[kiteki]

Yes, except the CK10 used metal (Titanium I think) inside the nozzle instead of plastic.  I haven't heard the R01 nor R50.
 
Hopefully the GR08 is a hybrid of the GR07 driver for the lows and the TWFK for the highs, then it could have excellent bass and clarity.
 
 
You could probably send a GR07 and TWFK to Thousand Sound (see the TS842) to make that, if you don't want to wait for Vsonic until 2014. =]

 

[Inks]

It's a plastic nozzle with a metal Knowles damper, that's it, the R50 also uses a metal damper. 

 

[scootsit]

Quote:

Yes, except the CK10 used metal (Titanium I think) inside the nozzle instead of plastic.  I haven't heard the R01 nor R50.
 
Hopefully the GR08 is a hybrid of the GR07 driver for the lows and the TWFK for the highs, then it could have excellent bass and clarity.
 
 
You could probably send a GR07 and TWFK to Thousand Sound (see the TS842) to make that, if you don't want to wait for Vsonic until 2014. =]

Cosmic Ears has a new $300 custom hybrid. Out of stock at the moment (cable sourcing issues), but not for too long... there's a head-fi thread bout cosmic ears.

 

[adrenalight]

For me, the R01 is the best sounding TWFK-based atm, no doubt. The next R08 can surely take the dynamic driver of the r07 and the twfk of the r01, but i'm looking forward to a somewhat more treble-emphasis tune. The r01 is not bright enough.

 

[kiteki]

It's a plastic nozzle with a metal Knowles damper, that's it, the R50 also uses a metal damper. 

 
Sure, so it's a blue colour Knowles damper you think?
 

 
 
 
In the CK10 the sound exits directly from the filter, which is most likely encapsulated in Titanium along the nozzle length.
 
In the DBA-02 (and the R-50?  I can't find a pic) there is a very long plastic nozzle which will cause some diffraction a bit like this.
 

 

[Inks]

Diffaction in what? What's the source of that pic?
 
Either way, the result in practice will be what matters, metal or no metal, the resulting FR, THD, transients, etc. are of most importance. TWFKs tend to sound better at the reference plane, that is why long, thin nozzles are used. The CK10's tuning may make it more compliant to shallow insertion, but that wasn't necessarily the case IME, but it's been a while since I heard the CK10. 

 

[kiteki]

Diffaction in what? What's the source of that pic?
 
Either way, the result in practice will be what matters, metal or no metal, the resulting FR, THD, transients, etc. are of most importance. TWFKs tend to sound better at the reference plane, that is why long, thin nozzles are used. The CK10's tuning may make it more compliant to shallow insertion, but that wasn't necessarily the case IME, but it's been a while since I heard the CK10. 

 
It's just a random picture of diffraction.  What I mean is sound doesn't 'like' to travel down echoey plastic tunnels, I think the CK10 might use Titanium but I don't have a picture or blueprint of the nozzle.
 
The FR, THD and IR are only important if you're looking for an IEM with flat FR, low THD and fast IR decay........ I'm not sure if that's all we're actually looking for in an IEM.
 
Even if two IEM's have identical THD levels, or one is higher, or similar impulse response, perhaps they just have different time envelopes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSR_envelope#ADSR_envelope, overtones or harmonics, which in turn result in a different and unique tone in each one..... after all there is no perfect IEM in THD, IMD or IR.
 
Analyzing that resulting unique tone with hardware or software is impossible.  If you want to test the colour accuracy of a PC monitor, you can use a calibrator http://www.digitalversus.com/lcd-monitor/colour-calibration-profiles-your-monitor-a424.html and easily prove it's more accurate than human sensitivity.  Likewise, humans are much more sensitive to tonal difference than any computer software or hardware, which are fairly useless at identifying an instrument or voice, let alone differences within the instrument or voice, or if 10 are playing at once, and naturally they can't tell you the quality of how it sounds.
 
Humans are sensitive to 0.0001% tonal difference since we need to use it all the time, such as hearing fear or 100 other emotions in someones voice... birds... deer... steel... paper... instruments... music!...........
 
If IEM's all had perfect IR, perfect square waves and 0.00001% THD, IMD... well then they'd all sound nice and transparent, open windows to the recording without any tone of their own (apart from the soundspace size and related 3D perceptions), in reality they all sound slightly 'different' and we can't really anlyze 'how' they sound different.
 

---

 
Here is an example, lots of THD and choppy square waves - http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/hifiman-re-262-and-re-272-ear-headphones-measurements, neither graph relates to human perception, and neither graph can tell me the differences between the RE262 and RE272.
 
Which makes perfect sense, since graphs like that can't really tell me the difference between a clarinet and flute either, only show me a nonsensical difference.

 

[goodvibes]

Diffraction happens at wavelengths not attained in a tube of a diameter only a fraction of the 1/2 wave of the highest frequency being produced. Wavelength of 18Khz is 0.75". It's more like cyclically pressuring the tube than sending frequencies down it. Long narrow tubes can offer some acoustic resistance on their own. Even if not narrowed for resistance the additional air mass of a longer tube should offer some damping as well.
 
It's why materials shouldn't be critical here. The only instance that material should matter is if it's flexing or resonating from pressure or vibrational energy at frequencies withing the audio band. Actually pretty rare in IEMs due to their modest dimensions. Metal tubes etc may help due to an ability to shape or just overall consistency but the material itself shouldn't matter if stiff enough.
 
 That said, I don't think you can measure nearly as much as you can hear and think measurements are tools and not proofs unless something is terribly wrong. Basically, nobody likes me.

 

[kiteki]

The only instance that material should matter is if it's flexing or resonating from pressure or vibrational energy at frequencies withing the audio band. Actually pretty rare in IEMs due to their modest dimensions. Metal tubes etc may help due to an ability to shape or just overall consistency but the material itself shouldn't matter if stiff enough.

 
Well an IEM is a microverse of sound like speakers in a room, of course they won't sound like the resonance of playing speakers in a ceramic tiled bathroom or aluminium room but I think there are still some resonant differences at play.
 
I didn't know 18kHz is 0.75", so how do you explain 50Hz sub-bass at 10mm from the eardrum?

 

[shotgunshane]

When the gr08 is actually released, we need a new thread. This one is a complete waste of space, with exception of the few updates that have been provided, which are greatly appreciated.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

 
Well an IEM is a microverse of sound like speakers in a room, of course they won't sound like the resonance of playing speakers in a ceramic tiled bathroom or aluminium room but I think there are still some resonant differences at play.
 
I didn't know 18kHz is 0.75", so how do you explain 50Hz sub-bass at 10mm from the eardrum?

Alternating pressure moves it back and forth. Nothing to explain. Ever wonder why the bass goes away when you lose a seal? Pressure is lost. There are still some standing waves or reinforcements at play but diffraction, not so much. It should be pistonic in nature. Customs would sound like crap with their long hard sound tubes if stuff was bouncing all around on it's way out.
 
 A microverse needs microwaves to behave in the same way as a room.

 

[putente]

Quote:

When the gr08 is actually released, we need a new thread. This one is a complete waste of space, with exception of the few updates that have been provided, which are greatly appreciated.

 
 
And I'm affraid you're right! This should be a thread dedicated to the GR08, but some want to turn it into something else... 

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

 
 
And I'm affraid you're right! This should be a thread dedicated to the GR08, but some want to turn it into something else... 

LOL, got anything new specifically on the GR08? It will get back on track as info arrives and the pseudo science fades. Until then folks interested in the GR08 have already stopped reading this thread because there's nothing to read other than a discussion of some of it's component parts etc.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

When the gr08 is actually released, we need a new thread. This one is a complete waste of space, with exception of the few updates that have been provided, which are greatly appreciated.

Don't worry, we'll have about 5 new ones when they show.

 

[kiteki]

 
I didn't know 18kHz is 0.75", so how do you explain 50Hz sub-bass at 10mm from the eardrum?

Alternating pressure moves it back and forth. Nothing to explain. Ever wonder why the bass goes away when you lose a seal? Pressure is lost.

 
Okay, how about 15kHz waves then at 10mm distance?
 
 

Originally Posted by goodvibes /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Customs would sound like crap with their long hard sound tubes if stuff was bouncing all around on it's way out.

 
The Starkey HF-2 uses TWFK drivers all the way back, which may give a more spacious presentation, however I think I'd personally prefer the TWFK driver inside the nozzle like in the K3003 and upcoming Vsonic GR08.
 
I never really liked the full-size headphone-type sound of the Sony EX series, there are headphones for that, after all............. I prefer up close and personal IEM sound.
 
How a resonance sounds like depends on the material, a bathroom has a ton of resonance but people still like to sing in them, so they sound pretty good even if they are not pure.