[nastynice]

One of the guys I always felt was kinda underrated even within the underground circles was Rasco.  Dude flow was just so on point
 

 
 

 
^^Are those scratches perfect or what.  yup, perfection really the only way to describe it, pb wolf on the turntables.  ok, I'm a chill out now, haha, I just got too excited, had no clue there was a hip hop thread here

 

[JuanseAmador]

I despise modern rappers, I really think they are soul-less.

I don't think its fair to say that, everybody got their own style, their own artform.  I think the thing I miss from most modern rappers tho is the lack of knowledge, the lack of a message, like they used to BREAK IT DOWN back in the day.  I remember that Bells of War track off Wu Tang Forever, RZA like "I told shorty you ain't even gotta go to summer school, pick up the wu tang double cd n u'll get all the knowledge u need this year", lol, so true!!  Its definitely not like that anymore
 
Some nice underground still out there tho, there's this label called "mello music group", they got a real good thing going on, and they get rappers and djs from all over the states, west coast, east coast, midwest, down south.  This is their bandcamp page, oh they even got some OGs up in there, like Pete Rock, absolute legend  
https://mellomusicgroup.bandcamp.com/
 
Some real unique producers and production.  I'm not to schooled on them, I only came across a couple things recently, but one thing I do know is the talent is heavy

I mean, yeah, I know the underground scene is soaked up with talent. What I mean is that what is regarded as good and artistic rap nowadays is really awful and vague in my eyes. Of course, this is mainstream rap we are talking about.

I listen to Aesop (his lyrics can't be topped), Eyedea & Abilities, Atmosphere and the like, in the underground (although quite popular) department.

 

[razevi3]

   
 
I never felt the same about TPAB as I did GKMC. Felt like generic rap over john coltrane beats, although I will give his voice control major props. He really did use his voice like a brass instrument. Altogether, I just can't get into music for the sake of telling everybody how great you are at music and I think this was his weakest storytelling of any of his releases so far. 
 
I'll give it a few more spins as I'm sure there is a lot I'm missing but I too think the critical acclaim is mainly because it is kendrick, not because it is an amazing album.

It's not about the delivery itself, but the message that keeps GKMC and TPAB together, especially the latter. To quote Kendrick, "This is ‘sophisticated gangsta’ ****... This is the album that I always wanted to make. It’s what I grew up on. good kid, m.A.A.d city, I maneuvered through the cracks. I know what the fans wanted to hear.” In that sense, GKMC was more "for the sake of telling everybody how great [he is] at music" than TPAB. If you truly think that this album is "his weakest storytelling of any his releases so far," I respectfully disagree and must implore that you explore the themes of the album and see the big picture. Why the title? Why the progression of the tracks? Why the need to change his vocal delivery? Why the focus on blues/jazz? When taken out of context, all these elements work against one another. But taken as a whole? It creates a cohesive vision. 
 
No, it's not because "it is kendrick." This album, to me at least, IS game changing. Rap has been for too long generalized as a certain type of sound, but the true nature of the art is that it's always been plastic to not only represent the themes of our culture, but also to elevate them whenever necessary. I see some hip hop heads complaining about artists employing EDM beats for their verses, but...why? Why is that so bad? Who gets to define how rap is supposed to sound? Someone who only sticks to the 90s, the "golden age" of hip hop? Damn, even Nas and Primo have problems with these notions. This is exactly why we'll never see Illmatic 2 like fans have been asking for the longest time. True artists always innovate and do not fall back on the tropes of the "art."
 
I keep saying this over and over to my hip hop heads and fellow rhymers/poets (on this forum too): how the hell are we going to evolve if we keep sticking to our old ways? I seriously cannot understand the notion that the status of a rapper as being underground or mainstream dictates their talents. Sure, some modern rappers provide nothing constructive to this game, but there are some that also provide new insights on how the game should evolve. Kendrick is one of them, obviously, but there are also KRIT, Logic, and many other underground rappers who blend many musical genres to fit their objectives.
 
One more thing: it's obvious that a lot of the members who post in this thread are vastly knowledgeable about rap history. I don't doubt that, but I still see a lot of superiority complex about who knows what better about hip hop. Leave that out in the discussions and let's focus on the arguments themselves.

 

[NoxNoctum]

I don't "get" most rap but I really really like these two (don't write it off immediately cause I just said that hah):
 
(I think part of it is that I really dig the melodies they use)
 

 

 

[wink]

Rap is not music. Its intoned doggerel.

 

[razevi3]

I will take your advice and never use your comment as anything substantive. Truly amazed on your foresight. Please continue

 

[nastynice]

  Rap is not music. Its intoned doggerel.

 
hmm, I find it weird that its the lyricism that you bash, cuz that's rap's strength.  Easily the most lyrically superior form of art along with poetry.
 
c'mon, what other kinda music can even come close to putting words together like this.  Even the rhymes got rhymes!! lol
 

 

[nastynice]

I mean, yeah, I know the underground scene is soaked up with talent. What I mean is that what is regarded as good and artistic rap nowadays is really awful and vague in my eyes. Of course, this is mainstream rap we are talking about.

I listen to Aesop (his lyrics can't be topped), Eyedea & Abilities, Atmosphere and the like, in the underground (although quite popular) department.

 
Nice, yea, that Labor Days album is sick.  Love atmosphere too, he's been in the game for a while now

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

  I don't think its fair to say that, everybody got their own style, their own artform.  I think the thing I miss from most modern rappers tho is the lack of knowledge, the lack of a message, like they used to BREAK IT DOWN back in the day.  I remember that Bells of War track off Wu Tang Forever, RZA like "I told shorty you ain't even gotta go to summer school, pick up the wu tang double cd n u'll get all the knowledge u need this year", lol, so true!!  Its definitely not like that anymore
 
Some nice underground still out there tho, there's this label called "mello music group", they got a real good thing going on, and they get rappers and djs from all over the states, west coast, east coast, midwest, down south.  This is their bandcamp page, oh they even got some OGs up in there, like Pete Rock, absolute legend  
https://mellomusicgroup.bandcamp.com/
 
Some real unique producers and production.  I'm not to schooled on them, I only came across a couple things recently, but one thing I do know is the talent is heavy

MelloMusicGroup is defo one of the best labels around. How to Kill God and March on Washington were 2 of the best albums that released last year and I didn't even fully explore all of their offerings.
 
The decent rappers in mainstream tend to be talking about their experiences a lot; everything from girl-family problems, to their friendship, childhood and how that impacted them. I get it but it isn't the most vibeable topics to nod your head through. Yea, everybody got personal issues at one point in their life but I can barely relate to "having a epiphany with that one girl I sticked it to through at the age of 16 that ended up changing how I now view my life"

  Rap is not music. Its intoned doggerel.

That was insightful, please enlighten us further.
 

  implore that you explore the themes of the album and see the big picture. Why the title? Why the progression of the tracks? Why the need to change his vocal delivery? Why the focus on blues/jazz? When taken out of context, all these elements work against one another. But taken as a whole? It creates a cohesive vision. 
 
No, it's not because "it is kendrick." This album, to me at least, IS game changing. Rap has been for too long generalized as a certain type of sound, but the true nature of the art is that it's always been plastic to not only represent the themes of our culture, but also to elevate them whenever necessary. I see some hip hop heads complaining about artists employing EDM beats for their verses, but...why? Why is that so bad? Who gets to define how rap is supposed to sound? Someone who only sticks to the 90s, the "golden age" of hip hop? Damn, even Nas and Primo have problems with these notions. This is exactly why we'll never see Illmatic 2 like fans have been asking for the longest time. True artists always innovate and do not fall back on the tropes of the "art."
 

You really think all those question don't apply to the other thousand rappers that put in just as much work in their music as Kendrick?
 

  I keep saying this over and over to my hip hop heads and fellow rhymers/poets (on this forum too): how the hell are we going to evolve if we keep sticking to our old ways? I seriously cannot understand the notion that the status of a rapper as being underground or mainstream dictates their talents. Sure, some modern rappers provide nothing constructive to this game, but there are some that also provide new insights on how the game should evolve. Kendrick is one of them, obviously, but there are also KRIT, Logic, and many other underground rappers who blend many musical genres to fit their objectives.
 
One more thing: it's obvious that a lot of the members who post in this thread are vastly knowledgeable about rap history. I don't doubt that, but I still see a lot of superiority complex about who knows what better about hip hop. Leave that out in the discussions and let's focus on the arguments themselves.

Connect those 2 together and you will begin to understand why his music isn't game-changing at all. One of the things that are quite noticeable when newer fans voice their opinion on an album is that they really haven't listened to enough albums (not talking about you specifically). Think about how much of a big deal/effort it is to release an album compared to having a hot single when it was in the 90's to now. When a decent album is actually released out of the all mess that is modern-day mainstream hip-hop, it is hailed as a classic but really it is just amazing compared to the crap that is being released today. This is not about having a superiority complex, it is just keeping it real with you. 

 

[wink]

Quote:razevi3

 I will take your advice and never use your comment as anything substantive. Truly amazed on your foresight. Please continue

Quote:nastynice

  hmm, I find it weird that its the lyricism that you bash, cuz that's rap's strength.  Easily the most lyrically superior form of art along with poetry.
 
c'mon, what other kinda music can even come close to putting words together like this.  Even the rhymes got rhymes!! lol

Quote:KamijolsMyHero

 That was insightful, please enlighten us further.

 
C'mon folks. Don't you know the difference between singing and reciting poetry.
 
Rap is poetry. put to a driving beat.
 
Singing is vocalising with different notes that are not your normal speaking voice. This is Music 101.
 
This is singing:-
 

 
Or this - a little faster.:-

 
Or, even this:-
 

 
And, this:-

 
Note the different notes......
 

 

 

 
 
Note there is vocal range. not just the speaking voice rhythmically reciting poetry/doggerel.

 

[Change is Good]

Blah

 

[preproman]

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

Rappers have something called "delivery/flow" it is how a rapper "recites" (using your term) his lyrics using different enunciations and stresses of the various part of his lyrics needing stresses and enunciations. But really though, that is just our version of vocalizing, the same way various metal genres have their version of vocalizing in their growls and screams. It is whatever pleasing to the ear that determines what is music.

It is true that the beat will be a "driving force" for rhythm however, take away the beat and rapper's delivery will still carry the rhythm, well the decent rappers anyway.

I can only think of 2 rappers that can talk the same way they rap.

Rappers don't recite poetry they rap it.

That's just listening to the sounds that comes out of their mouth though. The other part is what nastynice said in his post. If you don't understand his post, then you haven't given hip-hop a true listen.

 

[dakanao]

This is what I call ''flowing''
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPquHzyg7K8
 
On 0:16

 

[nastynice]

   
 
 
Note there is vocal range. not just the speaking voice rhythmically reciting poetry/doggerel.

 
oh I guess I didn't really know what you meant, I googled doggerel and it gave this definition
 
"verse or words that are badly written or expressed", which is why I was saying that's so weird because its the words which put rap on a higher level than other music.
 
There actually DEFINITELY IS vocal range in rap, and its actually pretty huge part of it, but I can see why if you are used to listening to singing why it would seem rap doesn't have range.