Violectric V222 and V202

[oldson]

If you still have V200, keep it !!

do you mean instead of upgrading to the V222 or aswell as?

 

[Promee]

I love it when people think they know more than the designers of the product...

I definitely don't think I know more than the designers of the product. They are constrained by cost, ready availability of parts, trying to hit a price target, having to compete with other products purely on the basis of measurements, etc. There is room for improvement with many things, and like every product they have to make compromises in their designs to actually get a product to market - I'm sure that's an incredibly difficult set of decisions. There is a reason why a business like Sparkos Labs is successful, and it is because in many cases people will prefer to replace certain parts with upgraded ones that might have otherwise been too expensive or unwieldy to include in the original product. ZMF and Mod House both got started with people tweaking and modifying existing products. I also appreciate manufacturers' involvement in the community and willingness to engage. Like many enthusiasts, I get a lot of enjoyment from tinkering, tweaking, and trying to push the boundaries with products. I can totally understand if people don't like doing that kind of thing, and I certainly don't have anywhere near the expertise of the people who designed this device. I'm just curious with stuff like this, and I think it's fun to play with these devices and see what makes them tick and to see if I can make them better suit my preferences.

@Promee .... you might consider changing your avatar ....

I really don't think that's necessary. I've used this pic on a number of different sites for several years, and it hasn't been an issue. It's a picture of a greeting card I got from a regular pharmacy just sitting out on the shelf, so I don't think it's too offensive. It's definitely not my intention to upset anyone with the pic, I just laughed really hard when I saw it and thought it would make for a *cheeky* avatar.

I think maybe I've entered a different world in this thread. Normally I'm in tube amp land, where we are always swapping out operational amplifiers (tubes), soldering in new capacitors, resistors, etc., and we all have cartoon butts for faces.

 

[LongSong]

I get a lot of enjoyment from tinkering, tweaking

You and many others, and you've really hit on the crux of it here. Many people (myself included) just love to tinker and try things. It's your amp, your choice. My opinion is you be you and go right on tinkering. It seems you have your eyes wide open to the risks and I think you are in the right place posting your results and questions here (unless there's a vio op amp rolling thread somewhere). Also awesome to see the product designer come in here with a response. I can understand Vio's point of view here and Freid's response makes full sense BUT the force is strong with tinkerers . If you roll back about a month in this thread someone posted rolling in burson op amps and wasn't having the problems you are so I think by the looks of your posts and Freid's input that the sparkos op amps you have are a no go in this amp.

 

[LongSong]

Best regards, Fried Reim

Great to see you in here Fried. I thought while here I'd take the opportunity to give you some feedback on my newly acquired V222. I picked up a V200 second hand a while back and really liked it so have gone for the V222 and am loving it so thank you for a wonderful amp! I only expected a marginal sonic improvement going from SE on the 200 to balanced on the 222 but was pleasantly surprised at a larger jump than I expected so it's smiles all round at my place. Now if the 222 had pre out's it would go from an excellent amp to my perfect solid state desktop amp. I looked at the 340 range thinking I could step up a level and get that perfect amp but the lack of XLR inputs is a deal breaker as I (and I'm sure many others) use the RCA outputs of my DAC to go to a tube amp and the XLR's to go to solid state. So in your next round of models (whenever that may be) I really encourage you to add pre out's to the 200 range or XLR in's to the 300 range. But once again, thank you for the wonderful 222, I'm a very happy Violectric customer

 

[Promee]

Just wanted to do one last follow-up on my op amp rolling saga. I got some additional advice that I should leave the volume pot position alone completely, as it is very unlikely to positively alter sound and more likely than average to cause a problem, so back to stock for that one. Also putting the RCA / jumper side op amp back to stock. If that one is connected to the SE inputs, that will be of no consequence to me anyway, as I am only using balanced DACs at the moment, and if it is somehow linked with the pre-gain jumpers, more likely to cause problems than improvement. That leaves only the XLR position, and in that one I’m going to leave the Sparkos. As long as I don’t very rapidly turn back on after powering down, I’m not getting any triggering of the protection circuit. The lesson here seems to be that more is not always better.

Having the one Sparkos SS3602 in that position makes an undeniable change to the sound for the better for me. With the Focal Clear, this raises the slam factor on things like bass drums to another level. Otherwise, I think it sounds pretty similar, but I think the amp was already good and neutral, but it didn’t exactly wow me for the $ (I don’t yet have any super tough to drive headphones, so that might also alter the value proposition). With the Sparkos, I’m quite happy with it, and I think it is going to be a well-loved piece of my collection. If this modification does slowly increase wear and tear on the amp, I know I’ll have to pay to get it fixed or replace it, but I genuinely don’t know how much I would listen to it without that change.

So that’s going to be the compromise - 1 Sparkos instead of 3. I’m fully aware that this might be some vicious combination of wishful thinking, confirmation bias, rationalization, etc., but honestly I think it sounds better with just the one Sparkos than with all of them. Maybe having all 3 was just pulling too much current, maybe it was causing some other kind of mismatch that is way over my head, but the one alone seems to increase the slam to a pretty staggering degree. I can understand the position that it might not be good to modify these products for a variety of reasons, and I can understand if the change in sound signature might not be appealing to some people, but I just can not believe that someone with any level of love for audio gear could listen to this amp in stock form side by side with one with the Sparkos at the XLR input and not hear a difference. It may not be safe in the long term, it may not make sense electrically, and it may make the amp measure worse, but it sounds fantastic to me.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I’m fully aware that this might be some vicious combination of wishful thinking, confirmation bias, rationalization, etc.

That combination is my life!

 

[LongSong]

So that’s going to be the compromise - 1 Sparkos

Let me fix this part for you: So that’s going to be the compromise - 1 Sparkos for now

My crystal ball tells me you are going to try other op amps in the future

Also it would be great if you could post a pic of which op amp on the board is what in reference to the rca/xlr and volume op amps so those who come after you know which slot should affect what parts.

 

[Promee]

Let me fix this part for you: So that’s going to be the compromise - 1 Sparkos for now

LOL! You are a mind reader for sure! I definitely want to do some more reading and comparison on power draw before I just pick one based on YouTube, but as was pointed out above, it sounds like Burson has some that behave in this amp, so might be fun to play with those. I have some new tubes to play with first, but I will be back onto op amps before you know it I’m sure

In the photo - The one circled in red is the one I’ve decided to keep in and the one I believe to be associated with the XLR input. The one circled in blue I switched back to stock - I‘m not sure if it is for the SE / RCA input or if it is for the DIP switches in the red housing for the “pre-gain” setting. The one in green is the one I was told absolutely to avoid replacing (after having attempted it, unfortunately, but hey, we live and learn) and I am not sure what it is for, but I was just referring to it based on its proximity to the volume pot.

Also, if it is helpful for anyone - the ones circled in blue and red are Texas Instruments NE5532P and the one in green is a Texas Instruments LM4562NA. EDIT - these are not the ones in the picture, the pictured ones are all Sparkos, but those are the default op amps for those positions.

 

[LongSong]

LOL! You are a mind reader for sure! I definitely want to do some more reading and comparison on power draw before I just pick one based on YouTube, but as was pointed out above, it sounds like Burson has some that behave in this amp, so might be fun to play with those. I have some new tubes to play with first, but I will be back onto op amps before you know it I’m sure

In the photo - The one circled in red is the one I’ve decided to keep in and the one I believe to be associated with the XLR input. The one circled in blue I switched back to stock - I‘m not sure if it is for the SE / RCA input or if it is for the DIP switches in the red housing for the “pre-gain” setting. The one in green is the one I was told absolutely to avoid replacing (after having attempted it, unfortunately, but hey, we live and learn) and I am not sure what it is for, but I was just referring to it based on its proximity to the volume pot.

Also, if it is helpful for anyone - the ones circled in blue and red are Texas Instruments NE5532P and the one in green is a Texas Instruments LM4562NA.

Nice work, thanks for the pic and info !

 

[Fegefeuer]

Great to see you in here Fried. I thought while here I'd take the opportunity to give you some feedback on my newly acquired V222. I picked up a V200 second hand a while back and really liked it so have gone for the V222 and am loving it so thank you for a wonderful amp! I only expected a marginal sonic improvement going from SE on the 200 to balanced on the 222 but was pleasantly surprised at a larger jump than I expected so it's smiles all round at my place. Now if the 222 had pre out's it would go from an excellent amp to my perfect solid state desktop amp. I looked at the 340 range thinking I could step up a level and get that perfect amp but the lack of XLR inputs is a deal breaker as I (and I'm sure many others) use the RCA outputs of my DAC to go to a tube amp and the XLR's to go to solid state. So in your next round of models (whenever that may be) I really encourage you to add pre out's to the 200 range or XLR in's to the 300 range. But once again, thank you for the wonderful 222, I'm a very happy Violectric customer

Good things come to those who wait. Enjoy the V222 for now and a good while.

 

[Xruss]

LOL! You are a mind reader for sure! I definitely want to do some more reading and comparison on power draw before I just pick one based on YouTube, but as was pointed out above, it sounds like Burson has some that behave in this amp, so might be fun to play with those. I have some new tubes to play with first, but I will be back onto op amps before you know it I’m sure

In the photo - The one circled in red is the one I’ve decided to keep in and the one I believe to be associated with the XLR input. The one circled in blue I switched back to stock - I‘m not sure if it is for the SE / RCA input or if it is for the DIP switches in the red housing for the “pre-gain” setting. The one in green is the one I was told absolutely to avoid replacing (after having attempted it, unfortunately, but hey, we live and learn) and I am not sure what it is for, but I was just referring to it based on its proximity to the volume pot.

Also, if it is helpful for anyone - the ones circled in blue and red are Texas Instruments NE5532P and the one in green is a Texas Instruments LM4562NA. EDIT - these are not the ones in the picture, the pictured ones are all Sparkos, but those are the default op amps for those positions.

Good afternoon!!!
I don't have this amplifier or its schematic, which would definitely give you advice on sides and troubleshooting. I can only speculate and give advice based on my knowledge and skills in repairing radio electronic devices.
In this case, there is the possibility of enabling protection from a weak voltage regulator. When installing Sparkos in place of standard operational amplifiers at the expense of greater amplification (I can not pick up the expression meaning the passage of more voltage and current), which leads to an increase in the voltage and current consumption on the transistors of the terminal stages. Which causes an overload on the voltage regulator, power supply, lowering the voltage and providing protection. When the amplifier is switched on again, the undischarged capacitors allow smoothing out the voltage drop on the voltage regulator, which allows the amplifier to be switched on in normal mode.
Recommendations: Consult an electronics technician, check the voltage drop across the voltage regulator, and if it drops, set a higher voltage or boost the voltage regulator (replace).

 

[JerseyD]

LOL! You are a mind reader for sure! I definitely want to do some more reading and comparison on power draw before I just pick one based on YouTube, but as was pointed out above, it sounds like Burson has some that behave in this amp, so might be fun to play with those. I have some new tubes to play with first, but I will be back onto op amps before you know it I’m sure

In the photo - The one circled in red is the one I’ve decided to keep in and the one I believe to be associated with the XLR input. The one circled in blue I switched back to stock - I‘m not sure if it is for the SE / RCA input or if it is for the DIP switches in the red housing for the “pre-gain” setting. The one in green is the one I was told absolutely to avoid replacing (after having attempted it, unfortunately, but hey, we live and learn) and I am not sure what it is for, but I was just referring to it based on its proximity to the volume pot.

Also, if it is helpful for anyone - the ones circled in blue and red are Texas Instruments NE5532P and the one in green is a Texas Instruments LM4562NA. EDIT - these are not the ones in the picture, the pictured ones are all Sparkos, but those are the default op amps for those positions.

I'm no expert in these matters, but in my Geshelli J2S DAC, to roll op-amps for the XLR requires TWO op-amps (while for the single-ended, only one is needed). Is the V222 not a truly balanced design, and that is why you only need one op-amp for the XLR?

 

[Promee]

I'm no expert in these matters, but in my Geshelli J2S DAC, to roll op-amps for the XLR requires TWO op-amps (while for the single-ended, only one is needed). Is the V222 not a truly balanced design, and that is why you only need one op-amp for the XLR?

That is an excellent question, and to be honest I don’t know the answer. It may be that I am mistaken and only swapping one channel of the system, but I think it is possible for a dual op amp like this to handle XLR input on its own depending on how the overall circuit is set up. With the DAC, it might be doing more work to amplify the signal for output, so maybe 2 are needed for optimal quality. In the engineering data for the SS3602, it looks like it can function very differently depending on the design of the device around it. I am also definitely not an expert on these issues, so I would be curious if anyone else has a thought on this as well.

 

[Strale]

Great to see you in here Fried. I thought while here I'd take the opportunity to give you some feedback on my newly acquired V222. I picked up a V200 second hand a while back and really liked it so have gone for the V222 and am loving it so thank you for a wonderful amp! I only expected a marginal sonic improvement going from SE on the 200 to balanced on the 222 but was pleasantly surprised at a larger jump than I expected so it's smiles all round at my place. Now if the 222 had pre out's it would go from an excellent amp to my perfect solid state desktop amp. I looked at the 340 range thinking I could step up a level and get that perfect amp but the lack of XLR inputs is a deal breaker as I (and I'm sure many others) use the RCA outputs of my DAC to go to a tube amp and the XLR's to go to solid state. So in your next round of models (whenever that may be) I really encourage you to add pre out's to the 200 range or XLR in's to the 300 range. But once again, thank you for the wonderful 222, I'm a very happy Violectric customer

That makes you one of the (rare) owners of both old (V200) and new (V222) Violectric amps.
Could you shed some more light what exact improvement did you notice going from V200 (SE) to balanced V222?
Also comparison between V200 (SE) and V222 SE would be even more interesting.

 

[TheRealDz]

As I hinted in an earlier post, I rolled opamps in my V222. I understand that Violectric does not recommend this, but here are my findings.

Burson was kind enough to send me a free pair of their Vivid V6 opamps in exchange for an unbiased review. Now that I’ve put maybe 500 hundred hours on the V6s, I feel I can provide a full review.

The stock opamps were super simple to replace. You just remove the top 4 screws from the front and back of the V222. There’s a lot of real estate around the sockets, so it was easy to pull out the stock opamps and replace them with the V6s. Note that you need to use a chip puller to do this though (~$2).

However, there is one more socketed opamp, which looks like some sort of buffer after the volume pot. I intend to replace that with another V6, and will report back on what I hear. In the meantime though, I replaced it with a highly-regarded Muses 1, but it immediately sounded too thick and warm. The stock opamp had much greater transparency, so it went back in. I didn’t have any other issues with the combination of stock buffer opamp plus the two Vivid V6s.

First, some background on the V222; contrary to some folks here, I don’t find my V222 to be especially warm. I hear a neutral overall sound, driving bass, mellow treble, and just a touch of warmth. But I also hear a lot of midrange resolution – which I think is what folks are hearing as warmth.

I was initially concerned about changing the tonal balance of the V222; I liked it just the way it was. But it was apparent within a few minutes of listening that this worry was…nothing to worry about. Ie, I didn’t hear a change in tonality. But what I did hear was a dramatic increase in resolution across the entire frequency spectrum. Bass didn’t increase, but was more textured. Treble lost some grain that I didn’t realize was there with the stock opamps – making it simultaneously smoother, yet more detailed. But it is the midrange that really stood out; greater resolution meant greater musical detail. The midrange detail plus the grain-free treble allowed me to listen louder and peer more deeply into the music.

In terms of technicalities, the sense of stereo imaging was enhanced – I think due to a blacker background. This made individual instruments and sounds much easier to track. Soundstaging was dramatically improved as well. I don’t think the soundstage became larger, but it became more three dimensional, with greater depth and gobs of layering.

For example, Madonna’s recordings are always first rate. On Vogue, the V6s brought out even more atmosphere than I have ever heard in the song – projecting a grand, deep, holographic soundstage. On Crazy for You, Madonna’s voice is presented within a huge soundstage – starkly silky and resonant, yet surrounded by the decay of subtle echos. On The Verve’s History, the violins at the beginning of the track show off the midrange resolution and grain-free treble, before Richard Ashcroft’s voice starts in as clearly as I have ever heard.

All of this resolution meant that I could hear musical details more clearly than ever before. I could hear the presumably mistaken lone doubled-up beat at :20 into Bruce Springsteen’s I’m on Fire, and the pair of taps at the beginning of Bob Seger’s Turn the Page. It was truly mesmerizing to hear that deeply into songs I have heard throughout my life.

So is it worth it to add the V6s to the V222? Absolutely. The V222 is already a fantastic amp, but the V6s took this already fantastic amp and brought up its performance to a level I simply did not expect. Now I am looking forward to hearing what substituting one more V6 for that last stock opamp will do…