Well I quit !
Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 AM Post #31 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
We don't really want to hear what everyone has to say about each and every action we take. We have a few, basic, rules at Head-Fi, as spelled out in our Terms of Use. We try our best to enforce those rules as even handedly as possible.

...(if he knows which moderator made the decision)



If only there were adequate rules that WERE consistently enforced and if only it were made clear who moderates what. The enforcement is intermittent and and unrelated to feedback and thus corrupts any idea of fairness or appropriateness. Certain people are allowed to go on posting in ways destructive to open discourse about legitimate audiophile interests versus pseudo-scientific debunking. Though to a petty extent, the exercise of power without responsibility to a constituency is corrupting, e.g., "we don't really want to hear..."

Yes, apparently, you don't "get it."
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 5:10 AM Post #33 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riboge /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If only there were adequate rules that WERE consistently enforced and if only it were made clear who moderates what. The enforcement is intermittent and and unrelated to feedback and thus corrupts any idea of fairness or appropriateness. Certain people are allowed to go on posting in ways destructive to open discourse about legitimate audiophile interests versus pseudo-scientific debunking. Though to a petty extent, the exercise of power without responsibility to a constituency is corrupting, e.g., "we don't really want to hear..."


I completely 100% disagree with the above. And as for the OP, he needs to toughen up a bit if hes going to use the internet. I agree with others that not only are there far more pretentious boards on the internet (radiohead.com) but also boards where people eat their young (t-nation.com) and where posters disappear and next posts about the poster disappear (dpreview.com). We have it good here my friends. If you want leave, leave with a little class and do it quietly instead of pissing in our faces. My suggestion is that this thread is locked because it really is useless.
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 5:23 AM Post #34 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_McBob /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I see the thread censors are out in force
smily_headphones1.gif



Yup, dealing with the ***hats who post things that they know they shouldn't just to give us more work to do.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 5:56 AM Post #35 of 40
Meh...it's an internet forum, there is more in live to worry about than the way the mods run the site. The rules are in place for a reason, I don't see a reason to get up in arms over it. Although I don't know the thread in question I am sure the was valid reason for it to go...
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 6:08 AM Post #36 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riboge /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If only there were adequate rules that WERE consistently enforced and if only it were made clear who moderates what. The enforcement is intermittent and and unrelated to feedback and thus corrupts any idea of fairness or appropriateness. Certain people are allowed to go on posting in ways destructive to open discourse about legitimate audiophile interests versus pseudo-scientific debunking. Though to a petty extent, the exercise of power without responsibility to a constituency is corrupting, e.g., "we don't really want to hear..."

Yes, apparently, you don't "get it."



Who moderates what. That's easy, we all moderate whatever needs to be moderated when we happen to be online. Nobody has any assigned duties. None of us need to be here at any particular time. None of us are assigned to any particular forums. It's more or less whatever we might bump into while we happen to be online otherwise, plus looking into any posts that have been reported by other members.

Our rules might not be adequate, but if we had more rules you would complain about that too. No matter how they were enforced, you would say they were inconsistently enforced. If for no other reason, when they are enforced against you, you will disagree. When they're not enforced against someone else, you will also disagree. If the world is anything less than perfect in your eyes, it will be smugly deemed to be "intermittent" to this and "unrelated" to that and will "corrupt" this and so on.

Yes, I get it. You're the kind of person who can't be satisfied no matter how we might try. You know everything and can sit behind a keyboard and tell us what a poor job we do. Well, we do it for free, buster, and some of us spend plenty of time doing it for free. Why? Because we want to make Head-Fi a better place. Perfect? Nah. It could never be, especially with impossible to please people like yourself who apparently never have a good thing to say about those who have tried to make a difference around here.

So, no, "we really don't want to hear" if this is the kind of thing we're going to hear each and every time someone wants to nit pick a decision that one of us has made without any known bias, but simply to deal with whatever situation was at hand the best that he knew how.

Exercise of power without responsibility to a constituency? About the only thing I agree with in that sentence is the "petty" part. Everything we do is aimed to make Head-Fi a better place. None of us gets off on the "power"... what power, exactly? We just clean up little messes and try to ensure that people are being decent to each other. There isn't a whole lot more to it than that, most days. Honestly, all we are really trying to do is to keep the peace so that everyone can enjoy the site.

99% of the people I've ever banned are spammers who register an account to sell 158 different cell phones. They start 2 or 3 threads, a bunch of folks report those posts, and boom, they're gone. Other than that, we try to work with anyone who seems to be causing problems by making offending posts or violating the rules in one way or another.

If you make a stray post now and then that gets deleted, but then you don't hear anything from one of the moderators about it, then it couldn't have been that bad! It was deleted for one reason or another in terms of policy, but if you didn't get a PM about it, then it wasn't such a big issue. Of course if you do the same thing over and over, you'll then hear about it.

So really, what's the big deal? You simply think to yourself, "Ok, I see. That must have been deleted because my comment was political, which I know is not allowed..." (or whatever the case may be, but it isn't generally hard to figure out). In fact, sometimes people intentionally push the envelope and thus know exactly why something was deleted.

Anyway, I'll stop now. Speaking only for myself (directly), there is no big power rush about being a moderator on some silly internet forum about headphones (of all things). But indirectly, I'm confident that I speak for all other moderators as well. We do our best. We're not perfect or anywhere near perfect. We can't possibly see all posts on all threads. We rely on our members to guide us by reporting posts that they think are offensive or in some way violate the few, basic, rules that we ask people to follow.

We don't mind (and actually benefit directly from) feedback, even when that involves constructive criticism of what we do or fail to do. But not every decision by every moderator needs to be criticized every day by whomever didn't like it. That's why, generally speaking, we tend to close threads such as this one. I only left it open because I've always respected hciman77 for his outstanding, insightful and mature posts, and would personally miss his contributions here should he decide to leave us for good. I hope he doesn't, but that's not my call.

But maybe I don't "get it"... that's entirely possible.
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 6:27 AM Post #37 of 40
The only time a post of mine was ever deleted was my quoted response to someones rude comment, and in order to get it off the board, my comment had to also be deleted because i had that rude quote in my message.
The mod that deleted it was nice enough to message me and told me the reason my comment was deleted, so i thought that was pretty respectful of him really.
Ive seen some threads deleted, and i saw it comming , but some were pretty funny so i saved them before they got deleted to read for my own humour...lol.

I say if youre a bit upset, either leave quietly,or just take a vacation and maybe one day youll come back refreshed and happy and enjoy this place again.
Every forum is going to have good and bad,but i think generally most of this place is good.
Look at all the members lending equipment to other members to try out,and even paying high shipping costs to help!
And how about members giving away amps and headphones etc,to those less fortunate.
I think theres more light here than dark.
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 6:33 AM Post #38 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drag0n /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I say if youre a bit upset, either leave quietly,or just take a vacation... I think theres more light here than dark.


x2!
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 7:19 AM Post #39 of 40
Yeah I've only had posts deleted twice, because they showed up in two threads that got deleted. I asked the mods why they deleted the threads and they were very nice in giving an explanation as to why the threads were deleted and why the topic in question was in violation of Head-Fi policy. Personally, I've never found there to be particularly heavy censorship of any sort on Head-fi.
 
Feb 20, 2008 at 7:54 AM Post #40 of 40
I'm going to close this thread now but not before saying that I've just realized that I was partly (mostly) to blame for what hciman77 got upset about today. I don't know, maybe today was the final straw for him and that he's been bothered by certain things for a long time and this was something that was coming anyway. But I do feel a certain sadness in knowing that my actions have had something to do with his decision to leave, and I hope that based on the PM that I've now sent to him that he will reconsider.

Essentially, he interpreted a post I had made earlier today in an entirely different way than which is was intended, although his interpretation was certainly not an unreasonable one on his part, now that I'm aware of his frustration. But his interpretation was so far off from my intent with the post in question that I didn't even realize I had anything whatsoever to do with what he was talking about in his opening (and only) post on this thread. Thus, all of my comments on this thread (up until now) were made from the perspective of someone who was concerned that he has decided to quit Head-Fi, but without knowing why.

I got curious and dug through the deleted threads only to realize that he had started a thread, which someone else on the moderating team had seen and deleted, which questioned a post I had made when closing another thread. In any case, my comments were not in the slightest degree intended the way he interpreted them. Likewise, whomever closed the thread that he started in criticism of my post, was simply following a basic procedure that we have which is not to allow threads to remain open if their sole purpose is to question or debate the actions of another moderator. As I've stated in this thread, those sorts of debates should be taken up privately, not publicly, so the decision to close that thread was, I'm sure, nothing personal.

Thus, as I see it, there has been an unfortunate chain of events today that could have been avoided had I paused for a moment to consider the possible interpretations of what I had posted before doing so. It was something that I had given all of 5 seconds of thought to, and then just posted instinctively. I feel bad about that, but can't really blame myself for something that I can genuinely say was not intended to be interpreted in the way in which it was. I'll certainly be more careful the next time a similar situation arises.
 

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