[Leto Dal]

Interesting maybe it was indeed the seal. Will have another chance to listen to it sometime this year, will pay attention to it. Caldera sounded less airy, but more detailed to layered to me without pushing up the detail upfront, but it was easier to focus on certain aspects / instruments in the track then with Bravura, the sound felt more natural too, but guess its a ZMF thing.

 

[squashi]

Interesting maybe it was indeed the seal. Will have another chance to listen to it sometime this year, will pay attention to it. Caldera sounded less airy, but more detailed to layered to me without pushing up the detail upfront, but it was easier to focus on certain aspects / instruments in the track then with Bravura, the sound felt more natural too, but guess its a ZMF thing.

100% with more ZMF being more natural, Bravura is probably the least "natural" overear I own, (but by no means is it bad) All depends on music and preferences

From what you describe, it does sound like Bravura imaging was lacking! I felt the same about Bravura for the longest time, it didn't feel as "separated" even if it had more details. But when I moved the headphone forward on my head, the stage/imaging improved hugely! Went from a headphone I was going to sell to my favorite. The placement may be a factor for others as well, depending for each person perhaps.

 

[krasch]

The question is, are you disappointed with Bravura bass on most tracks you listen to? or just certain genres? AKA perhaps Bravura is not for you, or perhaps it's only for some genres for you?

Simply put, there are few headphones that can compete with the Bravura on bass texture. Specifically, other headphones with ~Bravura-level bass texture (and with full bass extension) but can deliver greater bass impact would be:
- LCD-4(strong bass! a bit less resolving than Bravura)
- LCD-5(not enhanced bass but the best bass texture, but needs good chain or EQ to be satisfying impact for most people. A bit more resolving than LCD-4),
- Caldera(less resolving than Bravura, but incredibly pleasant sound with strong bass. Honestly would complement Bravura very well, and might be the easiest to drive from this bunch)
- 1266 TC (lowered mids, and needs strong chain. SC cable recommended for natural mids. The bass and soundstage quirks are nice as well! A TOTL 1266 TC chain might resolve as well as Bravura! but expect to pay a lot...)
- Certainly Aperio, not sure about HE-1

The situations in which distortion is most noticeable during my first couple of days with the Bravura, is when the kickdrum is really pumping so to speak. But it differs per track and how the low-end is mixed. In tracks where the bassline fills the majority of the low-end and the kick is eq’ed more to sit behind the bassline the the headphones seem to perform better. When it’s the other way around, the distortion becomes fairly noticeable when the kickdrum hits.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I’m going by the shop this week to do some more demoing and listen with the owner to see what a wise choice would be. Until a week ago I didn’t have that much interest in the headphone world but now I’m on an exciting, however costly :’), journey to discover whether the Bravura will overrule the contenders.

One day I might think about getting something like the Aperio, but for now I would probably be better off not listening to something in that class. Listening to the likes of the Bravura was already a special moment for me, I’d like to save the next special moment for later . But I can’t imagine what an Aperio or HE-1 must sound like!

 

[Purzel]

what I like most on Bravura’s sound is that it just sounds raw to me. listened yesterday to Avenged Sevenfold new album and it’s an amazing experience with the bravura’s. the mids are so glorious the vocals are so good and the drums sound just real and direct. it’s an amazing system with some minor flaws but for the bug nothing will beat it in my opinion. and the small footprint is a big plus for me too. I’m a simple guy I don’t like changing gear I like listen to music. it’s far beyond average with some limitations (distorsion of course which never happened for the kind of music I like and the volume I listen and soundstage could be bigger in my opinion). can’t wait for my Aperio I will love it for sure.

 

[Palyodgree]

what I like most on Bravura’s sound is that it just sounds raw to me. listened yesterday to Avenged Sevenfold new album and it’s an amazing experience with the bravura’s. the mids are so glorious the vocals are so good and the drums sound just real and direct. it’s an amazing system with some minor flaws but for the bug nothing will beat it in my opinion. and the small footprint is a big plus for me too. I’m a simple guy I don’t like changing gear I like listen to music. it’s far beyond average with some limitations (distorsion of course which never happened for the kind of music I like and the volume I listen and soundstage could be bigger in my opinion). can’t wait for my Aperio I will love it for sure.

I agree with everything you have said , I’ve had my Bravura system for almost a year though having a young family my leisure time is very limited using the Bravura though I do get 7-8 hours a day listening to music on my home office system I am currently using a reasonably priced AfterDark server used with Bravura and speaker system sounding more musical and quiter then my previous home brew server recipe from AudioPhileStyle including a Rockna wav Net server .

 

[ardbeg1975]

I lost my mind (shouldn’t drink whisky and shop) and picked up a gently used Aperio. Should arrive next week at which time I’m going to do some A/B of internal DAC vs. T+A DAC200 feed.

In the interim, time to sell some gear to reduce the sting. Anyone looking for a nice, shiny black Bravura system?

Aperio has arrived. Fired it up this afternoon fed via RCA inputs from T+A DAC200. Even better than I remember from sound isolation booth at Axpona. Speed, epic detail, and bass are all present but delivered effortlessly and w/o fatigue. The supplied Ethernet cable is the most overbuilt network cable I’ve ever seen. I brought the wrong Ethernet dongle for my Macbook Air so A/B of DAC200 versus internal DAC (via streaming interface) will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Aperio has arrived. Fired it up this afternoon fed via RCA inputs from T+A DAC200. Even better than I remember from sound isolation booth at Axpona. Speed, epic detail, and bass are all present but delivered effortlessly and w/o fatigue. The supplied Ethernet cable is the most overbuilt network cable I’ve ever seen. I brought the wrong Ethernet dongle for my Macbook Air so A/B of DAC200 versus internal DAC (via streaming interface) will have to wait until tomorrow.

Nice! Congrats! I’d look into a dedicated high end streamer/server to compliment your Aperio, instead of just a MacBook. It might make your listening experience that much better.

 

[ardbeg1975]

Nice! Congrats! I’d look into a dedicated high end streamer/server to compliment your Aperio, instead of just a MacBook. It might make your listening experience that much better.

Thank you. Re: streamer, perhaps. I previously owned a Lumin U2 mini with power supply upgrade. I was better than direct USB in most cases however, the DAC200 USB isolation and signal quality metering indicates the signal quality from the M2 Mac is very solid. I’m going to try out the Aperio’s embedded streamer before I look at an external streamer unit again.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Thank you. Re: streamer, perhaps. I previously owned a Lumin U2 mini with power supply upgrade. I was better than direct USB in most cases however, the DAC200 USB isolation and signal quality metering indicates the signal quality from the M2 Mac is very solid. I’m going to try out the Aperio’s embedded streamer before I look at an external streamer unit again.

The embedded streamer is probably better, but I think a nice server might help out as well. I was skeptical of the server end of things, but with my K50, I got a nice sound quality increase. It sounds like your USB is good, but I'm a big fan of reclocking usb. I use the Innous Phoenix USB and it was a big boost in sound quality. I even use it with my K50 because I think it sounds better. I guess it's all about the power supply. Going off the battery in the MBA is probably good, but you might get a bit better sound quality with a different server. I dunno, maybe not, but it's something to consider.

 

[ardbeg1975]

The embedded streamer is probably better, but I think a nice server might help out as well. I was skeptical of the server end of things, but with my K50, I got a nice sound quality increase. It sounds like your USB is good, but I'm a big fan of reclocking usb. I use the Innous Phoenix USB and it was a big boost in sound quality. I even use it with my K50 because I think it sounds better. I guess it's all about the power supply. Going off the battery in the MBA is probably good, but you might get a bit better sound quality with a different server. I dunno, maybe not, but it's something to consider.

Fair points. I was thinking about a Holo Red DDC to do DSD256 up/resampling over NAA via Ethernet from HQPlayer / Roon on the MBA.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Fair points. I was thinking about a Holo Red DDC to do DSD256 up/resampling over NAA via Ethernet from HQPlayer / Roon on the MBA.

You might still run a bottleneck with the MBA. It's worth experimenting.

Side note: How's the sub-bass on your Aperio? I'm not talking mid-bass; I mean sub-bass. That's one of the Achilles heels of estats. I wonder if the Aperio has answered that question. There are mixed findings. The HE-1 can do it, but the Shang cannot. The Shang has sub-bass, unlike things like the SR1b, but the quantity is lacking. If the Aperio can up the sub-bass, it could be a big winner in my eyes. Especially at a price that is about half of the HE-1.

 

[ardbeg1975]

You might still run a bottleneck with the MBA. It's worth experimenting.

Side note: How's the sub-bass on your Aperio? I'm not talking mid-bass; I mean sub-bass. That's one of the Achilles heels of estats. I wonder if the Aperio has answered that question. There are mixed findings. The HE-1 can do it, but the Shang cannot. The Shang has sub-bass, unlike things like the SR1b, but the quantity is lacking. If the Aperio can up the sub-bass, it could be a big winner in my eyes. Especially at a price that is about half of the HE-1.

I’ll test with “Losing the Light” by Explosions in the Sky in the morning. The intro of that track should settle the subbass handling question.

 

[draytonklammer]

If you don't mind hip-hop, this is a great sub-bass test:


or this

 

[Aetherhole]

For what it’s worth, I remember Cameron (Goldensound) saying the Aperio had the best slam and bass extension of any estat, period. It is relative because it is an estat still, but i remember him saying it competes with the Susvara. The sus had ever so slightly better bass texture, but that’s about it. You can probably watch his YouTube video review of it to confirm.

Such great headphones, the Aperio and the Bravura.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Quite interesting!
I love Porcupine Tree, the new album of The Pinapple Thief is also insanely good.

I have to say, in the 10 minutes or so i listened to both Warwicks i didn't like them that much, but show conditions are always scuffed.