[golov17]

Normal services

 

[Brooko]

Another perspective on Zen 2

OK - I've followed all the recent posts about using rubber rings, ear guides etc on the Zen 2 - and TBH I really don't get it.  I don't have the Earhookz look-a-likes, so have just been using the ones that came with the Dunu Titan 3/5.  They're silicone, don't interrupt the ports (the way I have them anyway), so effectively they're doing the same thing you guys are.
 

• To me they have a very slight impact on the bass, but this to me is good - I like the bass the way it is.
   
• But they do bring the mids more forward, and also lessen the natural soundstage I get from having the Zen 2 naked
   
• By bringing the mids further forward (accentuating them), it tends to have female vocalists sounding quite nasal and a bit strident.

 
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this?  I've seen a lot of posts about how wonderful the Zen2 is with silicone covers (quite a bit of hype actually).  If they came with covers that you couldn't take off (and sounded like this) - I'd quite literally sell them / give them away.
 
Without covers - sublime
 
With covers - not for this kid.

 

[golov17]

Good work

Spoiler

bad work

Spoiler

for my ears

 

[Brooko]

Hi Golov
 
What happens with the wrong outer covers (for your ears)?  Are you getting same thing I am - ie far too forward mid-range - seems to be around 1-1.5 kHz?  I can EQ it down a bit and it helps.
 
And what changes when you get the right covers - can you pin-point the change to frequencies?  I read a lot of the hype and it's frustrating because all I read is "best thing evva!!!! ", but nobody can articulate which frequency ranges are actually changing, and what is happening to the actual sonics so I can understand it.
 
And it's not something I can actually measure this time - because if I use the covers with Veritas, it'll create a perfect seal, and that isn't what happens in real life.
 
Any help you can give would be appreciated my friend.

 

[golov17]

Yes, you are able to explain properly. The main drawback is the rapid rolling the HF region.

 

[golov17]

the main principle is not to form a "pipe" and the edge of the ring does not protrude higher than the edge of the scope of cover.

Spoiler

 

[golov17]

And one more trick. Bud in your ear firmly lower - rear edge and at the same time loose top - front. At least, this works fine for me, but all the different anatomy of the ear, so I can not guarantee the same for everyone. But Zen2.0 worth it to tinker with him, lol
Also, i love to listen to him at a low volume, for some reason, me like this more

 

[nmatheis]

Brooko: Experiment a little, buddy. You just might find you like the rubber rims/rings as much as the rest of us do. If not, you're only out a few dollars.

 

[Brooko]

Nick - I do experiment - and I'm not getting the improvements.
 
If it's just added seal - and that for me accentuates the more forward mid-range - then it isn't an improvement.  It makes it worse.

 

[nmatheis]

I know you love to experiment, Paul. So you've tried rubber rims and covers like Oleg, Tamal, and I have?

 

[Brooko]

I've used the Dunu covers, and also a cheap pair of covers I got with another pair of buds along time ago.  I've also cut them down to simulate your "rubber rims". Believe it or not I also tried a small mechanical rubber O-ring (the type you use for sealing metal pipes).  None of it improves the sound IMO.  There is already a bump in the mid-range between 1-2 kHz which naturally brings the mid-range forward. If I use any kind of rubber seal - it brings that even further forward, and makes a lot of music really strident.  It also kills the impression of sound-stage.
 
And I'm pretty sure my pair will be consistent with yours - just simply because I know how well Lee matches drivers on the higher end pairs.  So for him to have Zen2 with different signatures is unlikely.
 
Also - I'm a loooong way away from where you guys are, so sometimes it's not so easy to get accessories you guys take for granted (try googling "Invercargill, New Zealand").  Apart from a small (and very beautiful) island to the immediate south of us (or Australia to the West) - the next major land mass is Antarctica.
 
So for now I think I'll stick to them naked, and continue scratching my head as to what voodoo you're performing 

 
Oh - and I didn't get Lee's "Earhookz" with mine - may have a pair coming in future though.

 

[waynes world]

  Hi Golov
 
What happens with the wrong outer covers (for your ears)?  Are you getting same thing I am - ie far too forward mid-range - seems to be around 1-1.5 kHz?  I can EQ it down a bit and it helps.
 
And what changes when you get the right covers - can you pin-point the change to frequencies?  I read a lot of the hype and it's frustrating because all I read is "best thing evva!!!! ", but nobody can articulate which frequency ranges are actually changing, and what is happening to the actual sonics so I can understand it.
 
And it's not something I can actually measure this time - because if I use the covers with Veritas, it'll create a perfect seal, and that isn't what happens in real life.
 
Any help you can give would be appreciated my friend.

 
Fwiw, I was using the rubber rings (supplied with 2.0's with fins cut off) and they sounded great. I then tried moving the rubber rings farther back as per golov17's recommendation, and then they sounded like you are describing. I then took them off and they are sounding great again (although I'll have to get the rubber rings back on again and fitted properly to compare with naked). My point and guess is that covering up the (bass?) ports on the back drastically affects the sound. I might look into buying the narrower rings.

 

[nmatheis]

Thanks for the explanation, Paul! What I wasn't getting was that you actually tried the rubber rims. If it was there and I missed it, my bad. I've got a wicked cold right now, so I could've easily missed it.

As to whether or not the rubber covers & rims make the Zen 2.0 sound nasally, nasty, and out of balance. I don't think Oleg, Tamal, or I would be "hyping" them if we didn't find it made an audible improvement.

Out of all of us, I bet Oleg's the guy with the most earbud experience by far, so I'm pretty likely to listen to him when he's got something to say. Guy's an earbud ninja, IMHO. RESPECT golov17!!!

I'm gonna be putting my money where my mouth is. I've got several respectable guys lined up to give the Zen a listen, and I'm going to be sending my only pairs of Yuin rubber rims and perforated covers along for the ride (along with a note not to lose them, lol). I'm curious to see how many of them really like them. Hopefully they'll share their experiences with us here!

 

[Brooko]

  Fwiw, I was using the rubber rings (supplied with 2.0's with fins cut off) and they sounded great. I then tried moving the rubber rings farther back as per golov17's recommendation, and then they sounded like you are describing. I then took them off and they are sounding great again (although I'll have to get the rubber rings back on again and fitted properly to compare with naked). My point and guess is that covering up the (bass?) ports on the back drastically affects the sound. I might look into buying the narrower rings.

 
Thanks!  This is what I was after.  Now I can go see if I can simulate it a little better.  Going to see if I can find a flat round rubber "washer" that will fit.

 

[RedJohn456]

   
Fwiw, I was using the rubber rings (supplied with 2.0's with fins cut off) and they sounded great. I then tried moving the rubber rings farther back as per golov17's recommendation, and then they sounded like you are describing. I then took them off and they are sounding great again (although I'll have to get the rubber rings back on again and fitted properly to compare with naked). My point and guess is that covering up the (bass?) ports on the back drastically affects the sound. I might look into buying the narrower rings.

I think thats the crux of the issue. The earhoox and generic ear hooks have narrow rings that dont cover the passport. I just gives a more defined soundstage when I use it, with a more defined mirage and upper range with better defined bass as well.