archosman
Songs From The Crystal Cave
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Follow your dreams fyrfytrhoges, you can reach your goals... I'm living proof...
beefcake... BEEEFCAAAKE!
weight gainer
- Thread starter fyrfytrhoges
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Follow your dreams fyrfytrhoges, you can reach your goals... I'm living proof...
beefcake... BEEEFCAAAKE!
jpr703
Headphoneus Supremus
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As GreenBastard mentioned, a multivitamin is probably the most important supplement you could take if you're not eating enough. Beverly International Ultra 4 and AST Pro 32x are both pretty good formulas.
If you feel like you have to take a commerical weight gainer, Beverly International Ultra Size is a good product. CytoSport Muscle Milk is also generally thought well of. However, both are expensive and as others have already said, you could do better with a homemade solution.
Natural foods are always the best, so keep working on trying to eat better. Good luck!
If you feel like you have to take a commerical weight gainer, Beverly International Ultra Size is a good product. CytoSport Muscle Milk is also generally thought well of. However, both are expensive and as others have already said, you could do better with a homemade solution.
Natural foods are always the best, so keep working on trying to eat better. Good luck!
number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
^^ Always a good suggestion coming from this guy!!
Also it is a good idea to at least try to get into the weight room. It will increase your appetite and help you gain weight. Seriously check out bb.com as they will be able to help you even more.
| Originally Posted by jpr703 As GreenBastard mentioned, a multivitamin is probably the most important supplement you could take if you're not eating enough. Beverly International Ultra 4 and AST Pro 32x are both pretty good formulas. If you feel like you have to take a commerical weight gainer, Beverly International Ultra Size is a good product. CytoSport Muscle Milk is also generally thought well of. However, both are expensive and as others have already said, you could do better with a homemade solution. Natural foods are always the best, so keep working on trying to eat better. Good luck! |
^^ Always a good suggestion coming from this guy!!
Also it is a good idea to at least try to get into the weight room. It will increase your appetite and help you gain weight. Seriously check out bb.com as they will be able to help you even more.
TWIFOSP
Headphoneus Supremus
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You gotta watch what you're doing with most weight gainers. You'll end up with more fat than muscle.
I have a bit of experience with gaining weight. I have off & on sleep problems that can be severe enough that when they last for more than I month I can lose upwards of 10-15 pounds in only 4-6 weeks.
When I go back to normal routines, I always go back to hitting the weights and trying to gain weight again. I've tried several different methods to put the pounds back on. I've done shakes, weight gainers, eating, all kinds of stuff. And I can report that most of them are gimmicks and actually will put the pounds on slower than just eating. That said, they do have their uses.
I've found a method that works best for me, with quick results and long lasting results.
I drink two shakes daily, 1 in the morning before breakfast, and then 1 post work out. The shake is fairly simple. Regular protien powder (cassien, don't use soy, cassien interacts with more vitimans to make testosterone) mixed with soy milk (I don't like lactose very much, so feel free to use milk if you prefer), some frozen strawberries and a bannana. I use generic protien powder because I don't care too much about the taste since the fresh fruit makes it taste good. The drink ends up being about 39 grams of protien, 24 carbs, and 2 grams of fat.
Now I've tried all sorts of shakes from cheap to expensive and programs like myoplex. And they work, kinda. But seriously, EATING does so much more.
When I'm on a weight gain, I try and eat 6 times a day. Shake, Half of a breakfast, snack, half of a lunch, work out, shake, half a dinner, snack before bed.
What you eat is up to you, but try and eat lots of protien. Mix it up. Red meat, fish, chicken ect. Try and eat about 20-30 grams of protien per meal. (Since you'll be eating 6 times a day). Preparing meals in bulk will help you stick to this routine.
Also, one of the real benefits from shakes is that they have lots of vitimans in them. So if you don't do shakes at all, you can get the same results by eating right (lots of protien, good carbs and good fat) and taking vitimans, or eating enough fruits and veggies so you get them anyway.
Zinc and magnesium and your b vitimans should be in your diet. Zinc promotes testerone growth, and will help you build muscle. It's also VERY important part of your diet if you ingest ANY soy products due to the way soy actually will promote under producting testerone and actually producing estrogen. Soy isn't bad, I drink nothing but soy milk personally. But make sure you take the right vitimans when ingeseting soy.
Now eating like this without working out properly WILL make you gain weight, but not the good kind. So it's important to work out properly.
If you are just going for a weight (muscle mass increase) then don't bother with sitting around on the preacher benches at the gym trying to make your biceps bulge out. You must do full-body compound excercises.
Lift 3 times a week. Do deadlifts and cleans one day. Do squats and military presses another day. Do back excercises and abs on the 3rd. Don't bother with isolation excercises UNTIL you've reached your weight goal. Your support muscles like biceps and tricpes will grow with the rest of your body. When you do meet your goal, your body will be in growth mode from working out the entire body. So when you start doing things like triceps ect, they will grow faster than before and you will have overall better results.
Honestly it's quite simple. Full body work outs are the MOST important thing to just putting on weight. And pack in the calories. Your body will not grow without food. Shakes are just a suppliment, do not over do them. Your body NEEDS real food. I've tried the uber shake route and I know what works faster. Every day just eat like you're going to prison the next day and work just 3 times a week. But work out HARD. Deadlifts, squats and cleans are really all you need to pack on about 10 pounds of nothing but muscle in 3-4 weeks provided you are eating right.
And to people who are saying to worry about getting toned ect before putting on useless mass consider this. For every pound of lean body mass you have on your body, you burn about 7-10 calories an hour just sitting there. And twice that when your heart rate is elevated. The more mass you put on FIRST, the EASIER it is to cut fat and get lean.
Anyway, if you have any questions or specifics, head over to www.discussfitness.com. It is the head-fi of the work out world. Plenty of recipes for good clean eating for any goal. Plenty of routines and descriptions too. Lots of good friendly knowledgable people. If you have any questions after that, feel free to PM me. I go through a weight gain period about twice a year due to my sleeping disorder, so I know what works.
I have a bit of experience with gaining weight. I have off & on sleep problems that can be severe enough that when they last for more than I month I can lose upwards of 10-15 pounds in only 4-6 weeks.
When I go back to normal routines, I always go back to hitting the weights and trying to gain weight again. I've tried several different methods to put the pounds back on. I've done shakes, weight gainers, eating, all kinds of stuff. And I can report that most of them are gimmicks and actually will put the pounds on slower than just eating. That said, they do have their uses.
I've found a method that works best for me, with quick results and long lasting results.
I drink two shakes daily, 1 in the morning before breakfast, and then 1 post work out. The shake is fairly simple. Regular protien powder (cassien, don't use soy, cassien interacts with more vitimans to make testosterone) mixed with soy milk (I don't like lactose very much, so feel free to use milk if you prefer), some frozen strawberries and a bannana. I use generic protien powder because I don't care too much about the taste since the fresh fruit makes it taste good. The drink ends up being about 39 grams of protien, 24 carbs, and 2 grams of fat.
Now I've tried all sorts of shakes from cheap to expensive and programs like myoplex. And they work, kinda. But seriously, EATING does so much more.
When I'm on a weight gain, I try and eat 6 times a day. Shake, Half of a breakfast, snack, half of a lunch, work out, shake, half a dinner, snack before bed.
What you eat is up to you, but try and eat lots of protien. Mix it up. Red meat, fish, chicken ect. Try and eat about 20-30 grams of protien per meal. (Since you'll be eating 6 times a day). Preparing meals in bulk will help you stick to this routine.
Also, one of the real benefits from shakes is that they have lots of vitimans in them. So if you don't do shakes at all, you can get the same results by eating right (lots of protien, good carbs and good fat) and taking vitimans, or eating enough fruits and veggies so you get them anyway.
Zinc and magnesium and your b vitimans should be in your diet. Zinc promotes testerone growth, and will help you build muscle. It's also VERY important part of your diet if you ingest ANY soy products due to the way soy actually will promote under producting testerone and actually producing estrogen. Soy isn't bad, I drink nothing but soy milk personally. But make sure you take the right vitimans when ingeseting soy.
Now eating like this without working out properly WILL make you gain weight, but not the good kind. So it's important to work out properly.
If you are just going for a weight (muscle mass increase) then don't bother with sitting around on the preacher benches at the gym trying to make your biceps bulge out. You must do full-body compound excercises.
Lift 3 times a week. Do deadlifts and cleans one day. Do squats and military presses another day. Do back excercises and abs on the 3rd. Don't bother with isolation excercises UNTIL you've reached your weight goal. Your support muscles like biceps and tricpes will grow with the rest of your body. When you do meet your goal, your body will be in growth mode from working out the entire body. So when you start doing things like triceps ect, they will grow faster than before and you will have overall better results.
Honestly it's quite simple. Full body work outs are the MOST important thing to just putting on weight. And pack in the calories. Your body will not grow without food. Shakes are just a suppliment, do not over do them. Your body NEEDS real food. I've tried the uber shake route and I know what works faster. Every day just eat like you're going to prison the next day and work just 3 times a week. But work out HARD. Deadlifts, squats and cleans are really all you need to pack on about 10 pounds of nothing but muscle in 3-4 weeks provided you are eating right.
And to people who are saying to worry about getting toned ect before putting on useless mass consider this. For every pound of lean body mass you have on your body, you burn about 7-10 calories an hour just sitting there. And twice that when your heart rate is elevated. The more mass you put on FIRST, the EASIER it is to cut fat and get lean.
Anyway, if you have any questions or specifics, head over to www.discussfitness.com. It is the head-fi of the work out world. Plenty of recipes for good clean eating for any goal. Plenty of routines and descriptions too. Lots of good friendly knowledgable people. If you have any questions after that, feel free to PM me. I go through a weight gain period about twice a year due to my sleeping disorder, so I know what works.
F1GTR
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TWIFOSP makes some excellent points; however, you can't put on the proper mass unless your muscles are coordinated enough to lift the weight in the first place. Whenever someone asks me for tips for starting a workout regimen I always suggest sticking with light weight and high reps, 12-15, for strength and conditioning for at least the first two to three weeks or until you break through "the endurance barrier" everyone encounters when first starting to workout hard. Then, by all means, lower the reps to 6-8 per set and move that heavy weight. Whatever you do make sure that the amount of weight your lifting is making you fatigue 1-2 reps prior to the last in your set. Fatigue is the most important part. If you're not making your muscles push the weight that one last time, despite the pain, you're not going to grow.
With that said, Soy SUCKS for men. Stay far away from it unless it's the fermented type(tofu, tempeh, etc.) which is good.
Cow Milk SUCKS for humans. The protein structure is too intricate and the body doesn't break it down well.
Rice milk is low in protein and the version found in stores is nothing but sunflower oil and cane sugar.
Almond milk is where it's at and the homemade version is better than what's on the shelves.
Please listen strongly to the individual that suggested "natural" foods although I think he probably meant "whole" foods because anything in this day and age can be labeled "natural". I could take a crap in a bucket and label it 100% all natural.
If you can afford to do so I encourage you to give up the processed garbage and start eating organic whole foods that will encourage proper enzyme development in the body. Fast food, sodas, CRAP. They do nothing but bad for you and have very little nutritional benefit. I honestly haven't been to a fast food restaurant in over five years and never will again. Stay FAR, FAR away from partially hydrogenated soybean oil aka trans fats. It is an evil, synthetic, man-made in a lab omega-9 oil that your body has no idea what to do with because it is unnatural and can't be broken down. This is the one single thing, IMO, that is driving America's obesity level to epidemic proportions. It is in almost EVERYTHING these days, especially fast food. It's what they fry the fries in for crying out loud.
I'm vegan so I know very well about the issues of trying to put on muscle/weight while having limited sources for protein. The meat and dairy industry in this country is frightening to say the least and there's a real good reason why 12 year old girls these days look like they're 18 compared to 10 years ago. It's called hormones and anti-biotics and the non-organic meat supply in this country is tainted to the gill with them.
Don't be afraid of carbs. Carbs are great. The propaganda and backasswardness in this country surrounding diet and the evil carb is absolutely ridiculous. It's not the carb that's causing the problem, it's the trans fat and processed crap we talked about earlier and the amount of inactivity in people's lives. Choosing the right carbs is important though. Complex carbs like pasta(I suggest rice pasta because it's digested much more quickly than semolina wheat pasta), potatoes, and brown rice should be key on your list. If you can afford to pick one up, the best investment I've ever made for my kitchen is a Japanese rice cooker. It's so easy and effortless and produces amazing rice.
Simple carbs like those found in fruit should not be forgotten but consumed less than the complex variety. Always consume your fruit 30-45 mins. before each meal as it will stimulate enzyme action in your gut and serves as a catalyst to get your metabolism going for the actual meal. NEVER consume fruit right after a meal, or for dessert, as it will simply sit on top of the rest of the undigested food in your stomach and rot while it's waiting its turn to be digested. If you've ever noticed having gas after eating fruit after a meal, this is the cause.
If we had a basic idea as to what you consume during a day we would be better able to help you and make suggestions. Please keep track of everything you eat tomorrow or the day after and then post it up here so we can evaluate and respond accordingly.
Mountain Dew? Uhhh....no.
With that said, Soy SUCKS for men. Stay far away from it unless it's the fermented type(tofu, tempeh, etc.) which is good.
Cow Milk SUCKS for humans. The protein structure is too intricate and the body doesn't break it down well.
Rice milk is low in protein and the version found in stores is nothing but sunflower oil and cane sugar.
Almond milk is where it's at and the homemade version is better than what's on the shelves.
Please listen strongly to the individual that suggested "natural" foods although I think he probably meant "whole" foods because anything in this day and age can be labeled "natural". I could take a crap in a bucket and label it 100% all natural.
If you can afford to do so I encourage you to give up the processed garbage and start eating organic whole foods that will encourage proper enzyme development in the body. Fast food, sodas, CRAP. They do nothing but bad for you and have very little nutritional benefit. I honestly haven't been to a fast food restaurant in over five years and never will again. Stay FAR, FAR away from partially hydrogenated soybean oil aka trans fats. It is an evil, synthetic, man-made in a lab omega-9 oil that your body has no idea what to do with because it is unnatural and can't be broken down. This is the one single thing, IMO, that is driving America's obesity level to epidemic proportions. It is in almost EVERYTHING these days, especially fast food. It's what they fry the fries in for crying out loud.
I'm vegan so I know very well about the issues of trying to put on muscle/weight while having limited sources for protein. The meat and dairy industry in this country is frightening to say the least and there's a real good reason why 12 year old girls these days look like they're 18 compared to 10 years ago. It's called hormones and anti-biotics and the non-organic meat supply in this country is tainted to the gill with them.
Don't be afraid of carbs. Carbs are great. The propaganda and backasswardness in this country surrounding diet and the evil carb is absolutely ridiculous. It's not the carb that's causing the problem, it's the trans fat and processed crap we talked about earlier and the amount of inactivity in people's lives. Choosing the right carbs is important though. Complex carbs like pasta(I suggest rice pasta because it's digested much more quickly than semolina wheat pasta), potatoes, and brown rice should be key on your list. If you can afford to pick one up, the best investment I've ever made for my kitchen is a Japanese rice cooker. It's so easy and effortless and produces amazing rice.
Simple carbs like those found in fruit should not be forgotten but consumed less than the complex variety. Always consume your fruit 30-45 mins. before each meal as it will stimulate enzyme action in your gut and serves as a catalyst to get your metabolism going for the actual meal. NEVER consume fruit right after a meal, or for dessert, as it will simply sit on top of the rest of the undigested food in your stomach and rot while it's waiting its turn to be digested. If you've ever noticed having gas after eating fruit after a meal, this is the cause.
If we had a basic idea as to what you consume during a day we would be better able to help you and make suggestions. Please keep track of everything you eat tomorrow or the day after and then post it up here so we can evaluate and respond accordingly.
Mountain Dew? Uhhh....no.
F1GTR
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After all that talk I forgot the most important part.
Drink LOTS OF WATER all the time. Hydration is key to everything. Your body won't even deaminate protein and use it to build muscle without the aid of water.
Try to take in at least one gallon of water a day especially in the warmer months. People hear "gallon" and think it's a lot but it really isn't. 1 gallon is 3.8 liters. Get yourself a litter bottle of water at a gas station and make sure you fill that thing up a couple of times a day. After a few weeks you will have trained your body to accept that much water a day and it will ask for more. That's probably the most simple and healthy weight you can put on. Water weight.
Drink LOTS OF WATER all the time. Hydration is key to everything. Your body won't even deaminate protein and use it to build muscle without the aid of water.
Try to take in at least one gallon of water a day especially in the warmer months. People hear "gallon" and think it's a lot but it really isn't. 1 gallon is 3.8 liters. Get yourself a litter bottle of water at a gas station and make sure you fill that thing up a couple of times a day. After a few weeks you will have trained your body to accept that much water a day and it will ask for more. That's probably the most simple and healthy weight you can put on. Water weight.
Stephonovich
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
I've heard both from various sources. I dunno; I've done pretty well on Isolated Soy Protein. Haven't grown any new body parts, either
Quote:
Again, I've heard both. I look at the caloric content of whole milk as opposed to Soy, (and the taste - I hate Soy milk) and laugh. No comparison.
Quote:
How, pray tell, does one make milk from almonds? Last I checked they're mostly oil
That would be a potent source of protein, though, I imagine...
Quote:
Agreed. Everytime I stop at Mickey D's I feel... dirty, almost. Not good. Just never settles with me right.
Quote:
Congratulations. You're the first vegan bodybuilder I've met. That's saying something, living in Asheville.
Quote:
Hey, now...
| Originally Posted by F1GTR With that said, Soy SUCKS for men. Stay far away from it unless it's the fermented type(tofu, tempeh, etc.) which is good. |
I've heard both from various sources. I dunno; I've done pretty well on Isolated Soy Protein. Haven't grown any new body parts, either
Quote:
| Cow Milk SUCKS for humans. The protein structure is too intricate and the body doesn't break it down well. |
Again, I've heard both. I look at the caloric content of whole milk as opposed to Soy, (and the taste - I hate Soy milk) and laugh. No comparison.
Quote:
| Almond milk is where it's at and the homemade version is better than what's on the shelves. |
How, pray tell, does one make milk from almonds? Last I checked they're mostly oil
Quote:
| If you can afford to do so I encourage you to give up the processed garbage and start eating organic whole foods that will encourage proper enzyme development in the body. Fast food, sodas, CRAP. They do nothing but bad for you and have very little nutritional benefit. I honestly haven't been to a fast food restaurant in over five years and never will again. Stay FAR, FAR away from partially hydrogenated soybean oil aka trans fats. It is an evil, synthetic, man-made in a lab omega-9 oil that your body has no idea what to do with because it is unnatural and can't be broken down. This is the one single thing, IMO, that is driving America's obesity level to epidemic proportions. It is in almost EVERYTHING these days, especially fast food. It's what they fry the fries in for crying out loud. |
Agreed. Everytime I stop at Mickey D's I feel... dirty, almost. Not good. Just never settles with me right.
Quote:
| I'm vegan so I know very well about the issues of trying to put on muscle/weight while having limited sources for protein. |
Congratulations. You're the first vegan bodybuilder I've met. That's saying something, living in Asheville.
Quote:
| Mountain Dew? Uhhh....no. |
Hey, now...
gloco
Only one ban in 5000 attempts!
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fyrfytrhoges,
I skimmed most of this thread and the only thing i can tell you is to go see a nutritionist. What works for one person may backfire for you, our bodies pbviously react differently to what we eat and drink.
I'm sorry to hear you're having some difficulties but you really need to tackle this eating problem (disorder?) and if you having a sleeping problem...well, i know what happens when i don't sleep right for a long period of time.
No offense to anyone in this thread, but seriously fyrfytrhoges, go see a nutritionist and while your at it, go see another doctor for a second opinion.
What is the cause of this stress?
Based on some of the crap i've dealt with in the last few years (and doing a fine job of bottling it up). I've learned in the last year or so that life is short and to hell with stress or anything that makes me unhappy. I live a happier life now more than ever and i find myself eating healthier and continue the path to happiness.
I skimmed most of this thread and the only thing i can tell you is to go see a nutritionist. What works for one person may backfire for you, our bodies pbviously react differently to what we eat and drink.
I'm sorry to hear you're having some difficulties but you really need to tackle this eating problem (disorder?) and if you having a sleeping problem...well, i know what happens when i don't sleep right for a long period of time.
No offense to anyone in this thread, but seriously fyrfytrhoges, go see a nutritionist and while your at it, go see another doctor for a second opinion.
What is the cause of this stress?
Based on some of the crap i've dealt with in the last few years (and doing a fine job of bottling it up). I've learned in the last year or so that life is short and to hell with stress or anything that makes me unhappy. I live a happier life now more than ever and i find myself eating healthier and continue the path to happiness.
gloco
Only one ban in 5000 attempts!
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Quote:
...and in the process he'll clog his arteries. He can't go from one extreme to another.
| Originally Posted by ampgalore http://www.raytechcatalog.com/produc...ories-127.html 3600 Kcal, almost two days worth of energy in one little bag. Butter, almost anything with butter in it will give you the calories. Those Danish butter cookies, last time I checked 3 cookies give you 120kcal. Have a bite every now and then will surely pump you up. |
...and in the process he'll clog his arteries. He can't go from one extreme to another.
Quote:
Starting out from scratch it's never a good idea to start eating like a slob, and then expecting to get diesel because your eatting so much that its muscle automaticly. I think that's definatley the wrong attitude. 7-10 calories is absolutely nothimg nor is the calorie burning really from cardio (at most 600 usually if your doing like over a 60 minute run, for weights only even less). Yet i do it anyhow, it's good for my heart, and it helps speed up the metabolism.
Ideally i think most people want to look good, as well as getting big. Yet the misconception is you need to be big to look good, which to me is false.
Yet, all of this was off topic, he said before he wasnt trying to do weight training, yet he has some sort of anorexia problem.
Anyhow, it isn't always so easy as you say to get cut up after bulking, dropping body fat by choice is nearly impossible, getting in reasonable shape first (like say your already 30 lbs overweight, start bulking now?) isn't it a bad idea before you go on the potato milkshake diet, know what i mean?
I say get your weight under control, get in very decent shape then try and bulk up once your in control of your dieting and are on a program that you know to work for you personally rather then taking an expierment that turns you into a slob fast.
| Originally Posted by TWIFOSP And to people who are saying to worry about getting toned ect before putting on useless mass consider this. For every pound of lean body mass you have on your body, you burn about 7-10 calories an hour just sitting there. And twice that when your heart rate is elevated. The more mass you put on FIRST, the EASIER it is to cut fat and get lean. . |
Starting out from scratch it's never a good idea to start eating like a slob, and then expecting to get diesel because your eatting so much that its muscle automaticly. I think that's definatley the wrong attitude. 7-10 calories is absolutely nothimg nor is the calorie burning really from cardio (at most 600 usually if your doing like over a 60 minute run, for weights only even less). Yet i do it anyhow, it's good for my heart, and it helps speed up the metabolism.
Ideally i think most people want to look good, as well as getting big. Yet the misconception is you need to be big to look good, which to me is false.
Yet, all of this was off topic, he said before he wasnt trying to do weight training, yet he has some sort of anorexia problem.
Anyhow, it isn't always so easy as you say to get cut up after bulking, dropping body fat by choice is nearly impossible, getting in reasonable shape first (like say your already 30 lbs overweight, start bulking now?) isn't it a bad idea before you go on the potato milkshake diet, know what i mean?
I say get your weight under control, get in very decent shape then try and bulk up once your in control of your dieting and are on a program that you know to work for you personally rather then taking an expierment that turns you into a slob fast.
CSMR
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Ensure works for me. Tastes almost good too.
Quote:
Why not?
Quote:
| Originally Posted by MuZI Don't do this... |
Why not?
AlanY
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Quote:
This thread really hits close to home. Fyrfytrhoges, I had the same problem you do now for almost six months a couple years ago. (It was a little less severe -- I never went a full day without eating, but there were many days where I just had a single small meal.) The thing is, when you're in that place, it seems almost normal... it even makes sense to you sometimes, with reasons like it's mostly stress or you're "just not interested" in eating. But the truth is, when you finally get out of that place, you'll realize just how screwed up you were, how so many of your thinking patterns were messed up. It's just impossible to think clearly when you're eating so little. I thought I was thinking clearly at the time, I really thought I was, but I wasn't. The way I look at it now is that your mind/spirit shrivels just as much as your body does, you just can't see it.
Quote:
Sorry if this what I'm going to say sounds a little harsh, but I've been in your shoes myself, so I'm saying what I wish people would have said to me....
You've got to realize that this search for a weight gain supplement is just a band aid too, just as much as is the long term use of meds (and I agree with you there, for the most part). Even if you do find a supplement or high-calorie food that helps you put on weight for a while, it'll only postpone you from confronting your more serious problems.
You need to get to a place where you start feeling motivated to eat real food and real meals again. Everything else is just a game or a sideshow. The advice you're getting in this thread is not helpful, even if it seems like it is, because it is indulging the ways you're thinking right now. Again, because I've been there myself, I can tell you you're not thinking clearly. This isn't a criticism or an attack or anything... like I said, when you're eating so little, you feel like your thoughts are crystal clear, but when you get over this, you'll see that they were all cloudy, like looking through a dirty windshield.
If your weight is getting down to the point where it could become a medical emergency, then keep looking for supplements or start forcing yourself to eat. (When you reach a certain low body fat threshold, the body shuts down producing many of the fat-soluble hormones; you want to avoid this.) If you're not at that point yet, I wouldn't waste much energy on the quest for weight gainers. You have bigger fish to fry right now.
Quote:
Again, sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm only saying it because I've been there myself. I can tell by the last part of that quoted passage that your problems are mental, not physical.
You really need to get help. I wish I would have got help sooner when I was where you were. The not eating thing was the culmination of a series of problems that ended up doing damage to my life and career. You don't see it at the time (or it's really hard to see), but trust me, you'll regret having spent so long in this state.
Your thinking is distorted. Just because long term med use is not the answer (and it's not, I agree), doesn't mean that they couldn't help you on a short term basis to climb out of the hole you're in. You need to climb out of this hole! I'm telling you. I don't care how you do this. Meds or psychotherapy or herbs or whatever. As much as you might distrust or mock psychologists (hey, I was the same way), long term you're not going to get better without talk therapy, to learn to let go of the guilt (and self-anger) about your past failings that's hanging around you like a ball and chain. In the short term, you should put yourself in the hands of a competent medical professional and take his advice. He's looking at this with a clear mind, whereas you don't have a clear mind right now, I'm telling you. If he suggests a combo of meds and therapy short term, take his advice, even if they didn't work in the past. You want to get this rough period in your life over with as soon as possible, and get on the road to recovery. You'll get through it, trust me, and even emerge a much happier and stronger person, but you'll regret any time you wasted getting to that point. Take a medical professional's advice.
One more thing... your experience as an EMT is probably adding to the problem. That's a hard career, emotionally, seeing all that stuff, and it doesn't help you keep a proper perspective on things. You're seeing the 5% of situations that really are messed up, the 5% of people who've really hit their limits. You need to keep this in perspective. Just because meds didn't work for this small percentage of people (many of whom were undoubtedly hugely messed up to begin with), doesn't give you an honest perspective on the 95% of people who may have been helped by meds. The people who were helped don't end up needing the services of an EMT.
| Originally Posted by fyrfytrhoges what scares me the most about this whole thing is that my body has gotten so used to being deprived of food that i can go for over a day without eating (i dont do that all that frequently though) and still function normally, ie play racquetball etc. is it true that after long periods of time eating less that your stomach shrinks, because people have told me that. |
This thread really hits close to home. Fyrfytrhoges, I had the same problem you do now for almost six months a couple years ago. (It was a little less severe -- I never went a full day without eating, but there were many days where I just had a single small meal.) The thing is, when you're in that place, it seems almost normal... it even makes sense to you sometimes, with reasons like it's mostly stress or you're "just not interested" in eating. But the truth is, when you finally get out of that place, you'll realize just how screwed up you were, how so many of your thinking patterns were messed up. It's just impossible to think clearly when you're eating so little. I thought I was thinking clearly at the time, I really thought I was, but I wasn't. The way I look at it now is that your mind/spirit shrivels just as much as your body does, you just can't see it.
Quote:
| No offense taken, i do not want meds, ive been down that road before and if you have never experienced it, dont. ... go on any drug related forum and youll quickly find out that more often than not drugs become a band aid for underlying problems and cause more problems in the long run than the good they do, they have their place but can often be just a way of covering up something rather than dealing with it head on. |
Sorry if this what I'm going to say sounds a little harsh, but I've been in your shoes myself, so I'm saying what I wish people would have said to me....
You've got to realize that this search for a weight gain supplement is just a band aid too, just as much as is the long term use of meds (and I agree with you there, for the most part). Even if you do find a supplement or high-calorie food that helps you put on weight for a while, it'll only postpone you from confronting your more serious problems.
You need to get to a place where you start feeling motivated to eat real food and real meals again. Everything else is just a game or a sideshow. The advice you're getting in this thread is not helpful, even if it seems like it is, because it is indulging the ways you're thinking right now. Again, because I've been there myself, I can tell you you're not thinking clearly. This isn't a criticism or an attack or anything... like I said, when you're eating so little, you feel like your thoughts are crystal clear, but when you get over this, you'll see that they were all cloudy, like looking through a dirty windshield.
If your weight is getting down to the point where it could become a medical emergency, then keep looking for supplements or start forcing yourself to eat. (When you reach a certain low body fat threshold, the body shuts down producing many of the fat-soluble hormones; you want to avoid this.) If you're not at that point yet, I wouldn't waste much energy on the quest for weight gainers. You have bigger fish to fry right now.
Quote:
| you wouldnt believe what a seemingly normal person can be reduced to after taking these meds for a long period of time, very sad. believe me, like i said, i was down that road once before and it was not a pleasant experience when i decided the numerous things i was given werent working. and as far as anorexia go, well, i guess its possible, but i think unlikely. i think that i just let day to day problems and past failures (im very hard on myself and what might not seem like a failure to most is a disaster to me) drag me down and i carry those like a ball and chain around my ankle. |
Again, sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm only saying it because I've been there myself. I can tell by the last part of that quoted passage that your problems are mental, not physical.
You really need to get help. I wish I would have got help sooner when I was where you were. The not eating thing was the culmination of a series of problems that ended up doing damage to my life and career. You don't see it at the time (or it's really hard to see), but trust me, you'll regret having spent so long in this state.
Your thinking is distorted. Just because long term med use is not the answer (and it's not, I agree), doesn't mean that they couldn't help you on a short term basis to climb out of the hole you're in. You need to climb out of this hole! I'm telling you. I don't care how you do this. Meds or psychotherapy or herbs or whatever. As much as you might distrust or mock psychologists (hey, I was the same way), long term you're not going to get better without talk therapy, to learn to let go of the guilt (and self-anger) about your past failings that's hanging around you like a ball and chain. In the short term, you should put yourself in the hands of a competent medical professional and take his advice. He's looking at this with a clear mind, whereas you don't have a clear mind right now, I'm telling you. If he suggests a combo of meds and therapy short term, take his advice, even if they didn't work in the past. You want to get this rough period in your life over with as soon as possible, and get on the road to recovery. You'll get through it, trust me, and even emerge a much happier and stronger person, but you'll regret any time you wasted getting to that point. Take a medical professional's advice.
One more thing... your experience as an EMT is probably adding to the problem. That's a hard career, emotionally, seeing all that stuff, and it doesn't help you keep a proper perspective on things. You're seeing the 5% of situations that really are messed up, the 5% of people who've really hit their limits. You need to keep this in perspective. Just because meds didn't work for this small percentage of people (many of whom were undoubtedly hugely messed up to begin with), doesn't give you an honest perspective on the 95% of people who may have been helped by meds. The people who were helped don't end up needing the services of an EMT.
TWIFOSP
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Eating a lot doesn't mean eating like a slob. Just eat normally. Don't worry about cutting fat too much. When I say normal, i mean good healthy balanced meals. Not fast food.
The key point is to pack in the calories because your body will not grow without fuel. It's also much easier to work out hard when you aren't having to sacrifice in the food department.
All body builders go through 2 phases. One where they just add straight bulk, which includes fat, and one where they cut and tone. Don't be afraid of putting on a few pounds of fat when you are gaining weight. It's very hard to balance it perfectly so every calorie turns into muscle tissue. It's better to have too many calories than not enough when you are gaining weight. Because once you put on 10-15 lbs of lean body mass, it's much easier to cut it off.
Also, I do agree with the other post about not starting out heavy. Do 2-3 weeks of light training at high reps to condition your nervous system for the growth phase. I like circuit training for this (google it). Circuit training is also a good post bulk work out routine. Your heart rate gets elevated due to the high speed and rep work out, and you also increase your blood flow capacity to your muscles, tighten up and strengthen ligaments, and over all condition your body for work.
Let me give you a detailed example of what works for me:
Scenario:
I'm 6'1 with a lanky frame. I weigh about 170 lbs at 10-12% body fat. I'll run into a month of sleeping problems where my body literally gets thrown for a loop. I'll go down to 160 and 17-20% body fat. That's skinny and fat at the same time.
After I return to normal (I work closely with my doctor), I begin my workout routines.
First week, I eat normal, drink a lot of water, do cardio and lift 3 times a week.
Second week I do a week of circuit training.
3rd week, I start eating 6 times a day, try and pack in 2700-3000 calories. I work out heavy full body excercises twice a week and isolation upper body excercises the 3rd time.
I continue this until I'm back to about 180ish. I then start watching my fat intake, continue to eat about 2500 calories a day. I add 2 days of cardio (jump rope and jogging or bike) to my week and continue to lift 3 times a week, but usually isolation with alterating weeks of heavy full body.
The process takes about 6-7 weeks to go from lower muscle mass, and higher fat, to more muscle and lower fat. I've done probably about 5 times total with similar results. The fastest results have been when I just eat eat eat eat and just use shakes for suppliments. When I tried myoplex programs with expensive shakes, I didn't grow nearly as fast.
Wholesome, natural, healthy fresh food is the way to go.
After I'm back to my ideal condition, I generally try and enter a periodization program (alternating periods of low weight high rep and low rep high weight) to try and gain more weight and condition myself further. I generally never make much results until I have another round of sleeping conditions which force me to start over.
The key point is to pack in the calories because your body will not grow without fuel. It's also much easier to work out hard when you aren't having to sacrifice in the food department.
All body builders go through 2 phases. One where they just add straight bulk, which includes fat, and one where they cut and tone. Don't be afraid of putting on a few pounds of fat when you are gaining weight. It's very hard to balance it perfectly so every calorie turns into muscle tissue. It's better to have too many calories than not enough when you are gaining weight. Because once you put on 10-15 lbs of lean body mass, it's much easier to cut it off.
Also, I do agree with the other post about not starting out heavy. Do 2-3 weeks of light training at high reps to condition your nervous system for the growth phase. I like circuit training for this (google it). Circuit training is also a good post bulk work out routine. Your heart rate gets elevated due to the high speed and rep work out, and you also increase your blood flow capacity to your muscles, tighten up and strengthen ligaments, and over all condition your body for work.
Let me give you a detailed example of what works for me:
Scenario:
I'm 6'1 with a lanky frame. I weigh about 170 lbs at 10-12% body fat. I'll run into a month of sleeping problems where my body literally gets thrown for a loop. I'll go down to 160 and 17-20% body fat. That's skinny and fat at the same time.
After I return to normal (I work closely with my doctor), I begin my workout routines.
First week, I eat normal, drink a lot of water, do cardio and lift 3 times a week.
Second week I do a week of circuit training.
3rd week, I start eating 6 times a day, try and pack in 2700-3000 calories. I work out heavy full body excercises twice a week and isolation upper body excercises the 3rd time.
I continue this until I'm back to about 180ish. I then start watching my fat intake, continue to eat about 2500 calories a day. I add 2 days of cardio (jump rope and jogging or bike) to my week and continue to lift 3 times a week, but usually isolation with alterating weeks of heavy full body.
The process takes about 6-7 weeks to go from lower muscle mass, and higher fat, to more muscle and lower fat. I've done probably about 5 times total with similar results. The fastest results have been when I just eat eat eat eat and just use shakes for suppliments. When I tried myoplex programs with expensive shakes, I didn't grow nearly as fast.
Wholesome, natural, healthy fresh food is the way to go.
After I'm back to my ideal condition, I generally try and enter a periodization program (alternating periods of low weight high rep and low rep high weight) to try and gain more weight and condition myself further. I generally never make much results until I have another round of sleeping conditions which force me to start over.
fyrfytrhoges
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thanks people for all the advice!
but im sure if you read back through this thread you will see many conflicting opinions, although i see alot of good ideas or at least what i see seem like good ideas, there are just as many conflicting opinions. so i am going to do what i should have done in the first place.
doctor appointment at 3:45 p.m. wednesday
hope no one takes this the wrong way, being the guy that no one on the forum likes is a tough burden to carry, but i am grateful for the outpouring of support and all the suggestions people have made. thanks again. paul
but im sure if you read back through this thread you will see many conflicting opinions, although i see alot of good ideas or at least what i see seem like good ideas, there are just as many conflicting opinions. so i am going to do what i should have done in the first place.
doctor appointment at 3:45 p.m. wednesday
hope no one takes this the wrong way, being the guy that no one on the forum likes is a tough burden to carry, but i am grateful for the outpouring of support and all the suggestions people have made. thanks again. paul
hciman77
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
This is sort of familiar to me, not the weight loss, but I have a stress-related stomach complaint, just because something has its roots in psychological rather than organic causes does not make the problem any less real.
I suspect your GP will suggest that you change youir lifestyle to try and reduce the stress, though given your occupation it is hard to see an easy way to accomplish this.
Though it seems counter intuitive you might cut back on the exercise. If you are exercising to excess your body is generating bucketloads of endorphins which are natural painkillers and create a addictive feedback loop where you exercise more and more, also very high endorphin levels (which can act to reduce stress levels) cause weight loss and can cause appetite suppression so you get it coming and going.
| Originally Posted by fyrfytrhoges sixth, this weight loss is stress related |
This is sort of familiar to me, not the weight loss, but I have a stress-related stomach complaint, just because something has its roots in psychological rather than organic causes does not make the problem any less real.
I suspect your GP will suggest that you change youir lifestyle to try and reduce the stress, though given your occupation it is hard to see an easy way to accomplish this.
Though it seems counter intuitive you might cut back on the exercise. If you are exercising to excess your body is generating bucketloads of endorphins which are natural painkillers and create a addictive feedback loop where you exercise more and more, also very high endorphin levels (which can act to reduce stress levels) cause weight loss and can cause appetite suppression so you get it coming and going.
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