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I never said Hip-Hop was dead, part of the problem is the Labels that push Hip-Hop into being what it shouldn't be along with the audience picking parts that doesn't really represent hip-hop to its fullest.
I never said that you said it, either, just the consensus of the masses that I really don't think understand hip hop, haha.
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Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No, no, no, it was evolving. From Busy B to Big L, you can see the evolution of lyricism quite clearly. Hip-Hop heads that grew up with lyricism at the forefront will know this and see it had actually degraded. The reason we don't care much for the newer/mainstream stuff is the rappers don't even have a sense lyricism. No wit, no clever lines, nothing that can make you go "oh **** did he just say that" or keep you thinking of what was just said causing you to not focus on the rest of the verse and now you have to hit the damn replay button. (I have much more things to pick on but I will leave it at that for now) None of the rappers that Kendrick mentioned have any allure to them lyrically. I will stick with lesser known dudes such as Fred the Godson, that is in a true sense, a lyricist.
Honestly, if you want too look at the actual evolution of lyricism, they are active in the battle realm everyday spitting the most insane lines which the mainstream rappers lack in all categories. Getting their 15-50 thousand views on youtube and that's it. I feel sorry for them as what they are doing is nothing less than amazing. Hell they don't even need a mic, they just need an audience willing to listen to lyrical enlightenment. Oh and one last thing, the highest form of lyricism is so underground, that the best lyricists don't even rap themselves lol
That was exactly my point. I see around me real talents that are in it for the love of the art, nothing less, nothing more. When it comes to mainstream, rappers that came from underground of course has to dumb their lyrics down for the masses, but that doesn't mean that they don't have it in them. Just because they're mainstream doesn't mean they're not lyrical by default. Of course on the airwaves, their purpose is to create a hit. But does that mean their entire discography sucks? Being underground by its definition doesn't automatically make them superior. Some mainstream rappers built their reputation as respected underground rappers. They're just in a different game now, but they can always return to their roots with mixtapes, concept albums, experimental, etc. Going back to the fundamentals is Kendrick's point. It's not that he's trying to do what he thinks he can do; it's returning to what he used to do, and urging others to do the same. Directed to the new generation, he's telling them to improve their game, and to the OGs, to set an example for the youngins. If he has to be insolent about it, so be it. This is hip hop.
And yes, it's still evolving. Hip hop is not just mainstream, and it's been thriving in underground scenes, as you know.
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Here's the problem though, it still is like an adolescent trying to be treated as an adult. Let me elaborate:
There are still active rappers that perform fine and dandy that has lyricism at the forefront of their music. Save for meek, most of the rappers he mentioned are probably not even battle tested to begin with. How is this supposed to push them to be more lyrical when lyricism isn't even ingrained to their head yet?
You can look at Fabo, he was a young hot spitter from brooklyn that doesn't lack much as a lyricist then fffff over since he can't push lyricism in his music as much as he wanted and marketed at the same time. Yet I could still look forward to him dropping ill verses now and then since I know lyricism is within him given the right circumstances to do an ill verse.
Now replace Fabo in the last part with any lyrical rapper you know: Joe Budden, Joell, Papoose....and the list goes on.
Now you have a bevy of rappers with the skill set respected through mixtapes and seen by hip-hop heads as strong lyricists. Now what will these hip-hop heads think when mainstream rappers are suddenly going to try to be lyrical? claiming king of what can't be claimed? It's either a big joke or a complete disrespect to the rappers that has already made a name for themselves.
I can take hopsin or fred the godson over any of those guys actually, I only mentioned fred a couple times already since he has already responded to the verse and he brought up a lot of extremely good points which I would write myself but I will leave it to you to listen to.
I don't think you're giving him enough credit, but to each his own. In the end, it comes down to a matter of taste as there are different traits that people gravitate towards when it comes to lyricism. For example, Nas has never concentrated on the pure technicalities like Rakim, but he's a self proclaimed thug narrator and lives up to the title; he paints pictures with his words. Eminem, on the other hand, is a monster when it comes to technical rhyming, getting down to the gritty details of linguistic elements. Then there's the conscious/political rap that Lupe, Public Enemy, KRS-One, El-P, Black Star, etc. excel in. The kicker is, they can do well in each realm if they decided to. Finding the balance among these has been my goal as a rhymer.
Kendrick is only a handful of mainstream rappers that can juggle both underground and mainstream audience. He was respected deeply in the underground world when he was an up and comer. His main draw is the fact that his albums are very thematically cohesive, which many fail to grasp. He's definitely proficient enough to be technical, conscious, and narrative. Again, he might have stepped over the line a bit, but I see the potential in him. It's not that he's "suddenly going to try to be lyrical" because he's been lyrical all along. Most he mentioned will try to, but not Kendrick. He's had it. Just because he recently went mainstream doesn't mean he was never lyrical. He just has that rare gift to juggle both as stated above. I honestly don't know what you see (or none thereof) in Kendrick to say that lyricism hasn't even been ingrained in his head yet, but again, to each his own. Let the kids learn and grow, the hard way, the hip hop way.
I personally prefer K.R.I.T. to Hopsin, but Godson, his wordplays are extraordinary. Still waiting on Loso's response; he was eager to get back in the studio for Kendrick. Damn, I enjoy discussing hip hop like this especially because it's hard to find someone who's knowledgeable outside of my immediate rap circle these days. Keep it up.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the importance of the contents of the lyrics. I feel closer to certain rappers since I can relate to their experiences, which in turn makes me appreciate them more than others. This is a very subjective thing, of course. In this sense, I sometimes like stupid mainstream tracks to party to as they get everyone going crazy, haha. Versatility is the key.
then again this was waaaaay back here, sounds like an average fast food place now... guess you can keep it ...
