[Terminus Est]

I'm currently serving in the Air Force in Germany and posted about the $650 deal a couple of pages back. Westone is an Air Force contractor for pilot hearing protection and communication devices, so they allow military members to get recreational products at cost. I'm an air traffic controller and will be getting some custom headset earpieces as well!

 

[qusp]

cost...$650 cost for ES3X hmmm.... that would go against every retail rule in the book. maybe cost to the audiologist but no way could westone stay afloat if each set of earpieces cost them $650 to make. i'm not saying they are ripping people; just that they would be following a model that most retailers do, and that doesnt include only making 30% profit as a manufacturer. they have R&D to cover, advertising etc etc. since Westoe are generally pretty reasonably priced I would think they make slightly below the norm, but not THAT far below the norm

 

[Blutarsky]

Thanks, I do think the JH13 Pro excel in the bass; tight, fast, very low, dynamic - maybe perfect. I do think all three do things well but really wanted to focus on the differences for those trying to make a decision between the three. My bottom line is really just my opinion given my preference and short time with all three.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Blutarsky, thanks for your impressions, which are perhaps the most comprehensive to date re the three top tier IEMs. Good caveat re the fit, and that may have something to do with the SQ. It's interesting to me that some are finding these differences, just that, differences. There may indeed be areas that the JH13's excel at, and we'll be interested to read HPA's more exhaustive review. My thoughts re the JH13 thread is that it sounds and resembles the ES3X thread. Like twylight said, "There are some seriously strong statements in this thread..."

 

[Blutarsky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad you pushed 'im Larry. I agree that more posts will flesh out a better picture of the characteristics of these top tier IEMs. Bluto's got a discerning ear, that's apparent. I was, maybe, leaving some leeway for additional comments I knew would come. I'm not sure if the folks in the JH thread are following the ES3X thread, but passion is abounding, much as it is here! However, nothing I've read so far has moved me onto the diving board. Reading between the lines in some of the posts, there seems to be a hint of reservation re the midrange. I think the folks at Westone get a lot of input from musicians, which probably explains their continued success. Interestingly, my loudspeakers were designed by a musician (with an engineering background) as well.

Yeah, the other thing I forgot to mention is that I listen to my speakers a lot as well - they are FE206E backloaded horns in a custom cabinet (built by a musician) driven now by my brand new ZDT. I find the ES3X is very compatible/complimentary with that pairing as well.

 

[Terminus Est]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif cost...$650 cost for ES3X hmmm.... that would go against every retail rule in the book. maybe cost to the audiologist but no way could westone stay afloat if each set of earpieces cost them $650 to make. i'm not saying they are ripping people; just that they would be following a model that most retailers do, and that doesnt include only making 30% profit as a manufacturer. they have R&D to cover, advertising etc etc. since Westoe are generally pretty reasonably priced I would think they make slightly below the norm, but not THAT far below the norm

Yeah it's actually dealer cost!

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blutarsky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, the other thing I forgot to mention is that I listen to my speakers a lot as well - they are FE206E backloaded horns in a custom cabinet (built by a musician) driven now by my brand new ZDT. I find the ES3X is very compatible/complimentary with that pairing as well.

Bluto, I haven't had the opportunity to hear the Fostex, but everything I read is positive. And the ZDT should be a good match. I'm actually selling off my "other" gear and was considering even more simplification (originally sporting Quicksilver mono blocks, preamp, etc.). What with all the synergies between interfaces, it was just too complex, and I was tweaking all the time. I downsized, opting for a good quality integrated, CDP and the Merlins. I didn't miss the big rig at all! The Merlins, on the other hand, I'm definitely gonna miss.

However, something along the lines that you are working with sounds very appealing now-a-days. The ZDT has enough current and voltage for phones and speakers. Nice! (I was looking at the ZDT as well, but the 6H30 kinda drew my attention since a friend of mine has all LAMM gear in his big rig. The 6H30 driver is an amazing little wonder when properly implemented, which I think Donald over at DNA seems to have done.)

Looks like your little 3-way impressions review has created some heated discourse in the JH thread! I think you've already been blacklisted.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bluto, I haven't had the opportunity to hear the Fostex, but everything I read is positive. And the ZDT should be a good match. I'm actually selling off my "other" gear and was considering even more simplification (originally sporting Quicksilver mono blocks, preamp, etc.). What with all the synergies between interfaces, it was just too complex, and I was tweaking all the time. I downsized, opting for a good quality integrated, CDP and the Merlins. I didn't miss the big rig at all! The Merlins, on the other hand, I'm definitely gonna miss. However, something along the lines that you are working with sounds very appealing now-a-days. The ZDT has enough current and voltage for phones and speakers. Nice! (I was looking at the ZDT as well, but the 6H30 kinda drew my attention since a friend of mine has all LAMM gear in his big rig. The 6H30 driver is an amazing little wonder when properly implemented, which I think Donald over at DNA seems to have done.) Looks like your little 3-way impressions review has created some heated discourse in the JH thread! I think you've already been blacklisted.

The Fostex and ZDT is indeed a good match. I like the sound. My personal speakers are the Polk SDA CRS that I bought in 1985 or 1986. Mine require a great deal more power and are pickier about placement in terms of both walls and ceiling/floor height.

His Fostex horns do remind me of the ES3X sound a bit as well, rich forward mids and not lacking in bass or treble, without an excess anywhere either.

 

[Bilavideo]

Westone rules!

 

[Blutarsky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like your little 3-way impressions review has created some heated discourse in the JH thread! I think you've already been blacklisted.

Ah I think I''ll be okay, I call em as I hear em. This just really comes down to individual preference, bias and synergy. I've got no need to be right for anyone but me. If I really thought differently I could scrape the cash up for the JH13s and Bob's your uncle. Heck, HPA once told me nobody cares what I think anyway

so the pressure is really all on him. If I draw a little fire for now that's fine!

A couple years ago I almost bought the UE11 Pro, the only thing that stopped me was the San Diego wildfires, I-5 was closed N of Camp Pendleton. As I was bemoaning my inability to get to Irvine another headfier who I haven't seen around here for awhile talked me out of making another attempt. He had ES2s (like me) and had purchased the UE11 Pro. He told me offline to save my money. I always wondered if I made the right decision. After hearing them I feel like I did. However, at the time, if I would have heard them only relative to me ES2s - I would have been very happy with the UE11 Pro - until now.

The point I'm trying to make is unless you hear all three and know what you value in terms of signature - its impossible to know how great "great" is. Once you hear all three; great will depend upon your preference (bias) and gear synergy.

For me and my preference, bias and current gear synergy, the ES3X is the greatest of the greats. If after one listens to the JH-13 Pro for a longer time period than I was recently able to listen to them, they begin to become very immersive and as involving as the ES3X - thats awesome. In my experience, that rarely happens for me. Even if it were possible, and anything certainly is - its just not going to be a big enough draw for me. Nothing against anyone who feels otherwise and frankly I could be wrong

.

BTW, I'm not sure who mentioned this but I love Chopin's Nocturnes -#17 in B is my current favorite.

 

[gilency]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminus Est /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm currently serving in the Air Force in Germany and posted about the $650 deal a couple of pages back. Westone is an Air Force contractor for pilot hearing protection and communication devices, so they allow military members to get recreational products at cost. I'm an air traffic controller and will be getting some custom headset earpieces as well!

That is great! Enjoy the music.

 

[music_4321]

On the subject of individual preferences and bias -- and I know this will likely make me even less popular (not that I was very popular in the first place) -- one thing that really makes me cringe (to put it mildly) and is a bit of a turn-off for me about the JH13 (or any other product, for that matter) is the slogan "We call it the JH13 Pro. You'll call it aural sex". That combined with a sleek website, along the lines of the UE website puts me off. I've turned into a bit of an old fart in the last 15 years or so in certain aspects of my life, I'm happy to say and so, I much prefer the much more sober looking Westone website.

Sex references and the never ending search to be/ appear 'cool' in so many aspects of modern life are just a big turn-off for me. And, no, I'm not prudish, but that slogan rather than being cool I find it cheap and lacking in taste. Also, the aural sex reference has such a macho ring to it. I suppose you could say the slogan is also cool for women - frankly, I doubt it.

I never liked the name Ultimate Ears either - again, for me, just another 'clever' reference to the 'ultimate', 'latest', 'coolest'. I'd rather go to a small club like the Marquee in the good old days in London and see a good promising rock band, or a small jazz club, or a small venue with a good & genuine string quartet - probably made up of youngish players - than have free tickets & best seats in the house to the latest U2, Madonna, (what would've likely been the latest) Michael Jackson shows in London or and even, perhaps, the very Berlin/ Vienna Philharmonic Orchestras. Though for the latter I'd accept the tickets and just try to cope with some of the pompous behaviour often found in audiences & musicians alike when such orchestras perform.

 

[gilency]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blutarsky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah I think I''ll be okay, I call em as I hear em. This just really comes down to individual preference, bias and synergy. I've got no need to be right for anyone but me. If I really thought differently I could scrape the cash up for the JH13s and Bob's your uncle. Heck, HPA once told me nobody cares what I think anyway so the pressure is really all on him. If I draw a little fire for now that's fine! A couple years ago I almost bought the UE11 Pro, the only thing that stopped me was the San Diego wildfires, I-5 was closed N of Camp Pendleton. As I was bemoaning my inability to get to Irvine another headfier who I haven't seen around here for awhile talked me out of making another attempt. He had ES2s (like me) and had purchased the UE11 Pro. He told me offline to save my money. I always wondered if I made the right decision. After hearing them I feel like I did. However, at the time, if I would have heard them only relative to me ES2s - I would have been very happy with the UE11 Pro - until now. The point I'm trying to make is unless you hear all three and know what you value in terms of signature - its impossible to know how great "great" is. Once you hear all three; great will depend upon your preference (bias) and gear synergy. For me and my preference, bias and current gear synergy, the ES3X is the greatest of the greats. If after one listens to the JH-13 Pro for a longer time period than I was recently able to listen to them, they begin to become very immersive and as involving as the ES3X - thats awesome. In my experience, that rarely happens for me. Even if it were possible, and anything certainly is - its just not going to be a big enough draw for me. Nothing against anyone who feels otherwise and frankly I could be wrong . BTW, I'm not sure who mentioned this but I love Chopin's Nocturnes -#17 in B is my current favorite.

I mentioned Chopin a few posts above this one. I am delighted to find fellow headfiers with similar taste.
And I found your controversial post very informative. Cheers to freedom of expression the critics be da**ed!

 

[FYJX]

$650 can not be the manufacturing cost of the ES3X..that's simply not possible. I would say they are just offering the products at a discounted price for the Air Force, but they are still making more than decent profit off of you guys.

 

[Blutarsky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif I mentioned Chopin a few posts above this one. I am delighted to find fellow headfiers with similar taste. And I found your controversial post very informative. Cheers to freedom of expression the critics be da**ed!

Hey thanks, I wandered over to the JHP thread and was standing there for a minute at the back of the crowd thinking; "geez look at all the pitchforks, somebody's in trouble".

Thanks to those who came to my defense, (with pictures no less) and anyone else who actually read what I wrote.

 

[Blutarsky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaoDi /img/forum/go_quote.gif $650 can not be the manufacturing cost of the ES3X..that's simply not possible. I would say they are just offering the products at a discounted price for the Air Force, but they are still making more than decent profit off of you guys.

I know that the interest in finding the cost price point is what is spurring the discussion over cost vs retail so please -I mean no offense to anyone. (what a day I'm having on HF)

But I have to say - when you've been banged around as much as our vets have over the years - you learn to appreciate any company who shows you some love. You certainly don't quibble over semantics because it reeks of ingratitude. I'd say a couple hundred off a flagship product is a pretty nice thank you.

Good on ya Westone and thanks for serving Terminus Est.