[AlwaysForward]

Any one have any experience with the JBL Quantum One? Uses a inear mic for HRTFcalibration.

I’m sure it is not that different than the system deployed in the AirPods Max. It’s probably a later generation of the system from the N90Q

They’re probably measuring the sound inside the chamber but to realize true HRTF, the sensor needs a precise geometric sensing capability like a LiDAR or the multi-point beams from the Apple ID. Microphones can’t do this.

I’m hopeful for Apple’s depth sensor technology to make it into their headphones. However, the Crosswave removed the need for digital processing by interacting with the ear’s natural HRTF.

Another system that reasonably achieves personal HRTF is Audeze Reveal+ by taking the images of your ear and reconstructing a geometric model for processing. This measurement is not achieved inside of an earcup due to RGB imaging not working properly in the dark.

 

[561915]

I think I saw VZR listed as an exhibitor at CanJam SoCal.. could see a lot of new people sharing impressions during and after.

Here’s to hoping! I think they’re pretty solid for the price and the only real complaints to be found for them to me is a tuning preference. (Maybe a bit more mids sometimes)

I’m sure it is not that different than the system deployed in the AirPods Max. It’s probably a later generation of the system from the A90Q

They’re probably measuring the sound inside the chamber but to realize true HRTF, the sensor needs a precise geometric sensing capability like a LiDAR or the multi-point beams from the Apple ID. Microphones can’t do this.

I’m hopeful for Apple’s depth sensor technology to make it into their headphones. However, the Crosswave removed the need for digital processing by interacting with the ear’s natural HRTF.

Another system that reasonably achieves personal HRTF is Audeze Reveal+ by taking the images of your ear and reconstructing a geometric model for processing. This measurement is not achieved inside of an earcup due to RGB imaging not working properly in the dark.

The only possible issue with the CrossWave implementation of HRTF is one has such abnormally shaped ears that it doesn’t match the desired boundaries for outer ear dimensions. Or if you don’t place the driver correctly on your ear. It took me a while to find the right placement and ear pad squishage for optimal sound but once I found it, it’s fairly easy to find it again. (For me the best way to do this is to imagine the center tear drop shooting directly into my ear canal)

On other complaints in the thread, weight could totally be an issue if you are used to light headphones or have weak neck muscles. I wear an almost 3.5lb motorcycle helmet for hours on end so no headphone has really posed any weight issues for me. Also, the perceived sound can be hit or miss with the source material. Poorly mastered tracks fare poorly, not because they sound harsh, but because they lose life even more so. They are like a magnifying glass, enlarging what's already there.

To everyone here: If you like them, great. I love mine and probably won’t be getting rid of them anytime soon. If you don’t like yours, that works too. Find something that you love. That’s the fun of this hobby.

 

[AudioManNewb]

$349 is a big investment for me. In your opinion is this a worthy investment?

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Has this FR graph been posted here yet? It's from the person on YouTube with the most detailed review so far

From this graph it does seem to confirm that the midrange is somewhat pushed back, generally if going by the graph the ~320Hz bump seems overly excessive that I'd guess around -3dB decrease might do very nice for this headphone (I usually find as a rule of the thumb roughly half an adjustment, say if graph shows 6dB bump or decrease, like 3dB is more suitable adjustment) seems to be as well as giving it some slight midrange boost say 1-2 dB between 500 ~ 4kHz range would probably make it sound overall more balanced, would be interesting if someone could try EQ like that and see how it sounds like

Ie. (rounding down to 10-band EQ options) something like

250Hz: -2.5 ~ -3dB
500Hz: +0.5 ~ +1dB
1kHz: +1dB
2kHz: +1.5dB
4kHz: +0.5 ~ +1dB

 

[AlwaysForward]

Has this FR graph been posted here yet? It's from the person on YouTube with the most detailed review so far

From this graph it does seem to confirm that the midrange is somewhat pushed back, generally if going by the graph the ~320Hz bump seems overly excessive that I'd guess around -3dB decrease might do very nice for this headphone (I usually find as a rule of the thumb roughly half an adjustment, say if graph shows 6dB bump or decrease, like 3dB is more suitable adjustment) seems to be as well as giving it some slight midrange boost say 1-2 dB between 500 ~ 4kHz range would probably make it sound overall more balanced, would be interesting if someone could try EQ like that and see how it sounds like

Ie. (rounding down to 10-band EQ options) something like

250Hz: -3dB
500Hz: +0.5 ~ +1dB
1kHz: +1dB
2kHz: +1.5dB
4kHz: +0.5 ~ +1dB

I’m glad to see measurements. I remember the founders discussions on FR/Measurements from their Reddit AMA. They dropped a few quips that piqued my curiosity prior to making my order. Since we are now finding measurements, it’s probably important to keep in mind some of these details:

1. “We found our curve is closer to the Harman curve in general shape/trend, but we find we wanted our very own tweaks to address the dislikes we found with several curves out there. Please understand how a headphone shakes, bone-conduction, etc., and that energy needs to be taken into account. It's a very complex process and we think many people appreciate just how well-balanced it sounds, across the entire spectrum.”
2. “[VIC answer]: FR is very useful for development purposes, and allows us to iterate and tune to what we think sounds good.
   As far as publishing a FR curve, we’ve thought about it for a long time, actually, realizing that it is somewhat fashionable for folks to share/discuss FR charts and we decided against it. Why? After 30+ years of designing audio equipment, and nearly 20 years of designing headphones (for example at Apple), and having personally made thousands of FR measurements over the years, I felt that FR curves really only give a small glimpse into what’s really happening.
   I’ve built and designed my own HATS, in fact, at Apple for specific use. I’ve used GRAS, B&K, and more - I understand the general interest. I can tell you 100% that NO TWO MEASUREMENTS are 100% alike. This is due to differences with ear pad placement/squish, earpad acoustics, minute driver differences, distance to microphone, etc
   As a thought experiment, go ahead and google a well-documented and measured headphone (google FR graph images)… every single measurement is slightly different. This is due to the aforementioned issues above.
   As a car guy, I can relate with the following: it’s kind of like measuring horsepower/torque with your very own dyno. The data from the dyno is useful, but it doesn’t tell you everything about its performance, for example how it handles, drag race vs race track performance, and so on.
   That being said, we VERY MUCH ENCOURAGE folks to measure it, in fact we’ll be sending out more units to audiophile reviewers, and we’re happy to see what they think about their own measurements. In fact, as a fellow tweaker, we encourage people to tweak and come up with their own ideas of what can be done to make the Model One better for them!
   We do think that our headphone, based on our own measurements, is in the ball park of headphones that adhere to good engineering practices… and we think it sounds great. We think it’s one heck of a bargain, for what you get!
   -------------
   Adding a comment from below here as well relevant to this discusion:
   BTW we do find some interesting things with regards to FR. First, we're not the only ones who don't self-publish; many well-known brands do not as well. For example, when you to Drop.com and look at the headphones there, including the more famous ones mentioned in this thread, they're not self-published... They're from a third-party like head-fi. Many other high-end, well-respected brands also don't self-publish. As a manufacturer, we find, a raw FR graph lacks context, which is probably why many other headphone companies also do not self-publish.”

 

[AlwaysForward]

If we assume that bass arriving at the back of the ear tickles bone condition (I have no idea, just kinda sounds reasonable in my mind), it’s a clear example of above point about torque.

I’m particularly interested in a comparison in frequency responses at the inner ear on something like that giga-bucks B&K measurements rig comparing speakers with the VZR. And maybe the Stealth, since it’s just about a perfect Harman curvez

 

[Devodonaldson]

I think I saw VZR listed as an exhibitor at CanJam SoCal.. could see a lot of new people sharing impressions during and after.

They were. That's where I first heard them. I did a comparison at the show between that and the Audeze gx. I played a call of duty video from my phone and decided with both, and with the VZR I was able to tell what direction sounds were coming from as the video turned toward that direction to fire, or see the helicopter, etc. On the LCD GX sounds just blended together. Sounded good, but was not able to pin point, and I was looking for a gaming and movie watching headphone. After this demo, I ordered a pair from their website. I've Been using it ever since as my gaming and video watching set at my desk.

 

[561915]

$349 is a big investment for me. In your opinion is this a worthy investment?

In my opinion, and for my purposes, yes. I consider these a worthy investment. If you like playing games or watching movies and hearing accurate spatial audio, or need a pair of trustworthy studio cans, they're borderline revolutionary. Source gear doesn't matter that much, but better source gear definitely offers improvements. They're still headphones, but they're pretty dam good headphones. Games is where they really shine (I play CSGO, COD, and used to play a ton of Siege but have actually not tried it through these headphones yet) The directional cues are very accurate and crisp to my ears. Very easy to get immersed in single-player games. If you don't mind the weight and don't have clamp issues (this can somewhat be remedied by physically pulling the headband outwards, its made of steel iirc) they are worth the price in my book. If you've got $349 to spend on headphones and have similar purposes as me, you likely won't be disappointed.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I don't game at all. Big music nerd, emphasis on nerd. IMHO, as I've stated many times: I believe that these are among the greatest closed back headphone releases of all time and recommend them for all stated purposes: Audiophile, Studio, Games - without reservation.

You may find them heavy, or prefer to optimize for a different tuning / performance quality (such as transient response over tuning at baseline + add eq).

It can take days to fully start to perceive what these are doing for music. We naturally start with a mental reference point that doesn't really point to what these are doing in the image presented. It reminds me of when HDTV first hit, I had been so used to traditional images that I didn't perceive a substantial gap at first impression but over time could not go back.

 

[AlwaysForward]

A quick thought I had this morning;

The 3k peak for ear gain in a traditional curve is to emulate what our brain is naturally expecting with natural sounds.

Headphones don’t produce this ear gain interaction, so we correct for it’s perception with a boost in that region.

If Crosswave is producing a natural ear gain interaction, there is not a need for a traditional boost in that region.

I’m certain that these are more of a warm sound in that region than a Harman Curve, but I don’t think it’s sucked out in the way that the graph suggests because of this physical effect.

@RPGWiZaRD I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts and impressions once you have a chance to try them.

 

[Mhog55]

What size are the ear cup connections?

 

[AlwaysForward]

What size are the ear cup connections?

Big, like an LCD

 

[Devodonaldson]

What size are the ear cup connections?

3.5mm

 

[dougms3]

Alright @AlwaysForward, you've convinced me to try this headphone.

I hope you're right about the bass, I have my doubts that it will outbass my modded sony z7m2 and focal clears but I'll give em a twirl since theres pretty much no risk in trying them out.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Alright @AlwaysForward, you've convinced me to try this headphone.

I hope you're right about the bass, I have my doubts that it will outbass my modded sony z7m2 and focal clears but I'll give em a twirl since theres pretty much no risk in trying them out.

Righteous. I hope you enjoy the experience. It’s so different that it may take a few days to sink into the presentation and really become aware of all the things going on. On the topic of bass, I think these have a bone conduction property that leads to the “felt” bass which other cans simply cannot achieve.

While some special drivers have been designed for this purpose, they rarely achieve the kind of reference sound profile an audiophile or studio pro is primarily interested in.

I’ve heard the Clear. I’m pretty confident about the bass superiority here. Will be quite interested to hear about the compare and contrast from your perspective.