[coolhand]

  I have to say as bass iems they sure dont compare to the less expensive ckr10 or ath-e70.  I think Westone could do better in this department.  It's really hard trying to tolerate the bass after listening to Audio Technica even though im a fan of um pro 50.
 

Well there you go.. as I mentioned previously, there's just no accounting for personal taste !
 
As yet I haven't heard the ath-e70 so I can't offer an opinion regarding their sound, but find the UMPro 50 to deliver sublimely rendered subterranean bass performance when driven from the Chord Hugo for example. In my ears I prefer the largest size Star Tips for absolute bass power or alternatively Shure Olives for a tad less lower end balance, tried SpinFits and although very comfortable they're made from a thinner silicone which provides a less rigid seal and as such I found bass rolled off much more than I prefer.
 
Conversely to your take on the ath-e70 bass performance, I found this review of them online:
 
http://www.churchproduction.com/story/main/first-look-audio-technica-ath-e70-professional-in-ear-monitor
 
Upon fitting the ATH-E70 monitors and listening to some standard recorded material, my immediate thought was that they are very bright. This may be exactly what the designers wanted for cutting through boomy or muddy stage wash, but it is quite pronounced.
 
Because of this powerful mid- and upper-frequency response, I would see the ATH-E70 as ideal for singers, guitar players, or even drummers, with one potentially important caveat. More on that later. One would not miss the slightest nuance or detail when monitoring mids and highs with the ATH-E70. The clarity that they reveal in the bowed string on a violin is uncanny, not to mention how they reproduce cymbals. I’ve never heard cymbals sparkle like they do with the ATH-E70. Playing back music I’ve listened to for years revealed details I had missed with other monitoring systems.
 
On the other end of the spectrum, the ATH-E70’s bass response sounds suppressed. It’s as if everything below 150 Hz has been rolled off with a high-pass filter. This may be to protect the drivers for longevity, or perhaps to install a greater sense of mid-range clarity. I think the explanation is simply that the ATH-E70, like most universal-fit ear buds, has a rather weak low-frequency response. That’s not to say that you can’t dial in all the lows you want with EQ, they just don’t naturally reproduce the lows the way custom-molded ear buds do. As stated above, if you’re a singer, a guitarist, or a drummer who can do without hearing a lot of kick drum or the low end of the bass guitar, the ATH-E70 sounds excellent. If you want to shore up the low frequencies, you’ll need to add EQ.

 

[ljnew]

  Well there you go.. as I mentioned previously, there's just no accounting for personal taste !
 
As yet I haven't heard the ath-e70 so I can't offer an opinion regarding their sound, but find the UMPro 50 to deliver sublimely rendered subterranean bass performance when driven from the Chord Hugo for example. In my ears I prefer the largest size Star Tips for absolute bass power or alternatively Shure Olives for a tad less lower end balance, tried SpinFits and although very comfortable they're made from a thinner silicone which provides a less rigid seal and as such I found bass rolled off much more than I prefer.
 
Conversely to your take on the ath-e70 bass performance, I found this review of them online:
 
http://www.churchproduction.com/story/main/first-look-audio-technica-ath-e70-professional-in-ear-monitor
 
Upon fitting the ATH-E70 monitors and listening to some standard recorded material, my immediate thought was that they are very bright. This may be exactly what the designers wanted for cutting through boomy or muddy stage wash, but it is quite pronounced.
 
Because of this powerful mid- and upper-frequency response, I would see the ATH-E70 as ideal for singers, guitar players, or even drummers, with one potentially important caveat. More on that later. One would not miss the slightest nuance or detail when monitoring mids and highs with the ATH-E70. The clarity that they reveal in the bowed string on a violin is uncanny, not to mention how they reproduce cymbals. I’ve never heard cymbals sparkle like they do with the ATH-E70. Playing back music I’ve listened to for years revealed details I had missed with other monitoring systems.
 
On the other end of the spectrum, the ATH-E70’s bass response sounds suppressed. It’s as if everything below 150 Hz has been rolled off with a high-pass filter. This may be to protect the drivers for longevity, or perhaps to install a greater sense of mid-range clarity. I think the explanation is simply that the ATH-E70, like most universal-fit ear buds, has a rather weak low-frequency response. That’s not to say that you can’t dial in all the lows you want with EQ, they just don’t naturally reproduce the lows the way custom-molded ear buds do. As stated above, if you’re a singer, a guitarist, or a drummer who can do without hearing a lot of kick drum or the low end of the bass guitar, the ATH-E70 sounds excellent. If you want to shore up the low frequencies, you’ll need to add EQ.

Your point?
 
I know everyone has a different opinion and I gave you mine.  But remember, I'm not the only one on here who said the ath-e70 bass is better than the w80.
 
Do you know what type of equipment he was using?  I highligted some of the other pieces of the article that you "forgot" to add.
 
The thing is the e70 reproduces exactly what you give it.  So if you're playing a song that doesn't have bass or suppressed bass it will replicate that sound.
 
I could almost garantee if he listened with a song that was bassy, he would've called them muddy.  Thing is they reproduce extremely well and not a lot of people are familiar with this level of reproduction.  So he didn't know to try a bassy song for the review.
 
The other thing the people who received their iem for free is forgetting to mention is the cost.  
 
There is no way that a $100 or $399 iem should on any stretch of the imagination on any frequency compete with an iem that costs $1400.  Period! That's something thats hard to defend!

 

[ljnew]

  @ljnew : I know it's UM Pro series thread where lately UMPro50 discussion has been a hot topic, but since you made quite a bold statement about W80 having "awful" bass and brought up ATH-CKR10, let me stay on the topic of your statement to discuss it further

 
Do I know CKR10?  I was one of the first reviewers who introduced head-fiers to CKR9 and CKR10 in my write up over 2 years ago.  So, I'm quite familiar with it

 

 
We all hear things differently and have our own personal preference.  Just because one person likes one pair of IEMs over the other, doesn't mean it makes one superior or better.  It's just that, a personal preference.  And every manufacturer tunes their product differently.  Sometimes it has to do with limitation of the drivers, while in many cases it has to do with a vision of sound engineer behind the product line and how he/she interprets the sound, thus choosing the right building "driver" blocks and cross-over cut-offs to get to the final tuning.  And just because you think the bass is "awful", it's your personal opinion based on your personal preference.
 
Look at this quick measurement chart between W80 and CKR10 (Veritas raw data, and my setup is not fully calibrated, but sufficient for relative comparison).  Green - W80 FR, Red - CRK10 FR.
 

 
W80 has actually a stronger mid-bass, but overall a more balanced tuning.  CKR10 mid-bass doesn't have as strong punch, but it has a deeper sub-bass extension (Veritas can't capture accurately below 50Hz, but I hear CKR10 having a deeper sub-bass rumble).  The big contrast here is valley in CKR10 lower mids and peaks in upper mids which makes signature almost mid-forward and has more contrast between the bass and the upper mids due to scooped out lower mids.  An evenly tuned W80 with fuller body lower mids will give you a more coherent signature with a smoother flow from bass to mids where bass has a different definition in comparison to CKR10.
 
So, regardless of if you have 8-BAs and the size of its bass drivers you still get a nice low end punch, or if you have 2-dynamic drivers in push-pull config with a carved FR to separate bass from the upper mids - you are just looking at two different sound signatures, two different types of drivers, two different technologies, and two different ways of tuning the drivers where some people will prefer one vs the other.  Doesn't make one better than the other, just makes it appeals to different people.
 
Not sure if you purchased and returned back W80, or just demoed it somewhere else, and/or how much burn in it had since Ken's Ref8 cable does improve after about 100hrs of burn in, but either way it sounds like W80 is not your cup of tea.  That's all.  Enjoy CKR10.

A frequency response graph is almost just as useful as reading the specs. I could just as easily say that according to Audio-Technica the bass response and the high response is somewhere like 5-45 ohms.  But hearing is believing.  
 
There's multiple pieces of software that says there's no audible difference between flac and mp3 which is why we can't really rely on software to tell you how you would like something in practice.
 
A nice low end punch ok but bass heads and treble heads will like the ckr9/10.  Bass head prob wont like w80.  
 
Of course some people will like the w80, but I really doubt they would prefer them over the ath-e70 with the right equipment. imho
 
Also, I prefer the um pro 50 to the w80.  
 
You never said which one YOU prefer in the bass department?

 

[twister6]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Quote:

  @ljnew : I know it's UM Pro series thread where lately UMPro50 discussion has been a hot topic, but since you made quite a bold statement about W80 having "awful" bass and brought up ATH-CKR10, let me stay on the topic of your statement to discuss it further

 
Do I know CKR10?  I was one of the first reviewers who introduced head-fiers to CKR9 and CKR10 in my write up over 2 years ago.  So, I'm quite familiar with it

 

 
We all hear things differently and have our own personal preference.  Just because one person likes one pair of IEMs over the other, doesn't mean it makes one superior or better.  It's just that, a personal preference.  And every manufacturer tunes their product differently.  Sometimes it has to do with limitation of the drivers, while in many cases it has to do with a vision of sound engineer behind the product line and how he/she interprets the sound, thus choosing the right building "driver" blocks and cross-over cut-offs to get to the final tuning.  And just because you think the bass is "awful", it's your personal opinion based on your personal preference.
 
Look at this quick measurement chart between W80 and CKR10 (Veritas raw data, and my setup is not fully calibrated, but sufficient for relative comparison).  Green - W80 FR, Red - CRK10 FR.
 

 
W80 has actually a stronger mid-bass, but overall a more balanced tuning.  CKR10 mid-bass doesn't have as strong punch, but it has a deeper sub-bass extension (Veritas can't capture accurately below 50Hz, but I hear CKR10 having a deeper sub-bass rumble).  The big contrast here is valley in CKR10 lower mids and peaks in upper mids which makes signature almost mid-forward and has more contrast between the bass and the upper mids due to scooped out lower mids.  An evenly tuned W80 with fuller body lower mids will give you a more coherent signature with a smoother flow from bass to mids where bass has a different definition in comparison to CKR10.
 
So, regardless of if you have 8-BAs and the size of its bass drivers you still get a nice low end punch, or if you have 2-dynamic drivers in push-pull config with a carved FR to separate bass from the upper mids - you are just looking at two different sound signatures, two different types of drivers, two different technologies, and two different ways of tuning the drivers where some people will prefer one vs the other.  Doesn't make one better than the other, just makes it appeals to different people.
 
Not sure if you purchased and returned back W80, or just demoed it somewhere else, and/or how much burn in it had since Ken's Ref8 cable does improve after about 100hrs of burn in, but either way it sounds like W80 is not your cup of tea.  That's all.  Enjoy CKR10.

 

A frequency response graph is almost just as useful as reading the specs. I could just as easily say that according to Audio-Technica the bass response and the high response is somewhere like 5-45 ohms.  But hearing is believing.  
 
There's multiple pieces of software that says there's no audible difference between flac and mp3 which is why we can't really rely on software to tell you how you would like something in practice.
 
A nice low end punch ok but bass heads and treble heads will like the ckr9/10.  Bass head prob wont like w80.  
 
Of course some people will like the w80, but I really doubt they would prefer them over the ath-e70 with the right equipment. imho
 
Also, I prefer the um pro 50 to the w80.  
 
You never said which one YOU prefer in the bass department?

 
I included FR to compliment my subjective opinion of how I hear it with a more objective measurements of how the sound "looks", and it's not just for your benefits but others who are reading this thread

 
I still fail to understand the point of your "W80 has an awful bass" statement in UM Pro thread, besides you already made it clear in the past that you prefer E70 bass (biased opinion?).  I actually stopped by Audio Technica table during CanJam NYC to see if I can listen to E70, but they only had one pair of iems and it wasn't e70.  So, when you mentioned CKR10 which I'm quite familiar with, I told you how I hear and how it measures against W80.  And @coolhand above quoted another review of e70 where the person thought e70 has bass shelfed off below 150Hz (just a different perspective from some other review, and who knows, maybe that reviewer had a loose eartip seal, etc or maybe they are right on the money).
 
In terms of the bass department, I prefer impact over extension.  Based on other IEMs I had in my possession when I reviewed CKR10 a few years ago - I really liked its bass, but I have reviewed probably 30-40 more IEMs after that and based on everything I heard up until now I prefer W80 bass with Ref8 cable, while CKR10 has a more mid-forward signature where upper mids (vocals region) overpowers the bass.  Meaning, I raise the volume to improve the impact of the bass, which gives me more sub-bass but at the same time upper mids go up too, over powering and drowning the impact of the mid-bass punch.  That's how I hear it, irrelevant of what FR shows to me.

 

[ljnew]

   
I included FR to compliment my subjective opinion of how I hear it with a more objective measurements of how the sound "looks", and it's not just for your benefits but others who are reading this thread

 
I still fail to understand the point of your "W80 has an awful bass" statement in UM Pro thread, besides you already made it clear in the past that you prefer E70 bass (biased opinion?).  I actually stopped by Audio Technica table during CanJam NYC to see if I can listen to E70, but they only had one pair of iems and it wasn't e70.  So, when you mentioned CKR10 which I'm quite familiar with, I told you how I hear and how it measures against W80.  And @coolhand above quoted another review of e70 where the person thought e70 has bass shelfed off below 150Hz (just a different perspective from some other review, and who knows, maybe that reviewer had a loose eartip seal, etc or maybe they are right on the money).
 
In terms of the bass department, I prefer impact over extension.  Based on other IEMs I had in my possession when I reviewed CKR10 a few years ago - I really liked its bass, but I have reviewed probably 30-40 more IEMs after that and based on everything I heard up until now I prefer W80 bass with Ref8 cable, while CKR10 has a more mid-forward signature where upper mids (vocals region) overpowers the bass.  Meaning, I raise the volume to improve the impact of the bass, which gives me more sub-bass but at the same time upper mids go up too, over powering and drowning the impact of the mid-bass punch.  That's how I hear it, irrelevant of what FR shows to me.

....
 
Waiting for your e70 review

 

[ljnew]

If you think that we all hear sound from IEMs differently, so what is the point of describing them when you know for sure most people or everyone else will hear it differently as you do? It will actually be very misleading. 

$$$ 

 

[elfary]

As i was one of Westone customers who had issues in the past (mainly with the mmcx connection) i must say that since Westone updated their mmcx cable it's being nothing but a smooth sail.

Having had a set of Pro 50s i don't recall having seen a single case of shells coming apart.

In any case whenever i have had issues Westone / Variphone have always sorted them out very quickly and at no cost (Even out of warranty).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilcg1]

In Westone's defense, I believe calling it an overpriced glorified piece of plastic is completely inaccurate. We do have over 7 different types of metals built into it as well as silicone and foam tips. So there is a lot more materials that should be called out rather than just calling out the plastic...

 


Kudos to you, BKG22, for taking the time to clarify a few things, and doing so in a rational, well-spoken manner. I own a few Westone IEMs, and really enjoy their sound and comfort. Any plans for a UM Pro 60 or 80? If not, I will continue to save for the W80 model.

Thanks,
Ryan

I'll be interested in UMPro 60 or 80 as well - very happy with my UMPro 50 though. Actually, comfort wise they are incredible - I can wear them entire day and my ears are happy.

In a recent meet I had a chance to listen to campfire audio andromeda and while it sounded probably a hair better soundstage wise and extended a bit deeper in a bass (I haven't spent a lot of time with them, probably like 20 minutes and that was enough for me to understand that it is not as big on an upgrade from my IEM) the fit and comfort were horrible. Couldn't stand that heavy piece of metal in my ears.

Andromeda was the only IEM other than my UMPro I was seriously considering. Having UMPro 50 I have a feeling hat spending 2-3 times it's price on other manufacturers' IEMs I won't get even 5% increase in SQ and will lose Westone's fantastic fit and comfort.

 

[BKG22]

No plan for a UM 60 or 80 and I'm glad you noticed a difference with the mmcx connector!

 

[justrest]

I just ordered Um Pro50. I am so excited.

 

[Gosod]

you take too long to discuss these headphones. I listened to from a friend and he says that w50 is better than the um pro50!

 

[twister6]

  you take too long to discuss these headphones. I listened to from a friend and he says that w50 is better than the um pro50!

 
and just like that, my buddy Gosod is back with another round of rapid posts in dozens of threads

 

[pacman46]

and just like that, my buddy Gosod is back with another round of rapid posts in dozens of threads

Ya wow I was just thinking the same thing lol

 

[damobananna]

constantly glueing my umpro 50's back together

 

[damobananna]

Has anybody tried the umpro 50 with a reference 8 cable ?? or pure silver? has anybody tried the lyra ii? please chime in at will . ta