hi there, I am planning to buy UM Pro30 again (I used before) but I've some concern about the MMCX sockets. Did you fix the problem?

We absolutely have fixed the MMCX issues of all of the UM models. 
 
The newest connector that we use is built to much tighter tolerances with other proprietary updates to it. These were implemented in the UM Pro 30 around early 2016. Since then, our returns on units with the new MMCX have dropped by over 97%. We are very excited for the results that we have seen with this update. 

 

[ljnew]

  To clear some things up further. I am the director of Product and Marketing at Westone. I oversee all product development and maintain the relationship with all of our vendors.
 
So to that end you can believe me when I say that the ES line and UM line don't share the same drivers. There are differences in the materials used in the build as well as the crossovers and tuning of the drivers are different. My apologies if you were mistaken on this fact. 
 
I personally have never listened to the ath-e70. I will have to get a pair and give it a listen so I am not in a place to respond to that. 
 
Lastly, in regards to the your last comment, yes we could make the UM50 more bass heavy but this would not go with the sound and judgement our head engineer (who invented the BA IEM, has been here for 37 years, and is a musician himself) has decided is best for musicians. 
 
All in all, we appreciate your feedback and are happy that you like the Um Pro 50. No IEM is right for everyone and we strive to produce the best sounding IEMs possible. Some think we do, others do not but that does not deter us from striving for excellence. 

Whaaaaaaaat???!!!!!
 
 I purchased the um pro 50 instead of the es50 because your company said they are exactly the same.... on tape.
 
I need a make good then because your company has a video out saying something entirely different from what your saying!!!!!
 
I was drastically misinformed!!!!!!   here's exactly what was said:
 
3:44 "we have a bump in the mid drivers"
:43 "everything is the same as our elite series custom in ear monitors"
 
Here's a link to the video:
 
I dont mean to throw anyone under the bus but What:
 

 

[ljnew]

  "A couple of things to clear up for you though. The ES line does not use the same drivers as the UM line or the W line. When going full custom past the second bend you no longer need to account for canal resonance and insertion loss and you do need to account for other aspects of custom construction"
 
The es line does use the same drivers as the um.  Um is universal version of the es.  What makes you think that's not the case? You drew the gun a little too fast on that one.
 
"Secondly, the W80 does share the same bass drivers as the W60 both of which will give you a flatter response. "
Flatter doesn't mean that it can't have deep bass.  Just check out the ath-e70.
 
"Those UM Pro 50's that you like, I love them too, but you should know that they were tuned specifically to be bass heavy. That is because they were developed for on stage monitoring for bass players and drummers who need more resolution in the low end. " 
 
I know, that's what I was trying to communicate.  They are supposed to be bass heavy, yet the less priced e70 and ckr10 bass is better.  E70 is a musician monitor.  Also, one of the most accurate iems on the market.  

 

  To clear some things up further. I am the director of Product and Marketing at Westone. I oversee all product development and maintain the relationship with all of our vendors.
 
So to that end you can believe me when I say that the ES line and UM line don't share the same drivers. There are differences in the materials used in the build as well as the crossovers and tuning of the drivers are different. My apologies if you were mistaken on this fact. 
 
I personally have never listened to the ath-e70. I will have to get a pair and give it a listen so I am not in a place to respond to that. 
 
Lastly, in regards to the your last comment, yes we could make the UM50 more bass heavy but this would not go with the sound and judgement our head engineer (who invented the BA IEM, has been here for 37 years, and is a musician himself) has decided is best for musicians. 
 
All in all, we appreciate your feedback and are happy that you like the Um Pro 50. No IEM is right for everyone and we strive to produce the best sounding IEMs possible. Some think we do, others do not but that does not deter us from striving for excellence. 

"Lastly, in regards to the your last comment, yes we could make the UM50 more bass heavy but this would not go with the sound and judgement our head engineer (who invented the BA IEM, has been here for 37 years, and is a musician himself) has decided is best for musicians. "
 
Not more bass heavy, just better or more accurate like e70 or ckr10

 

[BKG22]

  Whaaaaaaaat???!!!!!
 
 I purchased the um pro 50 instead of the es50 because your company said they are exactly the same.... on tape.
 
I need a make good then because your company has a video out saying something entirely different from what your saying!!!!!
 
I was drastically misinformed!!!!!!   here's exactly what was said:
 
3:44 "we have a bump in the mid drivers"
:43 "everything is the same as our elite series custom in ear monitors"
 
Here's a link to the video:
 
I dont mean to throw anyone under the bus but What:
 

This sales person is not accurate and he will be counseled and we will be letting full compass know. 
 
They are similar to each other and the UM does give a good representation of the ES series but they are not the same drivers/crossovers/tuning. I just talked to the head engineer and he did tell me that the ES50 does not have more bass than the UM50 and that the tuning is different because of head space, tubing, canal resonance and other factors. He let me know that the tuning that Westone has, and has had for over 30 years, is because that is where he feels is the proper balance of bass, mids, and treble and we do not plan to move away from that. 
 
We apologize for this misinformation but can also ensure you that you would not have gotten more bass going to custom. 

 

[sweetbabala]

"Dont mean to be a hater, but to me the w80 is an overpriced glorified piece of plastic. And the bass is just awful when compared to some other iems."

I don't know that those statements make you a "hater," but you sure don't speak in riddles, either. LOL. I assume you have first-hand experience with them?

Ryan

 

[BKG22]

"Dont mean to be a hater, but to me the w80 is an overpriced glorified piece of plastic. And the bass is just awful when compared to some other iems."

I don't know that those statements make you a "hater," but you sure don't speak in riddles, either. LOL. I assume you have first-hand experience with them?

Ryan

In Westone's defense, I believe calling it an overpriced glorified piece of plastic is completely inaccurate. We do have over 7 different types of metals built into it as well as silicone and foam tips. So there is a lot more materials that should be called out rather than just calling out the plastic...

 

[twister6]

@ljnew : I know it's UM Pro series thread where lately UMPro50 discussion has been a hot topic, but since you made quite a bold statement about W80 having "awful" bass and brought up ATH-CKR10, let me stay on the topic of your statement to discuss it further

 
Do I know CKR10?  I was one of the first reviewers who introduced head-fiers to CKR9 and CKR10 in my write up over 2 years ago.  So, I'm quite familiar with it

 

 
We all hear things differently and have our own personal preference.  Just because one person likes one pair of IEMs over the other, doesn't mean it makes one superior or better.  It's just that, a personal preference.  And every manufacturer tunes their product differently.  Sometimes it has to do with limitation of the drivers, while in many cases it has to do with a vision of sound engineer behind the product line and how he/she interprets the sound, thus choosing the right building "driver" blocks and cross-over cut-offs to get to the final tuning.  And just because you think the bass is "awful", it's your personal opinion based on your personal preference.
 
Look at this quick measurement chart between W80 and CKR10 (Veritas raw data, and my setup is not fully calibrated, but sufficient for relative comparison).  Green - W80 FR, Red - CRK10 FR.
 

 
W80 has actually a stronger mid-bass, but overall a more balanced tuning.  CKR10 mid-bass doesn't have as strong punch, but it has a deeper sub-bass extension (Veritas can't capture accurately below 50Hz, but I hear CKR10 having a deeper sub-bass rumble).  The big contrast here is valley in CKR10 lower mids and peaks in upper mids which makes signature almost mid-forward and has more contrast between the bass and the upper mids due to scooped out lower mids.  An evenly tuned W80 with fuller body lower mids will give you a more coherent signature with a smoother flow from bass to mids where bass has a different definition in comparison to CKR10.
 
So, regardless of if you have 8-BAs and the size of its bass drivers you still get a nice low end punch, or if you have 2-dynamic drivers in push-pull config with a carved FR to separate bass from the upper mids - you are just looking at two different sound signatures, two different types of drivers, two different technologies, and two different ways of tuning the drivers where some people will prefer one vs the other.  Doesn't make one better than the other, just makes it appeals to different people.
 
Not sure if you purchased and returned back W80, or just demoed it somewhere else, and/or how much burn in it had since Ken's Ref8 cable does improve after about 100hrs of burn in, but either way it sounds like W80 is not your cup of tea.  That's all.  Enjoy CKR10.

 

[sweetbabala]

In Westone's defense, I believe calling it an overpriced glorified piece of plastic is completely inaccurate. We do have over 7 different types of metals built into it as well as silicone and foam tips. So there is a lot more materials that should be called out rather than just calling out the plastic...

 


Kudos to you, BKG22, for taking the time to clarify a few things, and doing so in a rational, well-spoken manner. I own a few Westone IEMs, and really enjoy their sound and comfort. Any plans for a UM Pro 60 or 80? If not, I will continue to save for the W80 model.

Thanks,
Ryan