[DJGeorgeT]

CDs sound plasticly, cold, unisteresting...too clean. Vinyl sounds warm, welcoming, exciting.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion You made an excellent choice in tt's. It sounds great and looks great. It was one of the few audio components I had that my wife actually commented on how good it looked. Enjoy your new tt.

Indeed. I definitely enjoyed my time with that particular scout when I demoed it in Norwalk, CT. It's a very good demonstration of exactly what vinyl is capable of performing.

Now if only they moved the price point a decimal or two to the left, then we'd be in business

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Indeed. I definitely enjoyed my time with that particular scout when I demoed it in Norwalk, CT. It's a very good demonstration of exactly what vinyl is capable of performing. Now if only they moved the price point a decimal or two to the left, then we'd be in business

It is a bit pricey but in terms of the sq per dollar you get, it is a bargain. They show up on Audiogon for between $1,000 to $1200 from time to time.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart Still your description of the 588 is odd. Every Meridian CD player I've heard had a warmish, analogue-leaning sound.

Strange... perhaps it was something else that was missing in the 588. All I know is that when comparing it to my Eastsound it seemed as if the output from the Meridian was strained through a filter that sort of took the fun out of the music.

 

[lini]

Hmmm, there's no denying that vinyl fares worse in practically any "classical" measurement discipline. Still, in comparision, the cd sounds somewhat unnatural to quite a few listeners... So it might make sense to further investigate and compare the common and specific flaws and their effects of both formats. Currently I tend to think that both timing and quantization errors in the pcm coding scheme might produce artifacts that are hard to cope with for our brain, 'cause these might seem less correlated to the signal and/or have no natural equivalent unlike the typical analogue flaws of vinyl.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini Hmmm, there's no denying that vinyl fares worse in practically any "classical" measurement discipline. Still, in comparision, the cd sounds somewhat unnatural to quite a few listeners... So it might make sense to further investigate and compare the common and specific flaws and their effects of both formats. Currently I tend to think that both timing and quantization errors in the pcm coding scheme might produce artifacts that are hard to cope with for our brain, 'cause these might seem less correlated to the signal and/or have no natural equivalent unlike the typical analogue flaws of vinyl. Greetings from Hannover! Manfred / lini

Yes, very interesting indeed. I think what we can really take from the debate is that there are merits in both types of formats and that there are folks that enjoy both. Frankly, I believe it should be the music that drives the purchase. If one doesn't really like what is offered on vinyl, don't start dropping cash on the gear just to be "into vinyl." I know for example that minya won't be jumping into vinyl anytime soon. The vast majority of the music he listens to is CD only. Smart move on his part.

I do like vinyl for the tactile experience, the retro feel, and the "sex appeal" thing. I also like it because of the price of the media, not to mention the "never to be implemented" DRM thing. Sure, backing up vinyl is a pain in the behind, and not something I am likely to do anytime soon, if ever, but well, frankly, that is the least of my worries at the moment. I just hope the next cd I buy, will play readily in any of my drives, without me having to crack the DRM and then burn to a cdr in order for me to play what I paid good money to listen to.

 

[memepool]

"I have to tell you man. In listening to sound, I guess what I'm after is the closest thing that I can get to reality. Now, I know it's not going to be reality, cause the thing gotta go through wires and gotta go through filters and this and that. I understand all that. But what I really like is to get as close to the natural sound of the instruments as possible. That's why I like analog as opposed to digital. Because I don't give a **** what anybody tells you man, I know what you guys are going to tell me...'Oh yeah, but it's clean Ray!' Well it's clean but it don't got no balls!!!"

Ray Charles - 1999 interview with by Michael Hobson of Classic Records

 

[screwdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran Comito I broke down and ordered a VPI Scout and a Shelter 501 cartridge from Todd. It should be fun comparing the two formats. For cd players I have the Naim CDS 2 and a Cary 303/200.

My set up is pretty similar - i have a naim cd 3.5 with a flatcap PS - then i have a VPi scoutmaster with a dynavector cart.

having both rigs - is a blessing .
I prefer the sound of vinyl - esp on excellent recordings - its mindblowing.

then for music not on LP's - i use the cd player .

I use it mainly on spekaer set up -

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool 'Oh yeah, but it's clean Ray!' Well it's clean but it don't got no balls!!!

Great quote.

..oh, and my CD player definately has balls.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool "I have to tell you man. In listening to sound, I guess what I'm after is the closest thing that I can get to reality. Now, I know it's not going to be reality, cause the thing gotta go through wires and gotta go through filters and this and that. I understand all that. But what I really like is to get as close to the natural sound of the instruments as possible. That's why I like analog as opposed to digital. Because I don't give a **** what anybody tells you man, I know what you guys are going to tell me...'Oh yeah, but it's clean Ray!' Well it's clean but it don't got no balls!!!" Ray Charles - 1999 interview with by Michael Hobson of Classic Records

Yeah -- but that was 1999...

CD playback has much improved since an is closer to the format's capacity.

 

[Veto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool "I have to tell you man. In listening to sound, I guess what I'm after is the closest thing that I can get to reality. Now, I know it's not going to be reality, cause the thing gotta go through wires and gotta go through filters and this and that. I understand all that. But what I really like is to get as close to the natural sound of the instruments as possible. That's why I like analog as opposed to digital. Because I don't give a **** what anybody tells you man, I know what you guys are going to tell me...'Oh yeah, but it's clean Ray!' Well it's clean but it don't got no balls!!!" Ray Charles - 1999 interview with by Michael Hobson of Classic Records

I believe this quote has more to do with recording equipment that cd vs vinyl.
It's inherit in the sytems (digital vs Tape) that both have a different way of presenting the sound due to the recording chain.

Veto

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veto I believe this quote has more to do with recording equipment that cd vs vinyl. It's inherit in the sytems (digital vs Tape) that both have a different way of presenting the sound due to the recording chain.

Have these recording techniques changed at all since 1999? Anyone know if their has been any advancements in the technology used in the recording equipment? I don't know myself, but I would guess that their have been improvements in both the technology and the methods used in creating digital recordings.

The main problem I see with digital media is the people that are ruining it. Companys that mix popular CD's in such a way that they are bass bloated or treble happy so that they sound good on all the crappy stereo's out there are wrecking it for those of us that have good systems. That said, most of the music I listen to is outside of the mainstream and as such the artists and producers tend to care more about sound quality.

 

[djbnh]

My preference with my speakered system sometimes is vinyl, sometimes CD. If it's ease of use (please, don't work on a vinyl rig when you've been drinking!), then it's my Jolida cdp. If it's the even more heightened audio experience I'm after, then I go to my vinyl rig:

Rega P25, with the following: Michell Tecno Arm Stub & Counterweight, a huge improvement over the stock counterweight; upgraded subplatter & bearing; cartridge = Denon DL-103R (low output moving coil, output voltage: 0.25mV; see Arthur Salvatore's recommended components), Walker SST on cartridge pins. P25 rests on Audio Selection Gold Cones, on 35 lb. piece of 1.5" marble, on German Physics cones, on ART Q dampers. Make use of TWL's strange tonearm tweak, which is great for Rega TTs. Alignment tools include: bubble level, free protractor from The Vinyl Engine, Hi-Fi News Test Record (invaluable!), Shure SFG-2 Stylus Force Gauge. Preamp = Odyssey Audio Tempest with MM/MC phono stage. Stylus cleaning tool = Onzow Zerodust.

I have found proper set-up of a TT and cartridge, while oft a PIA, is quite necessary to get the most out of a vinyl rig. The inherent initial tedium of checking and rechecking for spot-on cartridge alignment and VTF helps ensure you'll get the most out of your rig. The Hi-Fi News Test Record, which makes setting proper anti-skate a breeze, also is an asset in other areas of fine tuning so one can maximize the potential of your rig.

Now cleaning and storing vinyl - that's a whole other story. I'd much rather deal with CDs in that area.

 

[Kieran Comito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Have these recording techniques changed at all since 1999? Anyone know if their has been any advancements in the technology used in the recording equipment? I don't know myself, but I would guess that their have been improvements in both the technology and the methods used in creating digital recordings. The main problem I see with digital media is the people that are ruining it. Companys that mix popular CD's in such a way that they are bass bloated or treble happy so that they sound good on all the crappy stereo's out there are wrecking it for those of us that have good systems. That said, most of the music I listen to is outside of the mainstream and as such the artists and producers tend to care more about sound quality.

Hmm. If they can mix stuff so it sounds good on crappy equipment, then why do guys like us try and get the good stuff?

Seriously, I noticed this too. I have put a cd in my car stereo and it sounded good then I put it in my main system and everthing collapses. It is frustrating.

 

[Veto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Have these recording techniques changed at all since 1999? Anyone know if their has been any advancements in the technology used in the recording equipment? I don't know myself, but I would guess that their have been improvements in both the technology and the methods used in creating digital recordings. The main problem I see with digital media is the people that are ruining it. Companys that mix popular CD's in such a way that they are bass bloated or treble happy so that they sound good on all the crappy stereo's out there are wrecking it for those of us that have good systems. That said, most of the music I listen to is outside of the mainstream and as such the artists and producers tend to care more about sound quality.

Sure, there are advancements especially in the digital domain.
What I think was mainly addressed in the quote was what tape does to the recorded signal. It's not a coincedence that a lot of engineers prefer to track drums on tape. The tape compression does wonders to the sound. As always, you have to know how to use it to your advantage.

Veto