Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced (September 2023 Update: Limited Reissue Edition up for preorder!)
Jul 29, 2018 at 6:05 AM Post #3,781 of 5,991
Is this a very good amp for the HD800 S?
Better choice then Sennheisers own HDV 820?

I would use a SE hugo 2 as dac with unbalanced rca. Would i still get a fully balanced output from the 4 pin xlr then? At least the full output power?

How about bass peformence, Strong and impactful and not lacking?

Mids: good and articulate voices?

And treble not to bright and harsh but still sparkley?

800S and V281 owner here. They're very good together. Bass is very punchy and extends well.

I demoed the HDV820 with an HD800S back when I was in Japan last month and found that the combo's alright. Not really worth the price IMO.
 
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Jul 29, 2018 at 7:48 AM Post #3,782 of 5,991
800S and V281 owner here. They're very good together. Bass is very punchy and extends well.

I demoed the HDV820 with an HD800S back when I was in Japan last month and found that the combo's alright. Not really worth the price IMO.
Do you have the standard volume pot or the most expensive relay steped one?

What did you think V281 does better?

V281 with HD800 S is not fatiguing in the highs?

Did you listen to the internal dac of the HDV 820? i would be using hugo 2 as dac.

Maybe you have a better dac when you listen at home with V281 then HDV820s internal dac?
 
Jul 29, 2018 at 11:48 AM Post #3,783 of 5,991
Jul 29, 2018 at 2:02 PM Post #3,784 of 5,991
About line in- and outputs, levels, impedances and cables between.

The past days this thread experienced a lively discussion amongst other things about the line outputs of HPA V281, their quality and if they are about to alter the sound – and if yes to the better or to the worse.
My opinion is that the line outputs from V220 / V281 are altering the sound by at least a very very small fraction (if any) because we worked hard to amend the signals as little as possible.

The key to unaltered sound is to take care about the impedances.
The output impedance of every electronic output shall be kept as low as possible, about 30 ohms or less. The input impedance of the following input shall be reasonably high, about 5 kOhm or more.
By doing so, all involved components – output circuitry, cable, input circuitry - will act as transparent as possible.
Also the overall gain should be as low as possible, the output level should be reasonable and preferably match the following stage and of course the frequency range should be sufficiently wide.
A low output impedance can only be made electronically with some active circuitry, mostly an op-amp or a discrete circuitry similar to an op-amp.
Any resistor in the output line will increase the output impedance and so make the output signal and the cable to the following unit sensitive for frequency alterations, EMC problems and other issues.

Remember: The higher the output impedance the higher the influence of the cable.
Don’t waste money for “sophisticated” cables but invest in low impedance outputs.

As a result from the above a passive attenuator will not work (never !!), because its output is variable and high impedance state.
Yes, some may claim that it sounds better - but its only sounding different !

Also, splitting cables should be avoided (driving two inputs from one output) as the generated impedance mismatches cannot be controlled.

To deal with high levels, the analog circuitry needs an appropriate operating voltage:
For about +21 dBu (approx. 9 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 15 volt is needed
For about +23 dBu (approx. 11 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 18 volts is needed
For about +24 dBu (approx. 12 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 20 V is needed.
Unfortunately many of the “sophisticated” op-amps and transistorized op-amp supplements are only suited for +/- 15 V. Also, the distortions will rise noticeably the closer the signal comes to the limits defined by the operating voltage.

Now you may ask yourself: why there are these high levels from (professional) D/A converters while my (consumer) CD player outputs about +4/+6 dBu.

An answer is the different (professional) conversion standards from digital levels to analog levels.
The US standard (SMPTE RP 155) define the digital full scale level (0 dBFs) to be translated into +24 dB analog level. The European Broadcasters (EBU R68) are translating 0 dBFs to be +18 dBu while the German Broadcasters (IRT) are converting the same digital level to be +15 dBu.

So, some equipment claiming to be made to “professional” standards will output +24 dBu analog level which may perhaps override the inputs of the subsequent (consumer) equipment or is on the edge to considerable distortion.

Some of these units/manufacturers don´t care for “consumer” needs and do nothing.
Some are adding passive attenuators to lower the level – what is the wrong measure because
it scales up the output impedance (see above).
Some are adapting the analog level in an active way, preserving the low output impedance.
Guess what we do at Lake people / Violectric.

Please note that all D/A converter chips are powered from 5 V or less single supply voltage. So the maximum output level of such chips is +8 dBu or lower.
When a D/A converter outputs +24 dBu this means that the signal is boosted by at least +16 dB inside the unit, raising probably hiss and noise - to be unnecessarily attenuated in an appropriate way to fit the following equipment …

Coming back to HPA V281 and most other lake People and Violectric gear and the treatment of the line output signals I want to make clear that we had the above problems in mind and engineered our input/output circuitry as optimal and variable as possible.
Our line outputs have very low impedances ( < 1 Ohm).
The output levels are adaptable by dip-switches or multi-turn attenuators to match the subsequent gear. This circuitry is found in front of any output circuitry.
Of course it is imaginable that a power-amp and speaker or active speaker will sound different through other devices – but if this is “better” or “worse” are personal preferences.
We do our best not to change anything !
 
Jul 29, 2018 at 2:56 PM Post #3,785 of 5,991
Nice review. Can I ask, did you use the balanced 4 pin output or SE on the 6.3mm. I suspect the SE as you found the 200 so similar to the 281?

Thanks :) I used the balanced output all the time. "Similar" is of course a relative term. But since the V281 basically is a dual mono V200 amp module with different PSU and volume control, they are expectede to sound somewhat similar.
 
Jul 29, 2018 at 3:51 PM Post #3,786 of 5,991
GOT MINE ORDERED - WHOAAA!

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So just went ahead and ordered this beast. I have the little Metrum Aurux HP amplifier which is a very simple impedance corrector using 2 x small Lundhai transformers and the optional 6x gain to 6v output. I run it on Unity to my LCD4s. The amp is only 6.3mm jack single ended.

My DAC is the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II, and has a rare 10v output (tube gain stage single ended). So we shall see how it sounds when the amp arrives. I have a Norne Audio Draug all silver balanced cable coming to run to the 4 pin output on the V281. I may have to set some pre-reduction on the V281, not sure yet. Maybe not though, it depends what gain the V281 provides when on 0 setting (default) on the back switches.

The other aspect I am excited about is the positives on here about using it as an active pre-amp feeding a power amp. Currently I use a passive with a very good 48 step pot to feed my Plinius SA-103.It worlds very well, but maybe an active pre in the V281 will beat it. But primarily I am after a top HP amplifier. The LCD4s are hungry, and I am thinking even though I have enough gain on the Aurix the sound quality of the Violectric will surpass it..... will report back in a week or so. If all goes pear shaped I have 30 days to return it (shipping my cost).
 
Jul 29, 2018 at 5:32 PM Post #3,787 of 5,991
one thing you will never have any problem with is power especially in the balanced mode....the 281 is a beast and unlike most beasts it is also quite delicate sounding...great detail and fine soundstage.....i am a big fan of the pregain settings as well
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 4:39 AM Post #3,788 of 5,991
I feel a need to ask another technical question wrt the V281 here. It has been indicated a couple of times in this thread, but maybe @fdg could answer with his authority. What is the operating principle, class A or class A/B? Please, Mr. Fried Reim, could you comment on what was chosen for the V281 and why?

PS: My other question regarding the “balanced“ topic was answered VERY satisfactorily. Thanks again.
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 4:41 AM Post #3,789 of 5,991
I think that the V281 should be demoed with the pre-gain setting@-14db as I think it sounds best with that position.
And if people doubt the power then you can always raise the DIPs.
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 5:55 AM Post #3,790 of 5,991
I think that the V281 should be demoed with the pre-gain setting@-14db as I think it sounds best with that position.
And if people doubt the power then you can always raise the DIPs.

This is music to my ears (sorry for the pun) as I will probably need to set max defeat with my 10v line out on my DAC. I am unsure if it is to avoid overload on the V281, more to have a usable pot control i.e. not too loud at only 1/4 turn.
ideally I guess loud listing should be at 12'oclock I imagine, so you have fine adjustment and dynamic headroom?

On a typical 2v output DAC and say the LCD2-C, where is the pot when the default pre-fades are all off (0db)? On my little Metrum it is at 2 o'clock for loud listening. If the V281 is at 12 o'clock with the LCD2-C then I reckon my 10v DAC and the LCD4 will be bang on the same thinking how they compare now on the little Metrum amp. i.e the LCD4 is 6dB less loud than the LCD2-C.
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 1:28 PM Post #3,791 of 5,991
Thanks :) I used the balanced output all the time. "Similar" is of course a relative term. But since the V281 basically is a dual mono V200 amp module with different PSU and volume control, they are expectede to sound somewhat similar.
I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.

If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.
 
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Jul 30, 2018 at 1:52 PM Post #3,792 of 5,991
I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.

If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.

I dunno. I have read from members on here, and other reviews, there is a more marked differences on the balanced 4 pin v the 6.3mm SE output jack. But anyway, I will know in a weeks time when my V281 lands coupled to the Norne Draug all Silver balanced cable. I have an SE 6.3 adapter for it as well, so can A/B.

The other things is, the V281 has the later modified V200 boards, so anyone who had the older V200 should see a difference and some.

I am a bit nervous about having to use the full pre-fade switches, I hope it isn't going to reduce sound quality?

I am actually wondering if I might get away without it, as my LCD4 is 6dB less efficient than my LCD2-C, which on my little Aurix amp on 2v input from my other DAC, the LCD2 is on 10 o'clock for loud listening, and the LCD4 is on 2 o'clock.

On my 10v DAC the LCD4 is back on 10'oclock. In other words the 10v input is 6db difference. Might get away with no pre-fade at all? We shall see.
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 2:16 PM Post #3,793 of 5,991
I am currently using the -12 setting in balanced mode with the susvara to give you an idea of just how much power the 281 has....
 
Jul 30, 2018 at 4:00 PM Post #3,794 of 5,991
you don't lose anything with pre-gain at -14db. On the contrary, you have more room for the volume control which both HD800 and LCD-2 certainly could need as they are easy to drive for the V281.

I'm at 11 o'clock with the HD800 balanced on the track "In Search of Life", Stellaris OST and that's a borderline volume for me. Same for "Africa" by Toto, "Bette Davis Eyes", "China Girl, 1999 remastered"

It's certainly too loud for "nothing's gonna stop us now", "under pressure", "billie jean"

Tracks like "Hotel California" from "Hell freezes over" can take 12 o'clock but I wouldn't recommend it. That amazing bass at the beginning though. :slight_smile:
 
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Jul 30, 2018 at 4:30 PM Post #3,795 of 5,991
I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.

If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.

Hm. I definetly find the V281 worth its price. But sometimes good amps are hard to differentiate with certain songs, especially with similarly tuned amps. I try to be honest about that in my track by track comparisons. But over all, the V281 is quite a big improvement, especially in the treble and bass regions.
 

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