[OceanRanger]

Hi everyone, I just got my Cipher Lv 1 DAC for a week. I'm very impressed of how it performs.

The current tubes I see in the DAC are branded Westinghouse. I read some posts here and see you guys mentioned TAD tubes. I don't know if my Cipher's tubes have been changed or not? What should be the right tubes for Cipher?

Could anyone help me with this?

By the way, could you suggest the best musical and analog tubes for Cipher Lv 1?

Thank you!
Huy

Congratulations on the Cipher purchase. Adding the Cipher to my system was hands down the biggest and best improvement that I have made. To my ears it is awesome!! It has detail and doesn’t sacrifice the natural sound.

The Cipher uses12BH7s and mine came with TADs. You can likely get a set from Wells.

please keep us posted with your impressions.

 

[Bonddam]

Hi everyone, I just got my Cipher Lv 1 DAC for a week. I'm very impressed of how it performs.

The current tubes I see in the DAC are branded Westinghouse. I read some posts here and see you guys mentioned TAD tubes. I don't know if my Cipher's tubes have been changed or not? What should be the right tubes for Cipher?

Could anyone help me with this?

By the way, could you suggest the best musical and analog tubes for Cipher Lv 1?

Thank you!
Huy

You should get TAD and see which one you like better. Mine had a different brand as well. My original went bad so changed to TAD.

 

[quanghuy147]

Thank you @OceanRanger and Bonddam!

I have the same feeling with OceanRanger, Cipher is very natural and relaxed but it still keeps the details. It's more detailed than my Schiit Yggy 2 and more relaxing than my previous MHDT Orchid DAC. I wonder how this is possible considering Cipher uses the Sabre chip and Delta-Sigma technology.

I sometimes ask myself how better is Cipher 2 compared to Cipher 1. I wish Wells Audio breaks down the level of upgrading to smaller levels instead of jumping from Level 1 $5000 to Level 2 $13000. This difference in dollars is pretty big to me.

I will definitely play around with tube rolling.

By the way, may I know which streamer you use with Cipher? Do you prefer to use USB or Coax? If it's possible, could you suggest the cables too?

I'm using Allo Signature Streamer with Coax output to Cipher. I have 2 Coax cables, one is High Fidelity CT-1 and the other is Audio Art DS-1SE. While the former provides more details in 3 bands, it is somehow a little more tiring than the latter. The latter provide thicker sound (or more noise in disguise of texture, I'm not sure), the resolution is less and bass is less tighter.

I don't have a USB cable to test so I don't know Coax or USB sound better.

 

[OceanRanger]

I'm feeding my Cipher with Qobuz content using a MacBook Pro as the Roon server and streamer. The MacBook is connected to the Cipher with a Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB. This source isn't ideal, but it suits me for now. I wish that I had a dedicated streamer and if I did I would probably use the coax as my preferred input. I say this only because I've heard that they are less susceptible to noise (note that I haven't confirmed this personally). Please do let us know if you do a comparison of both the USB and Coax.

The Cipher LI is pretty awesome. I think that it is a wonderful value at $5k. I love my LII. I am still thrilled with the purchase. The LII definitely builds on the awesomeness from the LI, but it isn't cheap and as with anything in this hobby, there are most certainly diminishing marginal returns.

 

[The Piper]

Thank you @OceanRanger and Bonddam!

I have the same feeling with OceanRanger, Cipher is very natural and relaxed but it still keeps the details. It's more detailed than my Schiit Yggy 2 and more relaxing than my previous MHDT Orchid DAC. I wonder how this is possible considering Cipher uses the Sabre chip and Delta-Sigma technology.

I sometimes ask myself how better is Cipher 2 compared to Cipher 1. I wish Wells Audio breaks down the level of upgrading to smaller levels instead of jumping from Level 1 $5000 to Level 2 $13000. This difference in dollars is pretty big to me.

I will definitely play around with tube rolling.

By the way, may I know which streamer you use with Cipher? Do you prefer to use USB or Coax? If it's possible, could you suggest the cables too?

I'm using Allo Signature Streamer with Coax output to Cipher. I have 2 Coax cables, one is High Fidelity CT-1 and the other is Audio Art DS-1SE. While the former provides more details in 3 bands, it is somehow a little more tiring than the latter. The latter provide thicker sound (or more noise in disguise of texture, I'm not sure), the resolution is less and bass is less tighter.

I don't have a USB cable to test so I don't know Coax or USB sound better.

Noise almost always manifests as false richness, fullness and warmth. Also, the TAD 12bh7 tubes supplied with the Cipher from the factory best match the sonic characteristics of the Cipher and after some extensive comparisons with the best NOS tubes would appear to be the best choice for tube rolling. Extreme clarity, transparency and detail without unwanted unmusical artifacts such as hardness, harshness, etc. the reason for the large dollar disparity between the Level I and Level II is that to improve upon the Level I in any meaningful way it takes some heroic and expensive parts additions.

 

[vkenz]

I am still breaking in my Dragon L1 with about (200 factory breakin) + (usage breakin 48). My initial impressions on using the default TAD and my tungsram 6922 tubes. Using my reference HD800S/HD600 before even going to my other headphones and my V590 as DAC/Preamp.

TAD tubes
- vocals sounds further back, wider presentation

tungsram 6922
- vocals more intimate, closer presentation

My preferred tubes so far is my tungsram 6922. Why? Because of dynamics, punchy bass, vocals.

The AMP I noticed seems to be getting better sounding every day that I turn in on. I am definitely gonna upgrade it to level 3 once jeff have a 4.4mm headphone out.

 

[quanghuy147]

Thank you everyone for your input about the tubes!

Today, I tried to the USB and compared with Coax. I like the USB more than Coax. The sound is cleaner and less noise.

Edited: I found the cause for the drop of the volume, its because the software I used to play DSD (Audirvana) was set as " Convert DSD to PCM". I changed this to use Native DSD and the problem is solved.

 

[vkenz]

Update:
Today, I tried my Rosson Rad-0 on my Dragon L1 since I figured it is sounding better everyday. And the first to great me was the mids is a "Wow". So much emotions from vocals and the micro detail is just another "Wow". This is now feeling like HD600 on steroids.

 

[Bonddam]

Watch out for those gummies that are CBD. I didn't know they had funny stuff in them. So 1266 and Dragon not good combo when you realize your brain is melting. I was taken them for pain not to get high. I don't know how they got away with selling in PA at a fair. It's not legal in my state.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

What kind of signature does the Lii version of this amp produce? I'm really trying to get the most info I can before I make a plunge. I did own the Milo before. But never a tube amp or hybrid.

 

[OceanRanger]

I have about 200 hours on the new Headtrip. I am loving this amp. It is fascinating to see how things have changed over that time. Initially I had some concerns that the new amp wasn't going to be as spacial / holographic as the Dragon. I no longer have that concern as this aspect has really blossomed in the last 100 hours of burn in. This causes me to wonder how much of this character is coming from my DAC and the amp is letting it show through. I anticipate that things will continue to open up even more so in the coming weeks.

 

[OceanRanger]

I'm going to put burn in in the same category as AC power cords.....I don't believe that there is any reason that either should make a difference to what I hear, but they do. Hmmm...

 

[Bonddam]

You will all be happy to know that I'm getting my Cipher back from the person I sold it to. Funny thing he said it's better then his custom made Tron r2r $10k DAC and the Cipher is only level one.

 

[quanghuy147]

Hi Bonddam,
That's interesting. However, I don't think I got the story. You sold Cipher to a buyer, he then bought Tron r2r and decided to return Cipher to you although the Cipher is better than Tron? May I know if I understand it correctly?

 

[Bonddam]

Sorry didn't mean to confuse. I have excitement issues. I was too happy I got it back. So the story.
Like with a lot of things the grass looks greener on the other side and that's me.

So I sold the Cipher and after realizing the Doge 7 was not right for me after I gave it time to sink in.

The person was having a custom R2R built by Tron and the cost was 10 grand. He didn't have the Tron when he took my Cipher.

Today I asked him I guess the Tron is better and he said no. Cipher is more alive and more holographic. He said he doesn't want to loose $5k selling the Tron.

Lucky me he put my Cipher back.

Here's deal don't knock till you tired it.

I won't stop trying things. I can't I have to know. I'm like an explorer who needs to know how the world works.

If still unclear call me I'm better over the phone.