[Ozer]

I'm going to upgrade to a better headphone amp this summer, and I think I need a amp that's much more warm sounding...
 
Right now I have: Dacmagic > La Figaro 332C(like Darkvoice 332) > Sennheiser HD650.

I think my sound signature is too harsh and light sounding... I'm very sensitive against harsh sounding highs. At first I thought I should change headphone, but I've read that Sennheiser HD650 is on the warm sounding side, so now I want to change the amp.... But I need some tips, cause I don't know witch amps are warm sounding. I've tried reading other threads, but I don't find the answers I need....
 
It should be a tube amp, 'cause I like to change tubes. It should be warm sounding, but still have detail. My budget is 700$.....
 
You have to keep in mind that I think that the HD650's is VERY light sounding, and most of you probably don't agree. So for an amp that you think is warm, I maybe think it's light and harsh

 
I appreciate the ones who take time to help me !

 

[stang]

From my calculations, your ears are broken.
 
Joke aside, have you thought about getting a warm sounding DAC? How many different tubes have you tried with the 332 Classic?

 

[theppd]

How about the Decware CSP2?

 

[Ozer]

 
Quote:

From my calculations, your ears are broken.
 
Joke aside, have you thought about getting a warm sounding DAC? How many different tubes have you tried with the 332 Classic?

I'm starting think the same about my ears...

 
It would maybe help getting a more warm sounding DAC, but I don't know if it does that much of a difference as an amp.... I've two pairs of power tubes (Stock ones, NOS Svetlana 6s19-V) and three pairs of driver tubes (stock one, NOS Phillips ECG CV4010, Mullard M8100). I'm using the Svetlana and Mullard tubes right now... I bought the Mullard 'cause others have said that they are warm... They actually made the sound more warm, but not enough.

 
Quote:

How about the Decware CSP2?

That sounds interesting... Will look further on this one...
 
Somebody else who can comment on this amp ? Is it good ?
 

 

[stang]

Well since you say that combination is already bright, I think it will be impossible to achieve a warm sound to your ears. What music do you listen to? What bitrate is it (if you use a computer)? I would try getting a very warm, musical DAC if possible, as I don't really see how tube amp with a warm sounding tube isn't warm enough already. I don't think upgrading tube amps will yield better results to your ears. Woo Audio 6 amps are recommended a LOT or HD650, however. Maybe you ought to give that a shot, a long with a copper recable maybe?

 

[Ozer]

Quote:

Well since you say that combination is already bright, I think it will be impossible to achieve a warm sound to your ears. What music do you listen to? What bitrate is it (if you use a computer)? I would try getting a very warm, musical DAC if possible, as I don't really see how tube amp with a warm sounding tube isn't warm enough already. I don't think upgrading tube amps will yield better results to your ears. Woo Audio 6 amps are recommended a LOT or HD650, however. Maybe you ought to give that a shot, a long with a copper recable maybe?

I Listen to Flac ripped from my CD's, the bitrate is as every Flac, around 1000... Maybe you're right about the DAC.... I think I have to upgrade my amp anyway....
I will look into it a little more, will post again if I find anything about DAC's and stuff....

 

[cws5]

Ozer, I share your view that the DV332 is bright. I own one. Contrary to what some of the posters in this thread have with good intention suggested to you, your ears are not broken, nor is it impossible to achieve a significantly warmer sound with a different amp. 
 
In fact, the DV332 is very, very bright. From my own experiences listening to the DV332, it sounds to me that the amp is by no means linear and shows a pronounced hump at about the 4Khz to 8Khz range. To check this out for yourself, just put an eq in front of it and pull that area way down and you'll see that the high end still comes through without problem. 
 
After first purchasing the amp a while ago, I had a look all around Head-Fi to make sense of the overly bright sound of the amp. If you do the same, you'll find that somebody (I don't remember who) posted on the amp's brightness in about that same range I mention above.
 
Nor is the amp very tubey sounding. There's a very helpful post by cotdt in which that assessment of the DV337 (which shares circuit features with the DV332) is made when compared to some other amps: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/219504/darkvoice-337-a-review#post_2883067 . cotdt is right to say that the DV332 sounds more like a solid state amp than do most tube amps.
 
You might want to have a look at one of my posts here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/267000/darkvoice-336i-vs-332/15#post_6588142 . I discuss the DV332 versus the MG Head MkII in OTL mode.
 
A few warnings: some in this thread have suggested that you might tame the harshness of the DV332 with a non-sampling DAC. Trust me -- that will not work. I have an MHDT Constantine DAC, and it didn't fix the problem. Others have suggested that you might do more tuberolling. In my estimation that won't solve the problem either. In fact, of the various tube amps I've heard, changing tubes on the DV332 affects it much less. I've got all the tubes most name as the best for the amp -- Power: Svetlana 6c19n-b; Ulyanov 6c19n; Ulyanov 6c19n-b; Preamp: CV4010, Ericsson 403B.
 
If you want a tubey amp, pick up an MG Head markII or markIII, and use the OTL mode. You can probably get one pretty cheap these days, since most Head-Fiers are more interested in other, newer amps. Another possibility is the Woo3, though I've not heard one. Yet another possibility -- and maybe a really great one, though I've not yet heard it either-- is the Bottlehead Crack OTL kit. You could get it with the C4S upgrade and have a great amp, learn more about amp circuits, and lose the fatigue you've experienced listening to the DV332. I recently bought a Crack kit and will soon receive it in the mail.
 
Just one last thought: I don't know what sort of music you're listening to. Some who listen to rock music do not like the way the MG Head (and other triode OTL amps) deal with the low end. If you listen mainly to classical, then this is no problem at all. But the C4S upgrade to the Crack will clean up the bass. Have a look at the bottlehead site. Or just get an MG Head, listen in OTL mode, and get used to the sloppy bass. Since the midrange and upper end are done so well by the MG Head, you'll probably learn to accept that relatively sloppy low end.
 

 

[Ozer]

 
Quote:

Ozer, I share your view that the DV332 is bright. I own one. Contrary to what some of the posters in this thread have with good intention suggested to you, your ears are not broken, nor is it impossible to achieve a significantly warmer sound with a different amp. 
 
In fact, the DV332 is very, very bright. From my own experiences listening to the DV332, it sounds to me that the amp is by no means linear and shows a pronounced hump at about the 4Khz to 8Khz range. To check this out for yourself, just put an eq in front of it and pull that area way down and you'll see that the high end still comes through without problem. 
 
After first purchasing the amp a while ago, I had a look all around Head-Fi to make sense of the overly bright sound of the amp. If you do the same, you'll find that somebody (I don't remember who) posted on the amp's brightness in about that same range I mention above.
 
Nor is the amp very tubey sounding. There's a very helpful post by cotdt in which that assessment of the DV337 (which shares circuit features with the DV332) is made when compared to some other amps: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/219504/darkvoice-337-a-review#post_2883067 . cotdt is right to say that the DV332 sounds more like a solid state amp than do most tube amps.
 
You might want to have a look at one of my posts here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/267000/darkvoice-336i-vs-332/15#post_6588142 . I discuss the DV332 versus the MG Head MkII in OTL mode.
 
A few warnings: some in this thread have suggested that you might tame the harshness of the DV332 with a non-sampling DAC. Trust me -- that will not work. I have an MHDT Constantine DAC, and it didn't fix the problem. Others have suggested that you might do more tuberolling. In my estimation that won't solve the problem either. In fact, of the various tube amps I've heard, changing tubes on the DV332 affects it much less. I've got all the tubes most name as the best for the amp -- Power: Svetlana 6c19n-b; Ulyanov 6c19n; Ulyanov 6c19n-b; Preamp: CV4010, Ericsson 403B.
 
If you want a tubey amp, pick up an MG Head markII or markIII, and use the OTL mode. You can probably get one pretty cheap these days, since most Head-Fiers are more interested in other, newer amps. Another possibility is the Woo3, though I've not heard one. Yet another possibility -- and maybe a really great one, though I've not yet heard it either-- is the Bottlehead Crack OTL kit. You could get it with the C4S upgrade and have a great amp, learn more about amp circuits, and lose the fatigue you've experienced listening to the DV332. I recently bought a Crack kit and will soon receive it in the mail.
 
Just one last thought: I don't know what sort of music you're listening to. Some who listen to rock music do not like the way the MG Head (and other triode OTL amps) deal with the low end. If you listen mainly to classical, then this is no problem at all. But the C4S upgrade to the Crack will clean up the bass. Have a look at the bottlehead site. Or just get an MG Head, listen in OTL mode, and get used to the sloppy bass. Since the midrange and upper end are done so well by the MG Head, you'll probably learn to accept that relatively sloppy low end.
 

 
I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one

I'm searching for a warm amp now...
 

 

[Skylab]

Yeah, the DV332 had the rep of being bright sounding.  I never heard one myself.
 
Regarding the CSP-2, while I think incredibly highly of it, it's not warm sounding.  It's very neutral.  A tiny bit of tube richness in the mids, but I would not buy one thinking it will warm things up.
 
The Ming Da MC 84 C07 is on the warm side, but sounds great, and lots of people love it with Senns. 

 

[Ozer]

Quote:

Yeah, the DV332 had the rep of being bright sounding.  I never heard one myself.
 
Regarding the CSP-2, while I think incredibly highly of it, it's not warm sounding.  It's very neutral.  A tiny bit of tube richness in the mids, but I would not buy one thinking it will warm things up.
 
The Ming Da MC 84 C07 is on the warm side, but sounds great, and lots of people love it with Senns. 

Thanks for the tip Skylab.... But I think I will go for something more expensive.... like 700$, I don't just want to change my amp, but upgrade... Any tips on other amps for around 700$ that is warm sounding. It would be great if it has a great choice of tubes too, and not too expensive ones...

 

[mulveling]

Just extrapolating a bit here, but there's an older (in this context, older is better) 6CG7 Singlepower PPX3 on Audiogon that might be sonically right up your alley. Standard Singlepower caveats apply, so the prerequisite is that you either need to be a fast learner or have access to a decent tube tech.
 
These amps can be an excellent match for efficient higher impedance headphones like the HD650.

 

[Ozer]

I really need to find an amp now...

  I've thought about it now, and people here on the forum says that La Figaro 332C is VERY bright... and I don't dislike the amp because it's light sounding, I just think I want to have somewhat more warmth... So I'm more open for amps now... I'm not in need of an very warm amp anymore, but it should lean on the warmer side rather than the light side....
 
And I've also raised my bar on the budget a bit... But only in special cases, so my budget is still 700$ with some exceptions.
 
Another thing, I've forgot that if I buy an amp outside EU (I live in Sweden) I will probably have to pay import duties.... And here in Sweden that's like 40% of the price

. You don't have to check if I can get in EU, I will do that my self, but as it's very hard to find anything here in EU, I will reply that "I can't buy that", to many of your tips.

  Damn import duties !!

 

 

[Spareribs]

I vote for the Ming da amp. If you can give an audition, it sounds deliciously full and warm.I'm a fan of these particular Chinese amps. You can return it if you purchase from pacific valve distributer. I've had this amp for about a year and I still like it.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Thanks for the tip Skylab.... But I think I will go for something more expensive.... like 700$, I don't just want to change my amp, but upgrade... Any tips on other amps for around 700$ that is warm sounding. It would be great if it has a great choice of tubes too, and not too expensive ones...

Hmmm...well the CSP-2 is my go-to amp in the $700 price range - I think it beats amps that are more expensive.  But as I said, it's not really "warm" sounding, per se.
 
The Darkvoice 337 might be your best bet.  It is for sure a little warm-sounding.  And you can make it warmer still with the right tubes.  GREAT sounding amp, too, and quite the bargain.  As long as you have the space (it's pretty big), and you don't mind the dual-volume controls, it's a very nice amp, and is about $700 with shipping.  Note I am referring to the regular version - I have never heard the SE version.

 

[Ozer]

 
Quote:

I vote for the Ming da amp. If you can give an audition, it sounds deliciously full and warm.I'm a fan of these particular Chinese amps. You can return it if you purchase from pacific valve distributer. I've had this amp for about a year and I still like it.

Yeah it looks promising... But I can't buy it inside EU, and I can't even find where to buy it outside EU

  I can't buy from Pacific Valve... It could be an temporary error, but when I click checkout and write address and stuff, you have to choose the Shipping method, the problem is that I can only choose "ground".... When I try to click continue, it will show an error massage: "The shipping method you specified is not available to your address." 

. Anyways I need to be able to buy inside EU...