[Old Deaf Donkey]

I got another Melz 1578 (68NS) at a very good price but there was only one available. That is one tube that if I can find for less than $100 I tend to grab.

I wonder where are you using them. As we discussed before, they sound unpleasantly dry in Vali 2 with AKG K702. My aune T1 has now arrived to my daughter in DC; maybe this MELZ tube will work for me as a DAC buffer.

While hope for me is questionable at best and of inordinate optimism, I did just spring for these.

Yeah, I know they're not VT-192's. Already have a pair of those that are quite nice, but for whatever reason have not inspired me to kneel at the altar of the tube gods. So I'll try a different flavor and see what happens. That, and I think I have a DNA mutation that results in obsessive hoarding collecting of $6 tubes.

Do you know who made these tubes? Some say Loctals were only made Sylvania, Raytheon and National Union. Some say Philco invented them, but anyway they bought Lansdale from NU in 1947. So Hytron as well as CBS, must be rebrands. I have read somewhere that virtually all rebranded loctals were made by Sylvania.

 

[Paladin79]

I wonder where are you using them. As we discussed before, they sound unpleasantly dry in Vali 2 with AKG K702. My aune T1 has now arrived to my daughter in DC; maybe this MELZ tube will work for me as a DAC buffer.

I am using two in a Freya, and one in a Bottlehead Crack at the moment. I have not really heard that response about the Melz 1578 from eight others I know who use them. I have run them in the Vali and used Sennheiser and MrSpeakers headphones and love the sound more than any other 6sn7, a couple get close. Mids and highs are remarkable and the bass is certainly adequate.

We agree on the VT-192's, the Melz I got were made in a specific time frame. I have a single on the way that could be older that has the same characteristics but who knows about sound. Also I am sure to re-flow the solder on the pins on those so there may be a few variables involved.

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

I am using two in a Freya, and one in a Bottlehead Crack at the moment. I have not really heard that response about the Melz 1578 from eight others I know who use them. I have run them in the Vali and used Sennheiser and MrSpeakers headphones and love the sound more than any other 6sn7, a couple get close. Mids and highs are remarkable and the bass is certainly adequate.

I agree that the analytical precision of the MELZ 6H8C is difficult to match. However, what disappoints me is the lack of coherence of agregating various frequencies - MELZ leaves them each on their own. Maybe that's K702, but it is not much better to my ears on HE400i either. The 6SN7 tubes I like: Brimar/Mullard, and RCA grey glass have very good resolution as well, but they weave the sounds into a coherent whole with a lot of character and realism - which does not happen to me on the MELZ tube. Another thing is that as someone has put it the notes produced by it "have no shadow", i.e. while bright and precise they remain flat and dry. It results to me in a lack of musical engagement. I wonder myself because I like bright and resolving sound signatures (such as my newly disovered Tungsram 6DJ8), but I also need that coherence across the whole range of the flues and reeds, when Weinrich plays on the Holtcamp organ at the Good Shepherd, and richness of the texture of the notes which convey the sonic charasteristics of an instrument and the way it is played: I want to hear Heifetz bowing sul ponticello on his Guarneri "the David" and the possibly full range of resulting reverberation in space, not just some violin strings bowed with highly precise tonal result. When I listen to Rostropovitch and Tachezi playing Ach, was ist doch unser Leben I want to be with them at St. Giles in the Barbican. The best (for my liking) tubes in Vali 2 with K702 take me there. The MELZ tube in my setup somehow "purifies" each note, and whilst resulting clarity is amazing, the baby has been thown out with the bathing water for me. I do not know if I managed to explain it well.

I should also refrain from listening to 3 different tubes every day, and give them time.

 

[Paladin79]

I agree that the analytical precision of the MELZ 6H8C is difficult to match. However, what disappoints me is the lack of coherence of agregating various frequencies - MELZ leaves them each on their own. Maybe that's K702, but it is not much better to my ears on HE400i either. The 6SN7 tubes I like: Brimar/Mullard, and RCA grey glass have very good resolution as well, but they weave the sounds into a coherent whole with a lot of character and realism - which does not happen to me on the MELZ tube. Another thing is that as someone has put it the notes produced by it "have no shadow", i.e. while bright and precise they remain flat and dry. It results to me in a lack of musical engagement. I wonder myself in because I like bright and resolving sound signatures (such as my newly disovered Tungsram 6DJ8), but I also need that coherence across the whole range of the flues and reeds, when Weinrich plays on the Holtcamp organ at the Good Shepherd, and richness of the texture of the notes which convey the sonic charasteristics of an instrument and the way it is played: I want to hear Heifetz bowing sul ponticello on his Guarneri "the David" and the possibly full range of resulting reverberation in space, not just some violin strings bowed with highly precise tonal result. When I listen to Rostropovitch and Tachezi playing Ach, was ist doch unser Leben I want to be with them at St. Giles in the Barbican. The best (for my liking) tubes in Vali 2 with K702 take me there. The MELZ tube in my setup somehow "purifies" each note, and whilst resulting clarity is amazing, the baby has been thown out with the bathing water for me. I do not know if I managed to explain it well.

I should also refrain from listening to 3 different tubes every day, and give them time.

I wonder if the "have no shadow" is a reduction in harmonics? I totally understand what you are saying ODD and perhaps so many tubes offer similar coherence to me that the Melz just jumps out as so different to me. I am using them in the Freya in conjunction with other tubes so maybe it is their accuracy and the blending with the other tubes that makes them so magical for me in that setting. The Crack has a pretty high degree of tube sound and often the bass and mids become muddy and overwhelming with specific tubes but the Melz solves that for me. I gave away a black glass RCA that was just too much for the Crack the way I have it set up now. In the Vali, the tube was shocking and different so maybe it was just a huge change that had an effect on me, but in my setup, I liked the effect. One mans lack of reverb may be another man's fast response and accuracy. I am also listening to a lot of blues, rock, and jazz in binaural recordings. One way I judge accuracy is by listening to how a piano is represented, I do not hear a lot of organ music so I am less attuned to that.

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

I wonder if the "have no shadow" is a reduction in harmonics? I totally understand what you are saying ODD and perhaps so many tubes offer similar coherence to me that the Melz just jumps out as so different to me. I am using them in the Freya in conjunction with other tubes so maybe it is their accuracy and the blending with the other tubes that makes them so magical for me in that setting. The Crack has a pretty high degree of tube sound and often the bass and mids become muddy and overwhelming with specific tubes but the Melz solves that for me. I gave away a black glass RCA that was just too much for the Crack the way I have it set up now. In the Vali, the tube was shocking and different so maybe it was just a huge change that had an effect on me, but in my setup, I liked the effect. One mans lack of reverb may be another man's fast response and accuracy. I am also listening to a lot of blues, rock, and jazz in binaural recordings. One way I judge accuracy is by listening to how a piano is represented, I do not hear a lot of organ music so I am less atuned to that.

"One man's lack of reverb may be another man's fast response and accuracy". Well said, so true.

I took another Melz tube from a different batch. Sounds exactly the same. Glenn Gould on piano sounds a little hollow, though. Maybe I am too harsh on them. I'll give them more time. Maybe I should wait for aune T1 to arrive.

Well, that may well be the case that Vali is a setup with one tube in the single stage. That is why your idea of adding a tube-based DAC to Vali 2 intrigued me so much that I went for it. Towards the end of the summer, I will have a chance to play with such a setup. I hope this brings about very rich opportunities.

I do listen to jazz, blues, and rock, too.

 

[Paladin79]

"One man's lack of reverb may be another man's fast response and accuracy". Well said, so true.

I took another Melz tube from a different batch. Sounds exactly the same. Glenn Gould on piano sounds a little hollow, though. Maybe I am too harsh on them. I'll give them more time. Maybe I should wait for aune T1 to arrive.

Well, that may well be the case that Vali is a setup with one tube in the single stage. That is why your idea of adding a tube-based DAC to Vali 2 intrigued me so much that I went for it. Towards the end of the summer, I will have a chance to play with such a setup. I hope this brings about very rich opportunities.

I do listen to jazz, blues, and rock, too.

I do listen to some classical but not nearly as much as I probably should. I have in excess of 40,000 albums but only about 4% are classical.

When I listened a lot to the Melz I did have the Aune hooked up so that may have influenced my opinion. When people listen to my system they always want to go back to my heavily modified DIY headphone amps, or else I am inadvertently leading them there. I have a few class a solid state headphone amps and no matter what, my friends drift back to the tube amps pretty quickly lol.

 

[bcowen]

I agree that the analytical precision of the MELZ 6H8C is difficult to match. However, what disappoints me is the lack of coherence of agregating various frequencies - MELZ leaves them each on their own. Maybe that's K702, but it is not much better to my ears on HE400i either. The 6SN7 tubes I like: Brimar/Mullard, and RCA grey glass have very good resolution as well, but they weave the sounds into a coherent whole with a lot of character and realism - which does not happen to me on the MELZ tube. Another thing is that as someone has put it the notes produced by it "have no shadow", i.e. while bright and precise they remain flat and dry. It results to me in a lack of musical engagement. I wonder myself because I like bright and resolving sound signatures (such as my newly disovered Tungsram 6DJ8), but I also need that coherence across the whole range of the flues and reeds, when Weinrich plays on the Holtcamp organ at the Good Shepherd, and richness of the texture of the notes which convey the sonic charasteristics of an instrument and the way it is played: I want to hear Heifetz bowing sul ponticello on his Guarneri "the David" and the possibly full range of resulting reverberation in space, not just some violin strings bowed with highly precise tonal result. When I listen to Rostropovitch and Tachezi playing Ach, was ist doch unser Leben I want to be with them at St. Giles in the Barbican. The best (for my liking) tubes in Vali 2 with K702 take me there. The MELZ tube in my setup somehow "purifies" each note, and whilst resulting clarity is amazing, the baby has been thown out with the bathing water for me. I do not know if I managed to explain it well.

I should also refrain from listening to 3 different tubes every day, and give them time.

I think you managed to explain it very well. And based on what you've said, have you tried an early 60's Telefunken 6DJ8/ECC88 in the Vali 2? Not a 6922 or E88CC, but the good old lowly 6DJ8. You might need new underwear afterwards. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as bright, but resolving? Oh yeah. And the antithesis of flat and dry....

 

[ScubaMan2017]

I love AC/DC. Second, of course, to Marilyn Manson.

Disturbed = (AC/DC) + 1

 

[ScubaMan2017]

I bought the Vali 2 b-stock for $99. First added the GE 5670W + adapter (~$20), then recently the Tung-Sol 6SN7 + adapter (~$40). Currently awaiting delivery of Sylvania 7A4 XXL's + adapter (~$75). Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Is there anything these Vali's CAN'T do. God I love 'em.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

That's how it looks:



Extremely high resolution and definition, fast dynamics, wide, deep and precise soundstage, balanced and rich tonality, well defined at all frequencies, Also rather analytical and revealing the detail, but not annoyingly so.

I remembered also my praise for dual RCA Radiotron 6J5. So I put them in for comparison with dual Sylvania VT-192. Need more time, different soundstages and different sound signatures, but both damn good...

So, for now, my top array is (not in particular order): dual Sylvania VT-192, dual RCA 6J5, Brimar/Mullard 6SN7, and Tungsram 6DJ8.

...remind me again. Is this model a 9-pin replacement for the 6SN7 (in case I want to do away with the 6922-to-6SN7 adapter)?

 

[Robert Padgett]

...remind me again. Is this model a 9-pin replacement for the 6SN7 (in case I want to do away with the 6922-to-6SN7 adapter)?

ScubaMan, both the Vali 2 and the Valhalla 2 use 6922-type novals as driver tubes. Any tube marked ECC88, E88CC, 6DJ8, 6BZ7 would be a drop in replacement for the stock 6N1P tubes. The 6SN7 adapter is allowing you to use that type tube in place of a 6922-type.

You would need an adapter for a 12A*7 tube, as the pin-out is different than a 6922-type. One thing about the 12AU7 tube is that it is a nice-sounding replacement for a 6SN7, and the nine-pin adapter will fit into the Valhalla 2 without an additional socket saver lifter. The 6CG7 is a nine-pin version of the 6SN7 and doesn't need any adapter to work on either Vali 2 and Valhalla 2.

Glad you found some socket-savers locally. I have discovered that they are a good way to keep my nine-pins from getting bent in the storage case. For some reason, pins on 6922-type tubes seem to be too easy to bend, yet the pins on the socket savers are a solid connection to the socket side, making them stronger. And the pins are "straightened" when you pull off the saver.

 

[bcowen]

The nice thing about the 12AU7 tube is that it is a direct replacement for a 6SN7 in terms of the internals...

Not to nitpick, but while a 12AU7 wired for 6.3 volt operation can be easily and safely subbed for a 6SN7, there are differences in the specs. The 6CG7 is the 9 pin version of the 6SN7 with identical (electrical) specs.

 

[bcowen]

Is there anything these Vali's CAN'T do.

Yes, but it would be ungentlemanly to detail it here.

 

[bcowen]

Disregard the 24x7 drone activity near your house. It has absolutely nothing to do with your tube stash or your wife's nude sunbathing.

I shot your drone down with my tube bazooka. But no need to feel bad for me -- I used a JAN Philips ECG 12AU7. It was a mercy killing.

 

[Ripper2860]

I lied. It has EVERYTHING to do with your wife's nude sunbathing!

2 words: Cloud Storage.