[sahmen]

2. Re balanced vs RCA/S.E. outputs, I would love to be able to run these outputs simultaneously: with balanced output pair directly connecting to my balanced-input powered monitors; and SE/RCA outputs going to the SVS SB1000 sub. However, the Violectric manual advises against this, saying sound may be degraded as a result.

Have any of you used the balanced + SE outputs simultaneously? If yes, could you hear any degradation from doing so?[/QUOTE]

I have done this, but only when the V281 is operating in Pre fader/fixed mode. Because I want the sound from the Yggy (DAC) to remain in the balanced/analogue domain through the V281 and the XmC-1 processor without any processing (such as bass management) being done by the XMC-1 upstream, I assign the XMC-1 to the all analogue Reference Stereo setting, and allow the RCA output from the V281 to forward the same unaltered INPUT signal (prior to level control) in full range mode to the subs (which do the bass management)...

True, I have read the part of the manual which warns about the possible slight degradation of the sound when both balanced and unbalanced line outputs are engaged at the same time. However, I have also assumed (rightly or wrongly) that since the v281 is hardly doing any processing to alter the sound when operating in that Pre fader/fixed mode, and all the heavy lifting is being done upstream by the Pre pro and the powered subs (bass management) and downstream by the DAC, there is little to no risk of the forwarded signal from the V281 being compromised. I have not tested this hypothesis in any rigorous way by AB'ing the results in SQ, but from what little testing I have done, I know that I definitely prefer the sound of the system with the V281 hooked to the subs.

Today, I removed the V281 from the chain so that the Yggy can feed the pre pro directly, and noticed no marked improvement in the sound, except for the fact that I was missing the low end that the V281's connection to the sub makes possible. Next I am going to compare the sound with and without the sub connected to the SE/RCA output of the V281 in "pre fader/fixed" mode and find out if I can hear any difference beyond the missing low end sounds contributed by the subs.

Of course, I am sure I am going to prefer the sound with the sub engaged via the SE/RCA outputs, but I wish I could be more rigorous in my testing methods than that... For example, I am making all the performance evaluations by ear, but it could be that the "possible degradation" they're referring to is the kind that is easier to see through measurements and graphs, rather than actually hearing. That is always possible. I shall also send an email inquiry about this to Violectric/Lake people in order to find out what they say.

 

[zek4u]

Well, this looks like you have overloaded inputs on your Belles at the higher levels.
Do you know which maximum level it can accept without distortion?
Which level do you have at the inputs of the V281/from your DAC?

I had the same issue, but with V281. The manual tells what the maximum input level for V281 is 21 dBu.
I was thinking this corresponds to RCA inputs only. But actually, the maximum input level for V281 is 21 dBu for both XLR and RCA!
My DAC was set to 24 dBu and I always turned the volume down slightly because I heard "less resolution, sounds a bit muddled..."
This difference occurred with the "loud" recordings mastered close to 0 dBFS (Celldweller, for example).
I was thinking this is probably something like "Benchmark"-feature, and I need this 3.5 dB headroom.
But actually the problem was in another area, this was just overloaded inputs of V281, lol.
I measured the outputs and found what I have distortion when I feed input signal at ~23 dBu or higher.
So, I just lowered the output level in my DAC and the problem has gone.

Don't think my inputs are distorting. Synergy just isn't there with my Belles Integrated/Gallo speakers when using the V281 as a preamp, "Variable-Out or Post-Fader" mode. The same goes with my Harbeth P3ESRs. Seems to be less manipulation going on when using the V281 in "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader" mode as it sounds very close to running my DAC straight into integrated. I also tried running the V281 off the tape/monitor out from the Belles. V281 takes hit in quality when the dac isn't plugged straight in. Seems to me there is less manipulation using the V281's pre-fader which is another feather in the cap for Violectric.

My 2Qute's outputs are quite high. Might be 3V and can't be adjusted. The thing is, nothing sounds overloaded using heapdhones or speakers. I just think the Violectric's active preamp is tuned to be fairly lively which makes the V281 work so well with the HD800S headphones. That's just my opinion.

 

[ostewart]

I've just been writing up my review, it's really hard to sum up as it just does what it says on the box and works, crystal clear yet also a tiny bit smooth with very natural and effortless sound.

 

[zhgutov]

Don't think my inputs are distorting. Synergy just isn't there with my Belles Integrated/Gallo speakers when using the V281 as a preamp, "Variable-Out or Post-Fader" mode. The same goes with my Harbeth P3ESRs. Seems to be less manipulation going on when using the V281 in "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader" mode as it sounds very close to running my DAC straight into integrated. I also tried running the V281 off the tape/monitor out from the Belles. V281 takes hit in quality when the dac isn't plugged straight in. Seems to me there is less manipulation using the V281's pre-fader which is another feather in the cap for Violectric.

My 2Qute's outputs are quite high. Might be 3V and can't be adjusted. The thing is, nothing sounds overloaded using heapdhones or speakers. I just think the Violectric's active preamp is tuned to be fairly lively which makes the V281 work so well with the HD800S headphones. That's just my opinion.

3 V RMS is okay for V281, it is somewhere near 12 dBu.
It is hard to say for sure about your preamp, this was just my guess, but in my case this was not sound like distortion too.
Maybe it is not the distortion in your case. But I'd check that to know for sure.

 

[FumblingFoo]

I've just been writing up my review, it's really hard to sum up as it just does what it says on the box and works, crystal clear yet also a tiny bit smooth with very natural and effortless sound.

Awesome, I look forward to your impressions ! I've been slowly working on reviews for my equipment (including the v281), but my progress is limited because the v281 is the only TOTL amp I have experience with :/.

 

[sahmen]

2. Re balanced vs RCA/S.E. outputs, I would love to be able to run these outputs simultaneously: with balanced output pair directly connecting to my balanced-input powered monitors; and SE/RCA outputs going to the SVS SB1000 sub. However, the Violectric manual advises against this, saying sound may be degraded as a result.

Have any of you used the balanced + SE outputs simultaneously? If yes, could you hear any degradation from doing so?

I have done this, but only when the V281 is operating in Pre fader/fixed mode. Because I want the sound from the Yggy (DAC) to remain in the balanced/analogue domain through the V281 and the XmC-1 processor without any processing (such as bass management) being done by the XMC-1 upstream, I assign the XMC-1 to the all analogue Reference Stereo setting, and allow the RCA output from the V281 to forward the same unaltered INPUT signal (prior to level control) in full range mode to the subs (which do the bass management)...

True, I have read the part of the manual which warns about the possible slight degradation of the sound when both balanced and unbalanced line outputs are engaged at the same time. However, I have also assumed (rightly or wrongly) that since the v281 is hardly doing any processing to alter the sound when operating in that Pre fader/fixed mode, and all the heavy lifting is being done upstream by the Pre pro and the powered subs (bass management) and downstream by the DAC, there is little to no risk of the forwarded signal from the V281 being compromised. I have not tested this hypothesis in any rigorous way by AB'ing the results in SQ, but from what little testing I have done, I know that I definitely prefer the sound of the system with the V281 hooked to the subs.

Today, I removed the V281 from the chain so that the Yggy can feed the pre pro directly, and noticed no marked improvement in the sound, except for the fact that I was missing the low end that the V281's connection to the sub makes possible. Next I am going to compare the sound with and without the sub connected to the SE/RCA output of the V281 in "pre fader/fixed" mode and find out if I can hear any difference beyond the missing low end sounds contributed by the subs.

Of course, I am sure I am going to prefer the sound with the sub engaged via the SE/RCA outputs, but I wish I could be more rigorous in my testing methods than that... For example, I am making all the performance evaluations by ear, but it could be that the "possible degradation" they're referring to is the kind that is easier to see through measurements and graphs, rather than actually hearing. That is always possible. I shall also send an email inquiry about this to Violectric/Lake people in order to find out what they say.

Here's a first response from Violectric USA to this query... He doesn't think the deterioration always occurs, but he needs to crosscheck my case with Fried and get back to me:

*************
"...I'm not sure I'll have to ask Fried who designed it.

Keep in mind he said "slight sound deterioration might occur depending on the following devices connected". He is saying 'might' with 'some' devices. If there is miss match in the combined load there could possibly be small degradation in sound quality.

A lot of very picky audiophiles use the V281 in the same fashion with speakers and subwoofers simultaneously utilizing both your RCA and XLR outputs at the same time. No one has ever noticed any degradation in sound quality. I really wouldn't be overly concerned about this.

I'll let you know what Fried says.
*******************

I shall post the follow-up response from Fried, if/when I receive it.

 

[Pharmaboy]

zhgutov, don't know why I didn't think of doing that versus re-wiring my system to use the AV pass through. When I switch to post-fader and pushed the volume control all the way up, I immediately hear a loss in quality. Less resolution, sounds a bit muddled and hear less nuance though my Belles/Gallos. Note, I just have the standard Alps pot on my V281.

sahmen, I did make a mistake. Sold my V280 and you reconfigure the RCA inputs to be RCA outputs. That must have been what confused me. Good to know you can use the balanced outputs in a pre-fader situation. I used the V281 in a balanced post-fader situation with a Proceed AMP2 and Magnepan MMGs. Sounded great actually.

Pharmaboy, would love to do some balanced/unbalnced comparisons but need a decent balanced DAC. Maybe one day the Chord TTs will drop even more. I'm just addicted to the Chord sound. Did just get a Sony NW-WM1A DAP. I'm tempted to order a Black Dragon TRRS 4.4 balanced to two 3-pin XLR adapter. Run that into the V281 to compare. Humm.

I should clarify several points (there's so much to talk about w/this hyper-flexible amp!):

1. Both of my DACs (Audio GD NOS 19 & DAC-19) have single-ended outputs only--each has 2 pairs of RCA outs. This is super convenient, allowing me to have 2 HP amps up and running at all times; but it means I have not yet heard the V281 driven by balanced cables.
2. Re line level outputs of the V281, I typically use the RCA outs, when then go to my SVS SB-1000 sub, the high pass crossover of which goes to an unbalanced-to-balanced converter (which actually sounds good), then on the ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7 powered monitors, which take only balanced inputs.
3. Once I wired the balanced outputs of the V281 direct to these monitors (w/no signal going to or through the sub). I got the best sound I've ever heard from the HS7s. If nothing else, this proves that in addition to all its other strengths, the V281 is a terrific single-ended-to-balanced converter.
4. And re the headphone outputs, I typically listen only the balanced outputs, which IMO sound somewhat better than the single-ended output in all the predictable ways (ie, more power; somewhat more soundstaging/space around notes; etc). But I've listened a lot through the SE outputs w/my non-balanced headphones, and it just sounds great...

And as discussed weeks ago in this thread, the extensive gain adjustments on the V281 allowed me to very precisely "tune" the output to suit my system. Without that granular, step-wise gain adjustment capability, this amp/preamp would overdrive my desktop system and all headphones except the planar (ZMF Ori) to an alarming degree.

 

[zek4u]

Now I regret spending the money for the budget Sprout/vintage TT system the girlfriend and others can use. Should have just take that money, sold the 2Qute, gotten a Hugo TT and a good balanced cable. I'm so darn OCD about this stuff. I want to run balanced from the TT to my V281 and unbalanced to my Belles Aria. It just seems like the smallest amount of the magic disappeared even going fixed-out. Urghhhh. It's probably just something I'm imagining.

My old neighbor had some old Yamaha monitors running off some soundboard and a crappy subwoofer. I would come downstairs from listening to my expensive Naim SN2/Harbeth 30.1 system and be amazed how enjoyable it was. Kind of pissed me off. Lol. Have always loved paper drivers. Maybe each driver has it's own crossover and amp, true active monitor. Maybe I should get a pair of ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7 or some Neimann KH 100As. Then I'm thinking how would I run the subwoofer. Do it just like you do it Pharmaboy but then how do I run my integrated amp. I need to just listen to a group of songs again and go back and forth with the DAC hooked straight to the integrated amp versus fixed-out out of the V281.

I shouldn't care as much about my near field listening but for some reason I do.

 

[Dvdlucena]

I'm so darn OCD about this stuff.

Maybe you should treat your OCD before changing anything in our chain!

 

[Pharmaboy]

Maybe you should treat your OCD before changing anything in our chain!

What you suggest is an impossibility: if @zek4u's OCD were treated, his head would explode; his audio gear would disappear into a different dimension; and the audio industry (here and in the EU) would be bankrupt in days.

(OK, maybe the exploding head part is guesswork--but the rest is solid)

Hell, if somebody made my audio OCD go away, a lot of my personality & memories would go with it (not an improvement)

PS: I care way too much about nearfield listening, too. I'm a freelance writer, in this office 8-12 hrs/day whether I have work or not. Nearfield audio is my "secret ingredient" my sanity maintenance (my wife would laugh hysterically at that). Besides, if it weren't for nearfield audio, I'd still be OCD, broke & crazy over midfield audio (high end audio (tube preamp, amps, speakers, subs, blah-blah). So in a sick way, nearfield audio saved my *ss!

 

[Dvdlucena]

What you suggest is an impossibility: if @zek4u's OCD were treated, his head would explode; his audio gear would disappear into a different dimension; and the audio industry (here and in the EU) would be bankrupt in days.

(OK, maybe the exploding head part is guesswork--but the rest is solid)

Hell, if somebody made my audio OCD go away, a lot of my personality & memories would go with it (not an improvement)

PS: I care way too much about nearfield listening, too. I'm a freelance writer, in this office 8-12 hrs/day whether I have work or not. Nearfield audio is my "secret ingredient" my sanity maintenance (my wife would laugh hysterically at that). Besides, if it weren't for nearfield audio, I'd still be OCD, broke & crazy over midfield audio (high end audio (tube preamp, amps, speakers, subs, blah-blah). So in a sick way, nearfield audio saved my *ss!

Just one word:
Clomipramine

LOL

Cheers

 

[ostewart]

Awesome, I look forward to your impressions ! I've been slowly working on reviews for my equipment (including the v281), but my progress is limited because the v281 is the only TOTL amp I have experience with :/.

Yeah same here, I don't really have anything on hand to compare it to

 

[zek4u]

To be honest Dvdlucena put me in a bad mood about this thread. A guy can't even try to be funny. Thank you Phamaboy for defending me. I might rant about things I'm trying to figure out but who knows, maybe what I'm going through could be useful for others. All I'm trying to do is make my near field listening as enjoyable as my headphone listening.

 

[CoLdAsSauLt]

Thank you all guys for chiming in!

I got an answer to my question about the Taurus' power output at 200 Ohm:

Hi Stijn:

We finished a physical test this week. Here is the test result, (it may various from machine to machine)

SE output: 0.7Watt
BAL output: 2.8Watt

When work in SE mode, the maximum output power rate is limited by maximum voltage swing range which is so the output power is 0.7Watt. When in balanced mode, the power rate is limited by maximum current deliver ability so the output power is 2.8Watt


Xuanqian Wang

Looks quite good to me on paper for the LCD-4. Now I'm waiting until the latter arrives, probably today

With regards to the volume control, are you experiencing that the Vega is doing a bad job, or is it just by principle?

I think both... I feel uncomfortable "loosing information" when all we do nowadays is add information through hi-rez or DSD stuff. But to be honest, I think I only hear some loss in dynamics, and even that may well be expectation bias. It's hardly possible to A/B test this, let alone a blind test. Volume matching is just too difficult. But Auralic states themselves that the digital attenuation is only inaudible up to a certain %... and when you're this much invested in audio and hi-tech stuff, you simply don't want any €/component underperforming - probably more a mental thing than a real world problem, buy hey...

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thank you all guys for chiming in!

I got an answer to my question about the Taurus' power output at 200 Ohm:



Looks quite good to me on paper for the LCD-4. Now I'm waiting until the latter arrives, probably today



I think both... I feel uncomfortable "loosing information" when all we do nowadays is add information through hi-rez or DSD stuff. But to be honest, I think I only hear some loss in dynamics, and even that may well be expectation bias. It's hardly possible to A/B test this, let alone a blind test. Volume matching is just too difficult. But Auralic states themselves that the digital attenuation is only inaudible up to a certain %... and when you're this much invested in audio and hi-tech stuff, you simply don't want any €/component underperforming - probably more a mental thing than a real world problem, buy hey...

This is going to sound strange, coming from someone who's having low-level/annoyance type issues w/the big stepped pot of the V281--but I'm seriously put off by digital volume controllers. I know that the more evolved/better digital volume designs don't have nearly the "lossy" potential of early designs (which literally shaved off "bits" as they went). Maybe it's just ignorance or prejudice on my part, but I don't welcome a digital pathway at the front end of my preamp. Sorry if I'm offending any engineers out there.

The thing is: it took 30+ years for me to find a DAC that really "moved the needle" for me (sonically) in the direction of the organic, relaxed, somewhat warm tonality I hear in the concert hall & in analog/vinyl--that's a multi-bit design, the Audio GD NOS 19 (also have the DAC-19, also very good IMO). While a digital volume controller is very different in form & function from a DAC, still, I'd rather not have it. Guess I fear that I'd hear it & be stuck with it. I feel pretty much the same about DSP in powered monitors.

It's not as if analogue volume pots are perfect. Clearly, they are not. But I'll take a competent, well-designed & built analogue pot any day.