[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif A W3' with no sibilance is tough to imagine from my point. Unless I failed to clearly make the statement, I don't think its a "problem" I think its just part of the sound sig of the W3's. Try Marc Cohn's Join the Parade, there should be a sample from itunes (but listen to the studio recorded version, not the live versions, I think its just the recording). IF you dont get any sibilance, then something is weird because I get sibilance from that song using my hd650's, etys, and when I used the shures. Or atleast try Matchbox 20's long day. And if you still don't get sibilance.. I'll offer you 500 bucks for your pair.

I just cranked up Cohn's track (happened to have it at 192k MP3) and plopped in the W3s with the modded tri-flanges (stalk trimmed a bit) and not a hint of sibiliance. I listened via my Zune80, unamped. Your offer of $500 notwithstanding, I don't think it has to do with my pair of W3s, it has to do with the way the tri-flanges work for me (and others, it seems). With shorter tips I had some W3 sibiliance issues. In fact, I stuck on the short complys and listened, and sure enough, the same song generated some harshness. To me, it's all in the tips, for whatever reason. Don't have the Matchbox 20 track, but I can get it. Though I doubt it will make any difference. I will try those same tracks with my X10s and Audeos as well, and if no sibilance, than I'd say it's not the music itself.

I would not bother to BS anyone on this point. They W3s with the right sleeves do not sound harsh/exhibit sibilance to my ears. And there's no reason I would defend these phones if that were not the case, considering I have sold almost all of the phones I purchased in the past for one reason another.

Anyway, that's my version of the sibilance challenge. Anyone else try it?

 

[pdupiano]

I tried out the westone 3's with tri flanges (same ones that I used for the Etys, the stalk is pretty much cut down to the bottom of the third flange). And I still got sibilance. How far deep are you inserting the triple flanges? Or are you just creating a seal using the first "mushroom tip"? I pretty much stuck the first and second flange in with the third just over my ear canal acting as the last sound barrier. I dont have access to the W3's anymore but I'm amazed that you dont get any sibilance from that track. He says s"ss and Ch's every other second. I listened to it with my etys and got sibilance from it.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tried out the westone 3's with tri flanges (same ones that I used for the Etys, the stalk is pretty much cut down to the bottom of the third flange). And I still got sibilance. How far deep are you inserting the triple flanges? Or are you just creating a seal using the first "mushroom tip"? I pretty much stuck the first and second flange in with the third just over my ear canal acting as the last sound barrier. I dont have access to the W3's anymore but I'm amazed that you dont get any sibilance from that track. He says s"ss and Ch's every other second. I listened to it with my etys and got sibilance from it.

If you were using the Ety OEM tri-Flanges, with the recessed stalks (I have a pair here cause they come with the im716s too), then they won't work, cause I tried them too. I thought they sucked.

If you use the ones that came with the W3s (or Shure flanges), then I just trimmed the end (tube) so the clipped section looks like a little round white thing, a few millimeters.

As for as ear insertion, I just wet a little the flanges and insert them deep enough to form a seal on my ear, never checked the mirror. And I understand where you are coming from on the harshness (sssss sound), but I don't hear it with the W3s. When I get some time later, I am going to listen to that track with all my decent phones, including the Grado 80s, and see if it sounds harsh. I am curious now.

 

[elnero]

Sibilance is a natural part of vocals so yes, headphones should display an amount of it but it should sound natural not excessive, overpowering everything else, hurting your ears or making you cringe every time a passage comes along that has an amount of it.

Some recordings are more prone to display it either by the way it's recorded, the singers style or a combination of both. There are even recording tricks called de-essers (sp?) used to soften the emphasis on s's an t's.

I've always maintained there are two types of excessive sibilance that I hear from playback devices, the first is due to a spike in the frequency range where sibilance occurs, this causes sibilance to stand out as louder and more aggressive, or "hot". The second is due to the quality of the treble where the sibilance becomes almost smeared, not necessarily louder just more emphasis due to smearing.

For some, myself included, the excessive sibilance (note I say excessive sibilance to describe it) seems to be of the "hot" variety but can be brought back in line with various types of tips which seem to be of the longer variety.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif A W3' with no sibilance is tough to imagine from my point. Unless I failed to clearly make the statement, I don't think its a "problem" I think its just part of the sound sig of the W3's. Try Marc Cohn's Join the Parade, there should be a sample from itunes (but listen to the studio recorded version, not the live versions, I think its just the recording). IF you dont get any sibilance, then something is weird because I get sibilance from that song using my hd650's, etys, and when I used the shures. Or atleast try Matchbox 20's long day. And if you still don't get sibilance.. I'll offer you 500 bucks for your pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^^ you do know hes just gonna say theres no sibilance, get you to stick to your word, get the 500 off you, then buy some more and make almost $200 right?...

pdupiano, Song's not available on iTunes UK, but did listen to it from Amazon.com. I hear what you're saying now - yes there's sibilance, and I believe this to be the normal type of sibilance, although definitely more so than on many other recordings I've listened to, and personally I didn't enjoy the sound, in spite of the music & singing being quite good. Sounded quite compressed to me, perhaps because it's only a sample and not the actual download? I know iTunes samples are the same sound quality as the downloads.

jinx20001, $200 profit?, more like $100 I'd say as I paid $400 for mine. But having admitted to hearing some sibilance I guess I won't making a penny, then.

 

[epithetless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sibilance is a natural part of vocals so yes, headphones should display an amount of it but it should sound natural not excessive, overpowering everything else, hurting your ears or making you cringe every time a passage comes along that has an amount of it. Some recordings are more prone to display it either by the way it's recorded, the singers style or a combination of both. There are even recording tricks called de-essers (sp?) used to soften the emphasis on s's an t's. I've always maintained there are two types of excessive sibilance that I hear from playback devices, the first is due to a spike in the frequency range where sibilance occurs, this causes sibilance to stand out as louder and more aggressive, or "hot". The second is due to the quality of the treble where the sibilance becomes almost smeared, not necessarily louder just more emphasis due to smearing. For some, myself included, the excessive sibilance (note I say excessive sibilance to describe it) seems to be of the "hot" variety but can be brought back in line with various types of tips which seem to be of the longer variety.

elnero, that squares exactly with my thoughts. Kudos for putting it so well!

 

[tstarn06]

X2. Very good analysis. Just didn't hear any harsh s's or t's in the Cohn track. Also didn't care for it much either. Did you know? Cohn is married to Elizabeth Vargas, host of ABC's 20/20? Weird.

 

[SierraHotel01]

I'm convinced that Westone 3 SQ / acoustic signature is highly dependent on each individual's ear canal topology, and how that couples acoustically with the IEM / tube / tip.

Having tried all the tip options available with W3's, I settled on the Olives - they just sound best to my ears (tight punchy bass, mids where they ought to be, and great HF).

I've even experimented with "pre-squeezing" the Olives using slightly different techniques (i.e. compress Olive material towards "back" of tube vs. compress toward front). The latter works best for my ear canals. That, and how deeply I push them in, can have a noticeable effect on SQ for me.

Another thing I've learned with the W3's / Olives, is to remove them by placing my index finger on the top (by where the reinforced part of the wire comes out) and my thumb on the bottom rear of the W3 housing - then sort of rotate / twist both IEMs forward & out (counterclockwise on the left one - clockwise on the right one). This method of "unscrewing them" works very well with the Olives - otherwise, they don't come out easily, probably due to their great seal.

 

[fredman22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraHotel01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm convinced that Westone 3 SQ / acoustic signature is highly dependent on each individual's ear canal topology, and how that couples acoustically with the IEM / tube / tip.

X2. These were a lot more puzzling than my UM2s to figure out - not cut & dried at all. I have eventually re-settled on Shure grey softips - which are still a little bassy but can be tamed with EQ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraHotel01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having tried all the tip options available with W3's, I settled on the Olives - they just sound best to my ears (tight punchy bass, mids where they ought to be, and great HF).

Olives did not work for me, even the largest will not seal the shallow portion of my ear canal where the W3s reside - esp. when I move my jaw. Do have a care when it comes time to change tips; after experimenting with Large Olives on my W3s, I had a devil of a time getting them off safely and I actually thought I might break a nozzle (thank Westone for building 'em so tough) - that plastic sleeve fits tight! - I can only imagine when they've been on there for awhile... Cheers.

 

[SierraHotel01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredman22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif X2. These were a lot more puzzling than my UM2s to figure out - not cut & dried at all. I have eventually re-settled on Shure grey softips - which are still a little bassy but can be tamed with EQ... Olives did not work for me, even the largest will not seal the shallow portion of my ear canal where the W3s reside - esp. when I move my jaw. Do have a care when it comes time to change tips; after experimenting with Large Olives on my W3s, I had a devil of a time getting them off safely and I actually thought I might break a nozzle (thank Westone for building 'em so tough) - that plastic sleeve fits tight! - I can only imagine when they've been on there for awhile... Cheers.

I had the same problem initially, with Shure Olive tips "stuck" onto the W3 sound tube.

The fix: with your fingernail, get behind the tip (between the back of the tip and the W3 main housing), and gently push (with your fingernail) the hard core inside the Olive tip outward (away from housing). This "breaks" the seal between the Olive tip core and the sound tube. Then twist off normally. Works every time.

I sure got scared the first time I tried to just twist the Olives off.
Thought the sound tube would break before they would budge.

The fingernail behind the tip trick - just to get it started - try it.
Hope it works for you.

 

[SidCityMeis]

Hi there,

I bought my Westone 3 from Earphonesolutions, and after nearly 2 months of listening, I think I like the gray tips best.

p0wderh0und23 said in 2 separate posts that the gray rubber tips are a little softer than the clear tips, and made of silicone, and similar in design to the Shure's black Soft Flex tips, but made from a softer silicone material. (See this post and this post)

So does anyone know where to buy these Westone gray tips? I couldn't find them on Earphonesolutions' website and Westone online store.

Thanks very much!

 

[SierraHotel01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidCityMeis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi there, I bought my Westone 3 from Earphonesolutions, and after nearly 2 months of listening, I think I like the gray tips best. p0wderh0und23 said in 2 separate posts that the gray rubber tips are a little softer than the clear tips, and made of silicone, and similar in design to the Shure's black Soft Flex tips, but made from a softer silicone material. (See this post and this post) So does anyone know where to buy these Westone gray tips? I couldn't find them on Earphonesolutions' website and Westone online store. Thanks very much!

SidCityMeis makes an interesting observation:

Double checked: Neither Earphone Solutions nor Westone themselves offer "Westone Gray Silicone Tips" (that seems odd)

Earphone Solutions does list the Shure Gray Silicone tips: (link below)

Shure PA758 NEW Soft Flex Sleeve (5 pairs) for E1, E3, E4, E500, E5 and Westone UM1 and UM2

Do Westone-brand soft gray silicone tips really exist?

Are they made of slightly softer silicone than Shure gray silicone tips?
or does Westone simply bundle Shure gray silicone tips with W3?

P0wderh0und - we need your help on this!

PS: did you try the Shure Olives? They work well for some (but not all).
For those of us who get a good seal / fit with the Olives - SQ is usually reported as being fantastic (more HF air than comply tips, tighter less muddy LF response, good solid detailed mids)

 

[CapQ]

right now I only found the short comply tips are fit for me
and they getting dirty and dirty day by days.....

 

[tstarn06]

Of course, since I am never really satisfied, I decided to get out every tip I have that will fit the W3s and do some experimenting. How's this for a stunner? I stuck on a pair of the cheap, common Shure yellow foamies (had them left over from using them with my Atrios), and they sound pretty good. Some of that W3 sibilance seeps through, but not much (enough not to bother me), since these are very short tips. But they also are very comfy. Still feel the highs are a little "plasticky" as someone described it, but the detail is excellent, and the bass not so overwhelming (use my Zune80 right now).

Anyway, there's one tip I never even considered trying that works with the W3s, but not on all tracks. Now, on to the rest. Even though the modded tri-flange elminated any hint of sibilance, I felt it also led to a way too pronounced mid-bass emphasis. Hence, my ongoing search for another W3 tip. If none of them measure up, I will just go back to the tri-flanges and EQ a bit, as I did before.

Are we having fun yet?

 

[kbuzz]

@#$%@#%@$%@ I lost my Westone3's.....just a bit "letting off steam"

How is it i can't lose my ages old EC4's and the westones are gone in less then a month.....@#$%@