[bcowen]

Hah!! Nice try, I'm not participating in this little charade.

Wuss.

 

[bcowen]

These Ebay sellers crack me up sometimes. You can buy a brand new, full warranty Loki from Schiit for $149. Or you can spend $80 more to get this one from some yokel with a whopping feedback score of 30, no warranty, and no friggin' guarantee you'll ever even get it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Lok...108505?hash=item340defa4d9:g:BNgAAOSw-49dGe86

But wait. There's more! This one has not only 3 channels, but 3 sets of RCA inputs. And if you order now, you'll even get 3 digital inputs. Absolutely free! And as a final bonus, you get a Class A amplifier included, but only if you order NOW. Now, damnit. Nevermind what I said above...this thing is a STEAL!! I'm simply LMAO.....

 

[Ripper2860]

Oooooh. They had me at 'Bass Gyrator'!!

 

[bcowen]

Oooooh. They had me at 'Bass Gyrator'!!

Mine doesn't have a bass gyrator. And I'd probably be pissed as schiit about it if I knew what it was.

 

[Logistics]

audiophile-class Soundblaster Pro audio card
audiophile-class Soundblaster
Soundblaster

Why do you post ambiguously about it?

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

Well, the Hytrons were no help. Only intact lettering (beyond the logo) was on top, 7A4 XXL with GOB, HOB, and FOB which I believe were probably just lot numbers.

The Hytron matches identically internally to a Raytheon though that is mostly readable. The 280 in the first line is Raytheon's EIA code, and the number beneath it is 617. I'm no expert at reading these, but I believe the 6 is the year of manufacture, likely '46 but possibly '56 with the 17 denoting the week.



Then with entirely different internal construction than those (but matching each other) are a GE and a Philco. May be hard to see, but the diameter of the round part of the plate is much smaller in these than the Hytron/Raytheon.


Then there's the VT-192's. Same internally as the Hytron/Raytheon. Same size plates, 3/4round bottom mica, and large rectangular top mica:


Then I have a half dozen Sylvania and Westinghouse branded ones that are different entirely than all of these, mostly in the mica shapes and configs and also the length of the plates. So if I had to guess, I'd say these Hytrons were mid-40's production, but take that FWIW based on my limited knowledge here.

Thank you for this detailed info. Which one sounds the best to you? Apart of the CBS-branded ones, which have a distinct high mids and treble (which may not be to everyone's liking), I have 10+ of Sylvanias 1945/5 in exactly the same boxes as in your picture, with the same contract # and same dates, 3 Sylvanias in 1943 Signal Corps boxes, tube markings and bases slightly different, and a couple of Philco. To my ears, Sylvanias are the best, and the ones from 1943 in US Signal Corps boxes are the best among them.

 

[bcowen]

Thank you for this detailed info. Which one sounds the best to you? Apart of the CBS-branded ones, which have a distinct high mids and treble (which may not be to everyone's liking), I have 10+ of Sylvanias 1945/5 in exactly the same boxes as in your picture, with the same contract # and same dates, 3 Sylvanias in 1943 Signal Corps boxes, tube markings and bases slightly different, and a couple of Philco. To my ears, Sylvanias are the best, and the ones from 1943 in US Signal Corps boxes are the best among them.

To be honest, I haven't given all these a thorough evaluation. I have 5 different pairs I can match up that have identical internal configurations but different external branding in some cases. I have the Hytrons in now, and that grittiness in the lower treble has improved to the point I don't really hear it anymore. But after the initial wow factor on 'gentler' music I got kind of tired of them with the presentation in that area -- too pronounced and forward and higher in amplitude than the rest of the frequency spectrum. With some dark sounding 'phones these may be the ticket, but not with the Aeons for the long term and across multiple music types. I only gave a very brief listen to the '45 VT-192's when I first got them, and need to put them in next for some extended listening (and yes, Tom, some break-in voodoo ). After that I'll try the Sylvanias with the tall plates and the notched and skinny top/bottom micas (a couple of those are Westinghouse branded). Same problem with those on the markings though...most are very faint or rubbed off altogether so it may be tough to determine the manufacturing data. I'll look moire closely when I whip them out again.

 

[Paladin79]

To be honest, I haven't given all these a thorough evaluation. I have 5 different pairs I can match up that have identical internal configurations but different external branding in some cases. I have the Hytrons in now, and that grittiness in the lower treble has improved to the point I don't really hear it anymore. But after the initial wow factor on 'gentler' music I got kind of tired of them with the presentation in that area -- too pronounced and forward and higher in amplitude than the rest of the frequency spectrum. With some dark sounding 'phones these may be the ticket, but not with the Aeons for the long term and across multiple music types. I only gave a very brief listen to the '45 VT-192's when I first got them, and need to put them in next for some extended listening (and yes, Tom, some break-in voodoo ). After that I'll try the Sylvanias with the tall plates and the notched and skinny top/bottom micas (a couple of those are Westinghouse branded). Same problem with those on the markings though...most are very faint or rubbed off altogether so it may be tough to determine the manufacturing data. I'll look moire closely when I whip them out again.

Just accept that the VT 192's are wonderful sounding and be done with it lol. I have not heard the 1943's but the 1945's are quite good.

Tube sound does not change much for me over break in but that may be just me. How does one recall on one day what they heard compared to a week later or a month later? Are you running the same music in the same sequence? Are all things the same with your amplifier and source material? I run a Gumby and am told I should let that run round the clock, I do not so maybe later in the day it sounds better. I think temperament on a given day might make a difference, some days I have little time and can only listen for an hour. On other days I can search and search and find the perfect song that sounds so good yet on another day does the sound move me the same way? When ODD kicks back with a nice glass of wine and relaxes, is that the same as listening at 9 AM when you know you are about to start your day? YMMV but those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[Ripper2860]

Why do you post ambiguously about it?

There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about my post The SB Pro is 'audiophile-class' and a definite upgrade from the SB16. The new technical advances offered by the SB Pro firmly places it into the realm of elite and revolutionary products such as the Pocket Fisherman, Slinky, and original K-Cup.

 

[bcowen]

Tube sound does not change much for me over break in but that may be just me.

I'm pretty sure that's just you. LOL!!

In my experience, some tubes change very little, and some change quite a bit as they break-in over the first few dozen hours. I'm not a scientist or an engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but just on a logical basis a new (old stock) tube may have some extraneous gas in it initially that burns off or is absorbed by the getter after the cathode heats for a while. With manufacturing techniques back then, it's logical to assume that the cathode coating was not perfectly even and of precision thickness from end to end -- thicker areas would burn off faster than thinner areas as the tube was used. Same with metallurgy -- the purity and consistency was likely not precise, and after high temperature exposure the alloys would likely begin to migrate and disperse more evenly over time. I think there are several factors that could affect the sound of the tube as it is used on an initial basis, but that's just me. No desire on my part to hash this out forever. You may be entirely correct that there is NO change in the mechanical or electrical characteristics of the tube itself and the only changes are psychoacoustic and/or environmental influences. But I may also be correct that there is some change beyond the external factors, and most likely the reality is somewhere in between. I'm leaving now to work on my correctly oriented dual-tube adapter adapter.

 

[Paladin79]

I'm pretty sure that's just you. LOL!!

In my experience, some tubes change very little, and some change quite a bit as they break-in over the first few dozen hours. I'm not a scientist or an engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but just on a logical basis a new (old stock) tube may have some extraneous gas in it initially that burns off or is absorbed by the getter after the cathode heats for a while. With manufacturing techniques back then, it's logical to assume that the cathode coating was not perfectly even and of precision thickness from end to end -- thicker areas would burn off faster than thinner areas as the tube was used. Same with metallurgy -- the purity and consistency was likely not precise, and after high temperature exposure the alloys would likely begin to migrate and disperse more evenly over time. I think there are several factors that could affect the sound of the tube as it is used on an initial basis, but that's just me. No desire on my part to hash this out forever. You may be entirely correct that there is NO change in the mechanical or electrical characteristics of the tube itself and the only changes are psychoacoustic and/or environmental influences. But I may also be correct that there is some change beyond the external factors, and most likely the reality is somewhere in between. I'm leaving now to work on my correctly oriented dual-tube adapter adapter.

As a tube gets older there are some changes, and they are generally measurable. My background is science and engineering, I do not do pseudo science.

Here is a great add on Ebay, I may have to try this to dispose of some of the GE tubes I am currently testing!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-6...847138?hash=item4b63bc87e2:g:0bQAAOSwRI1cy0gY

I have some miscellaneous tube boxes I could use.

 

[Logistics]

There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about my post The SB Pro is 'audiophile-class' and a definite upgrade from the SB16. The new technical advances offered by the SB Pro firmly places it into the realm of elite and revolutionary products such as the Pocket Fisherman, Slinky, and original K-Cup.

Oh, you were speaking literally, of THE SBPro?! You're my new hero! Actually, you make me wonder, though as I have a thread, here wherein I refreshed an SB16 with new caps. But I didnt really, refresh it the way I wanted to with films and such. I may have an SB 1.5, but never ran across an sbpro.

 

[bcowen]

There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about my post The SB Pro is 'audiophile-class' and a definite upgrade from the SB16. The new technical advances offered by the SB Pro firmly places it into the realm of elite and revolutionary products such as the Pocket Fisherman, Slinky, and original K-Cup.

And you left out Billy Bass? Hopefully that was a simple oversight and not intentional.

 

[Ripper2860]

Oh, you were speaking literally, of THE SBPro?! You're my new hero! Actually, you make me wonder, though as I have a thread, here wherein I refreshed an SB16 with new caps. But I didnt really, refresh it the way I wanted to with films and such. I may have an SB 1.5, but never ran across an sbpro.

I was kidding. The SB Pro (there was actually a Sound Blaster Pro) was definitely a very good card in its time, but time marches on. (I really liked my Gravis sound card better, but SB was very nice). I was posting tongue-in-cheek at @bcowen by suggesting I was still using my 90's desktop CPU as opposed to a laptop and acting as if it were a leading edge music server. Windows 3.11, 512KB RAM, Pentium I, a SB soundcard, and dual Voodoo cards in SLI mode. Those were the days!!

And you left out Billy Bass? Hopefully that was a simple oversight and not intentional.

Why of course. How could I have possibly overlooked Billy Big Mouth ...

 

[Ripper2860]

Lyr rolling thread is dead, think I'll hang out here awhile.

There goes the neighborhood!!