[AlwaysForward]

Oh and while headphone state of the art design is just now starting to converge on harman-esque tuning ideals and exploration of widgets between the driver and the ear, speakers became consistently awesome after Floyd Toole figured out the whole flat tuning in an anechoic chamber thing about 30 years ago. We take for granted how good we have it with speakers. 30 years from now, we won't have bad headphone tunings:

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/bas/0609/

This is why we can be certain about reference speakers, at least. We are just now starting to converge on truly reference quality headphones worthy of mastering.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

On the topic of bass, I think these have a bone conduction property that leads to the “felt” bass which other cans simply cannot achieve.

That's something I've been trying to find as an alternative to M-Audio Q40 but it's been hard, I've listened to headphones that had both more or less bass output but none has had that fun ability to give some ear vibration sensation without pushing the volume to damaging levels. I would love to know what's causing that though, in Q40's case I assume it might have to do with the driver sits inside a cage-like enclosure that is just tiny bit bigger than the driver which leads to the driver being able to slightly move around which I assume caused additional vibrations to the cups that translates to vibration felt on the ears, it's very addictive when listening to EDM in particular to "feel" the beats, adds more energy and makes you wanna dance sorta.

Taction Kannons that I also own that have built-in bass transducers into the headphone will give vibrations with beats as well but the headphone isn't quite as good from sound quality perspective (still pretty decent I'd say) and I have the problem with the way that technology works is it vibrates at different strengths depending on frequency the bass peaks at while the Q40 seems to vibrate roughly the same in the entire bass range, that is particularly an issue with Hardstyle music where the bass is pitched around various bass frequencies so if one bass pitch note comes across as stronger despite the technically peak at the same level it waters down the experience a lot.

 

[AlwaysForward]

That's something I've been trying to find as an alternative to M-Audio Q40 but it's been hard, I've listened to headphones that had more or less bass output but none has had that fun ability to give some ear vibration sensation without pushing the volume to damaging levels. I would love to know what's causing that though, in Q40's case I assume it might have to do with the driver sits inside a cage-like enclosure that is just tiny bit bigger than the driver which leads to the driver being able to slightly move around which I assume caused additional vibrations to the cups that translates to vibration felt on the ears, it's very addictive when listening to EDM in particular to "feel" the beats, adds more energy and makes you wanna dance sorta.

I believe it’s from how the Crosswave interacts with the outer ear:

https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...o+AND+IN/Victor&RS=IN/Tiscareno+AND+IN/Victor

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I believe it’s from how the Crosswave interacts with the outer ear:

https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=Tiscareno.INNM.&s2=Victor.INNM.&OS=IN/Tiscareno+AND+IN/Victor&RS=IN/Tiscareno+AND+IN/Victor

One YouTube reviewer I referred to earlier in this thread also mentioned this headphone vibrates more his upper-earlobe when some other planar magnetic ones would vibrate his lower earlobe, probably it has to do with the Crosswave design.

 

[dstarr3]

https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=16486

There's the paper all this Harman stuff is based on. I work at a library, I'll see if I can access it for free tomorrow.

I'm not sure there's any point debating the relevance of the Harman curve without reading up on how the initial conclusion was tested and reached. I don't remember specifics, but I feel like I remember that the sample size of listeners that were tested was very small, so not only is the Harman curve merely just a slightly-scientifically-backed preference, but it's only a slightly-scientifically-backed preference of just a handful of people.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I agree that one should probably read up before debating. The 2012 paper is where the information started. A more recent public update is available here: https://www.listeninc.com/wp/media/Perception_and_-Measurement_of_Headphones_Sean_Olive.pdf

 

[dstarr3]

There you go. The whole thing Harman target thing is based on the opinions of 238 random people. Hardly exhaustive.

I'm surprised people put so much stock in the Harman curve considering Harman basically ruined every headphone company they've touched.

 

[AlwaysForward]

There you go. The whole thing Harman target thing is based on the opinions of 238 random people. Hardly exhaustive.

I'm surprised people put so much stock in the Harman curve considering Harman basically ruined every headphone company they've touched.

There are 132 pages of context for all to read. Productive product research and product design tends to include user research and user testing when done well. You can find similar user research as part of almost every single scaled consumer product.

User research is valuable enough that it has created an entire job category as part of the research and development process. To include the data from user research is normal, but it is not quite the focal point of the 132 pages as indicated. Alternative interpretation is that this is not valuable data for R&D, which is also a misunderstanding of what’s being presented.

 

[AudioManNewb]

Just got the VZR model one. Will update when I get a good amount of timing gaming or listening to music.
But I do have one problem I use a apple USB C dongle which worked flawlessly up until I plugged the VZR into it now my computer can not recognize it I have uninstalled it and tired many different ports USB 2.0 USB 3.1 and USB 3.0 all with the same results. I can get it to see the headphone but not the microphone.

 

[b0lt 0ns]

Just got the VZR model one. Will update when I get a good amount of timing gaming or listening to music.
But I do have one problem I use a apple USB C dongle which worked flawlessly up until I plugged the VZR into it now my computer can not recognize it I have uninstalled it and tired many different ports USB 2.0 USB 3.1 and USB 3.0 all with the same results. I can get it to see the headphone but not the microphone.

Mine wouldn't work at first either on pc I don't remember what caused it. The mic is terrible anyways

Edit: Are you using the apple dongle on the pc? You should be plugging the splitter cable into its respective audio ports on the motherboard. Don't connect to front panel ports.

 

[AudioManNewb]

Yes I am using the Apple USB C dongle on PC. I unconnected the previous headset ATH-GL3 and connected this one. And nothing but problems something must be wrong with either Windows 11 or my hardware itself.

 

[b0lt 0ns]

Yes I am using the Apple USB C dongle on PC. I unconnected the previous headset ATH-GL3 and connected this one. And nothing but problems something must be wrong with either Windows 11 or my hardware itself.

You shouldn't be using the dongle on a PC anyways. Do you have the microphone connected to the correct port?

 

[561915]

Yes I am using the Apple USB C dongle on PC. I unconnected the previous headset ATH-GL3 and connected this one. And nothing but problems something must be wrong with either Windows 11 or my hardware itself.

Use the included splitter and plug the headphone wire into the dongle, it should work that way. The reason it doesn't work with the combined plug is because its a slightly different size than normal for some reason. Otherwise just plug it into the motherboard ports with the splitter.

 

[AudioManNewb]

You shouldn't be using the dongle on a PC anyways. Do you have the microphone connected to the correct port?

Why should I not use a dongle when it is better in every aspect to my onboard audio? Also it has worked flawlessly up until I plugged the VZR into it.

 

[b0lt 0ns]

Why should I not use a dongle when it is better in every aspect to my onboard audio? Also it has worked flawlessly up until I plugged the VZR into it.

fair enough. i just tested my apple dongle and the mic is working without the splitter and with the splitter going to the mic port on the motherboard. i actually didnt need to configure anything it just worked. maybe your dongle is broken?