[antastik]

So the primary reason is the HF filter is there to help with 96/192 kHz and above recordings, as they have a lot of noise and distortion built into the recording - eliminating this improves sound quality noticeably with 192k recordings. But it also has a smaller benefit for 44.1k recordings too.

In previous implementations, I could not do an aggressive HF filter without it affecting 20kHz, and not giving a ruler flat frequency response. Some may object to that, and the engineer in me agrees (the music lover in me of course doesn't). But with Mojo 2's UHD DSP it does allow good HF filtering, and ruler flat frequency response (20Hz to 20KHz). Upon listening to the HF filter in Mojo 2, it simply sounded much better in all circumstances with it on, so I left it on all the time.

Some studies suggest that content above 20khz is not consciously heard but unconsciously perceived, adding to reality check that our brain does. This may suggest that not all content above 20 kHz should be filtered. Have you experimented with this?

 

[kennyb123]

It sounds like your wish of M-Scaler 2 is happening. M-scaler is reportedly coming out at some point in a Choral case (aka DAVE shape)

What I had in mind was the next generation of the M-Scaler in the Table Top series. I have a feeling the new Choral series scaler will go beyond a million taps so it probably won't be called M-Scaler and it will carry a higher price - maybe even approach the DAVE's price. I would be happy with something at the same price point as M-Scaler but just with a few incremental improvements: XMOS USB input plus an isolated or regenerated USB output.

 

[Rob Watts]

@Rob Watts , thanks for the reply. Curious about hf noise in 192khz recordings. What could be the reason ? Is it due to poor src used for downsampling from dxd to 192khz or is due to excessive processing with 192khz ?

Most of the distortion and noise comes from the ADC noise shaper but some aliasing comes from the ADC decimation filters too.

@Rob Watts
Rob I have a question regarding HF filter on Dave.

As I remember correctly you mentioned it somewhere that when using M Scaler the HF filter could be left always OFF as there is filtering already done in the MScaler. (I might be wrong)
But lately I've changed my headphones, and started doing evaluations with different settings (hf filter, crossfeed, phase etc...).
And I realized that with HF filter ON music sounds smoother (on 44.1khz).
The difference is not big (with previous headphones I couldn't spot it) but still sound especially in vocals is smoother a bit more easy going.
Vocals loose a bit of grittiness and roughens on the edges.

Is that even possible ? Or I made this in my mind ?

Yes 44.1 inputs will be warmer with HF on, and also whilst using the M scaler. Go with whichever works best for you, but on Dave via the M scaler I have it off.

Some studies suggest that content above 20khz is not consciously heard but unconsciously perceived, adding to reality check that our brain does. This may suggest that not all content above 20 kHz should be filtered. Have you experimented with this?

Sure, I have done a huge number of listening tests when the removal of inaudible HF content (for me that's > 16kHz). But in all cases the explanation is not that one can hear the ultrasonic products, but the effect they have on the audio bandwidth; they can increase noise floor modulation in the analogue sections, and the presence of these HF errors (particularly aliasing) will damage transient timing, thus then becoming audible.

What I had in mind was the next generation of the M-Scaler in the Table Top series. I have a feeling the new Choral series scaler will go beyond a million taps so it probably won't be called M-Scaler and it will carry a higher price - maybe even approach the DAVE's price. I would be happy with something at the same price point as M-Scaler but just with a few incremental improvements: XMOS USB input plus an isolated or regenerated USB output.

The Choral M scaler will be much more advanced, and priced at Dave levels. It is not a replacement to the Hugo M scaler.

Why XMOS input? There would be zero benefit in changing the current USB implementation. The nonsense that has been posted about the current USB implementation is not based on facts but by someone wanting to sell you something.

 

[Christer]

Most of the distortion and noise comes from the ADC noise shaper but some aliasing comes from the ADC decimation filters too.



Yes 44.1 inputs will be warmer with HF on, and also whilst using the M scaler. Go with whichever works best for you, but on Dave via the M scaler I have it off.



Sure, I have done a huge number of listening tests when the removal of inaudible HF content (for me that's > 16kHz). But in all cases the explanation is not that one can hear the ultrasonic products, but the effect they have on the audio bandwidth; they can increase noise floor modulation in the analogue sections, and the presence of these HF errors (particularly aliasing) will damage transient timing, thus then becoming audible.



The Choral M scaler will be much more advanced, and priced at Dave levels. It is not a replacement to the Hugo M scaler.

Why XMOS input? There would be zero benefit in changing the current USB implementation. The nonsense that has been posted about the current USB implementation is not based on facts but by someone wanting to sell you something.

Hmm, the Mscaler X "much more advanced" hints sound tempting.

But WHY does it have be priced so expensively ???

Why not make it affordable so more musc lovers than a select few who both can and willingly will pay "Dave´s price??

Interesting to hear straight from "the horse´s mouth" your response regarding usb on Dave too.
I personally only had problems with the not galvanically isolated USB on my old Hugo 1, via speakers in my main system .But with Qutest and Mscaler I am still impressed by the high SQ I get from both via my 2 macs and a cheap 2m USB cable.
I have no problems at all to very clearly hear the advantage of Hugo Mscaler via USB and my latop or iMac both via headphones and speakers.


PS. My hint, New York has got both the Lincoln Center and the MET next door.
Why just fly in and out for Canjam? NY has got a lot more to offer even in late February.
The hall where the NY Philharmonic play has got quite good acoustics and will allow one to clearly hear "the sound bouncing of the walls" better than Dave/HMS manage to reveal.
I went there on some of my many NY stopovers to Canada or Costa Rica.


Cheers CC

 

[Light - Man]

^ And don't forget The Staten Island ferry and it is free!

 

[Whazzzup]

Wake me up when Dave 2 released

 

[zen87192]

Wake me up when Dave 2 released

You'll have to resuscitate me! Especially when I go to open my wallet

 

[Whazzzup]

It will mean paddles but ya got to rock my world to make me feel it.

 

[Light - Man]

It will mean paddles but ya got to rock my world to make me feel it.

Would it not be easier just to go into hibernation rather than elect to be put into an induced coma?

Maybe they should rename this thread: Watts Up Doc?

 

[zen87192]

On a serious note though…. I’ve just become a DAVE owner (after much saving, overtime and selling) and would love it if this was priced somewhat sensibly so all owners can ‘join in’ the fun. But….. I think I know what’s coming…. yup….. more overtime.

 

[Progisus]

Even though I have the device to bypass the Mscaler usb, my ears keep telling me that the usb input is the way to go. Thanks Rob for confirming there is no deficiencies with your usb implementation.

 

[Christer]

^ And don't forget The Staten Island ferry and it is free!

Hello Light -Man very OT I know, but Rob is going to NY late February for Canjam and I would save both Staten Island and Ellis Island until later in the year.
NY can still be very wintery in late Feb.
But sometimes nice and warm well into October.
Personally I would much rather go to Singapore this time of the year.
Keeping my fingers crossed that I will finally after two years of Covid misery, be able to go there this autumn.
Who knows maybe Rob will present his new M Scaler X there by then?
I still remember "many years ago" when I stumbled upon him and John Franks at the Adelphi Mall with the now "ancient" product Chord TT tucked under his arm.
Cheers CC

 

[jacc]

The Choral M scaler will be much more advanced, and priced at Dave levels. It is not a replacement to the Hugo M scaler.

Interesting. An advanced M scaler but not its replacement. Can it be a Blu mk3 or even a streamer then?!

 

[Bleach-Free]

Interesting. An advanced M scaler but not its replacement. Can it be a Blu mk3 or even a streamer then?!

That would make sense as I think the original M scaler tech was in the Blu mkII, but that's been discontinued.

 

[stemiki]

That would make sense as I think the original M scaler tech was in the Blu mkII, but that's been discontinued.

Maybe then I won't have to put the M Scaler up for sale?