[SpiderNhan]

why would you buy the verza over an e17 Looking at specs, I saw no output difference, plus e17 has an eq. Is it the fact that it clips onto the iPhone or something? I don't own any apple products, nor will I ever. Buying v-moda headphones I understand, but buying a 500$ amp comparable to a 200$ amp? Confusion hits me. Can you explain to me what the reason is to buy that amp over any other at 500$? Is it better than the e17? I'd just like to know about it. It sure is a beautifully designed piece of equipment either way! That's a decent reason. Design. Another reason I guess is feasible is that it hooks onto your phone (I'm never buying an iPhone however. They look good, and sound decent, but the UI is too simple, you have to go through iTunes which pisses me off, and it isn't open source. I'll take windows phone or android... Oh, and now that beats audio is gone, and the HTC one m8 puts out 1.3 volts vs iPhone 5s at 1 volt, I think that HTC one m8's are the best phones for audiophiles.) sorry for my on and off topic rant lol. Now, what is the reason to buy a verza over other amps?

If you've ever listened to your headphones through a Verza you will understand. It has a better DAC chip, a better amp section, and an analog volume control. I have the E17 and doing a side-by-side with the Verza on my M-100 and it was no contest. Bass was tighter and more impactful, mids were brought forward and overall sound energy was incredible. If I could afford a Verza I would already have one.
 

I don't wish to argue with everyone here btw. Just standing my opinion. I respect all of your opinions too.

now, yes the e17 will work with any device as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure fiio is one of the most popular, if not the most, for portable low priced amps.... I think.

You can use the E17 to double amp anything, yes, but it's limiting if your source DAC is bad. The E17 works with any PC/Mac, but there are complicated workarounds for iPads, iPhones and certain Android phones. The Verza, on the other hand, works with most iDevices, a slew of Android phones, plus PC and Mac. It's a little overpriced, but so are Ferraris. You get what you pay for.

 

[Red Jacket Mike]

why would you buy the verza over an e17 Looking at specs, I saw no output difference, plus e17 has an eq. Is it the fact that it clips onto the iPhone or something? I don't own any apple products, nor will I ever. Buying v-moda headphones I understand, but buying a 500$ amp comparable to a 200$ amp? Confusion hits me. Can you explain to me what the reason is to buy that amp over any other at 500$? Is it better than the e17? I'd just like to know about it. It sure is a beautifully designed piece of equipment either way! That's a decent reason. Design. Another reason I guess is feasible is that it hooks onto your phone (I'm never buying an iPhone however. They look good, and sound decent, but the UI is too simple, you have to go through iTunes which pisses me off, and it isn't open source. I'll take windows phone or android... Oh, and now that beats audio is gone, and the HTC one m8 puts out 1.3 volts vs iPhone 5s at 1 volt, I think that HTC one m8's are the best phones for audiophiles.) sorry for my on and off topic rant lol. Now, what is the reason to buy a verza over other amps?

To be honest, I never really researched other amps; the design, along with the metallo case for the iPhone 5 with the sliding rail assembly really caught my eye.  I'm sure there are other cheaper amps out there, but, the Verza is also a DAC, which allows me to bypass not only the iPhone amp, but its internal DAC as well.  I used to own an ALO Rx amp, which also sounded great, but it required rubber bands, etc., to hold it together with the iPod I was using at the time.  
 
As far as Apple products go, I am a fan, and currently own quite a lot of them, including 5 macs (which are mostly used in my business), 2 iPads, an Apple TV, as well as the iPhone.  So, again, I guess design is a factor.  I also like the iTunes interface, and have no need or desire for anything to be 'open source.'  The Mac OS and iOS are just fine.

 

[tinyman392]

  +1!
 
well i think +1 is okay +2 is already pushing it  IMO ! (like for subway and on the go) . i listen the same about 5/16 at home on my ipod touch 4th gen 64gb, and i go from there (like you start with the home volume and see where it stands there)
 
the subways here in toronto are alright (depending on if i hop on a new one i can get through with 5 clicks) the older ones i would have to go with 6 clicks

 
2 is pushing it!  I normally don't do more than 1, and that's if there is 0 isolation (like with the case of the MEE Atlas).  I don't have subways to deal with at my campus, just a nice bus ride (if I take it). 

 

[DisCHORDDubstep]

What?  Apple's source is available to all...  Here's the source for iOS 6.1.3: http://opensource.apple.com/release/ios-613/  Developer accounts are free, but aren't required to download source code...  You just need the proper program to open up the tarball (7-zip anyone?).  Windows is not open sourced at all...  Link me to Windows 8 source code... 

Better UI is true in some sense, but it's even more simplistic than Apple's...  Better speed is false...  Windows runs under a VM, like Android, though a bit more efficient than Androids, not true native binary code (Apple does that one).  Better chipsets is also not true as well.  Apple's dual core performs as well, if not better, than most quad cores out right now (for phones).  Bigger, higher resolution screens is true.  As is the Equalizer...  Changing the screen hue reduces performance (and isn't needed if the screen has good color accuracy, iPhones are known for this, as is the S5 surprisingly...  SuperAMOLEDs are known for not having this)...  No comment on the headphones...  White pages don't correspond to throughput, which is the assumption you're making right now. 

I'm not sure where, or how, you're getting these facts... 

hmm... Yes, I'm pretty darn sure that a quad core 2.3 GHz snapdragon processor with a phone running vanilla Droid with twice the ram of an iPhone (google nexus 5) is going to be faster than a dual core 1.2 GHz processor. See the difference in clocking speed? Yes? Ok! This is effected by a few different factors of course, but the nexus 5 will run faster than the iPhone 5s. The galaxy s5 color representation runs way too cool. Its around 9000 Kelvin, when it should be around the ideal 6500. That's extremely terrible. Nokia does a much better job. Apple does a decent job, not exceeding nor falling behind in any area except resolution for display. http://developer.windowsphone.com/en-us/getstarted and here's a bunch of developer stuff. I haven't really done anything with app design, so I don't really care that much. And more simplistic than apples UI? I'd say about the same amount of simplicity, seeing as how I've used both... Have YOU used both?... The windows UI is definitely better looking, and the phone is faster feeling. You also can change contrast from vivid to natural. And, incase you didn't know, super amoled is just a gimmick by Samsung. Its just an amoled with super before it. All they did really is just put the capacitive touch screen inside of the display itself to make it a bit thinner. That's not all that impressive. Again, marketing gimmick. http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-how-Nokias-ClearBlack-AMOLED-display-technology-works_id26552 nokias clearblack amoled isn't just a gimmick. It actually serves a purpose. Retina display? Apples name for LCD. Another thing for consumers to look at and go ooh! Cool name! Plus, where have you tested clock rate on iPhones, androids and wp8's?... You have tested them using professional gear correct?

 

[tinyman392]

hmm... Yes, I'm pretty darn sure that a quad core 2.3 GHz snapdragon processor with a phone running vanilla Droid with twice the ram of an iPhone (google nexus 5) is going to be faster than a dual core 1.2 GHz processor. See the difference in clocking speed? Yes? Ok! This is effected by a few different factors of course, but the nexus 5 will run faster than the iPhone 5s. The galaxy s5 color representation runs way too cool. Its around 9000 Kelvin, when it should be around the ideal 6500. That's extremely terrible. Nokia does a much better job. Apple does a decent job, not exceeding nor falling behind in any area except resolution for display. http://developer.windowsphone.com/en-us/getstarted and here's a bunch of developer stuff. I haven't really done anything with app design, so I don't really care that much. And more simplistic than apples UI? I'd say about the same amount of simplicity, seeing as how I've used both... Have YOU used both?... The windows UI is definitely better looking, and the phone is faster feeling. You also can change contrast from vivid to natural. And, incase you didn't know, super amoled is just a gimmick by Samsung. Its just an amoled with super before it. All they did really is just put the capacitive touch screen inside of the display itself to make it a bit thinner. That's not all that impressive. Again, marketing gimmick. http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-how-Nokias-ClearBlack-AMOLED-display-technology-works_id26552 nokias clearblack amoled isn't just a gimmick. It actually serves a purpose. Retina display? Apples name for LCD. Another thing for consumers to look at and go ooh! Cool name! Plus, where have you tested clock rate on iPhones, androids and wp8's?... You have tested them using professional gear correct?

 
Oh boy...  White papers are misleading...  In so many ways...  Few points, first is that Android runs using a VM, which means each process needs to be placed in memory twice and essentially become two times as big...  That's the reason why Android phones need twice the RAM compared to a natively running iPhone...  As for clock speeds, that's misleading as well...  VMs also require twice the computation, almost 3x actually if you break down the steps at the assembler level.  Additionally, it's been shown through benchmarks (Geekbench) that the iPhone's hardware has as much (at time more), throughput in contrast to most Android counterparts...  When it comes to computers, clock speeds determines power consumption and processing power...  Throughput determines how quickly things are actually processed.  In essence, we should compare throughput, not clock speed.  Yes, the Android counterparts have more powerful hardware, that's half the story, you also need the efficient software, something that Android doesn't have...  Yet.
 
Notes, you can only compare clock speeds if the processor architecture is the same...  So have fun comparing ARM64 to ARM32 (64 is also more efficient at the register level having twice the registers that are twice as large, iPhone is currently ARM64).
 
I have used Windows Phone devices (demoed) as well as Android, and Apple, and Palm (which I like the best).  Windows is a lot more simplistic in nature, it's less cluttered and more uniform.  THIS IS A COMPLIMENT TO WINDOWS PHONE
 
Retina display is not a name for LCD, it's a name given to something that exceeds 320 PPI, it doesn't have to be LCD.
 
I'm done with the OT chat.  If you want to reply, do it through PM, cause I'm not going to reply...  You're mistaken on so many things fundamental to the entire idea of computer science and hardware in general.  Efficiency, which is something that isn't in the numbers, and architecture design (again, not in the numbers) play crucial rolls.  Hardware-software acceleration play another crucial roll...  These three reasons are the reason why the iPhone's hardware can keep up with the power-consuming giants in a David vs Goliath type match. 

 

[DisCHORDDubstep]

Oh boy...  White papers are misleading...  In so many ways...  Few points, first is that Android runs using a VM, which means each process needs to be placed in memory twice and essentially become two times as big...  That's the reason why Android phones need twice the RAM compared to a natively running iPhone...  As for clock speeds, that's misleading as well...  VMs also require twice the computation, almost 3x actually if you break down the steps at the assembler level.  Additionally, it's been shown through benchmarks (Geekbench) that the iPhone's hardware has as much (at time more), throughput in contrast to most Android counterparts...  When it comes to computers, clock speeds determines power consumption and processing power...  Throughput determines how quickly things are actually processed.  In essence, we should compare throughput, not clock speed.  Yes, the Android counterparts have more powerful hardware, that's half the story, you also need the efficient software, something that Android doesn't have...  Yet.

Notes, you can only compare clock speeds if the processor architecture is the same...  So have fun comparing ARM64 to ARM32 (64 is also more efficient at the register level having twice the registers that are twice as large).

I have used Windows Phone devices (demoed) as well as Android, and Apple, and Palm (which I like the best).  Windows is a lot more simplistic in nature, it's less cluttered and more uniform.  THIS IS A COMPLIMENT TO WINDOWS PHONE

Retina display is not a name for LCD, it's a name given to something that exceeds 320 PPI, it doesn't have to be LCD.

I'm done with the OT chat.  If you want to reply, do it through PM, cause I'm not going to reply...  You're mistaken on so many things fundamental to the entire idea of computer science and hardware in general.  Efficiency, which is something that isn't in the numbers, and architecture design (again, not in the numbers) play crucial rolls.  Hardware-software acceleration play another crucial roll...  These three reasons are the reason why the iPhone's hardware can keep up with the power-consuming giants in a David vs Goliath type match. 

ok... Although you only managed to at least argue against two of the many points I had down, and still didn't manage to prove anything about iPhone being faster through factual evidence. I'm going to stop talking about this before mods come in.

 

[tinyman392]

ok... Although you only managed to at least argue against two of the many points I had down, and still didn't manage to prove anything about iPhone being faster through factual evidence. I'm going to stop talking about this before mods come in.

 
I didn't say faster, I said same speed or faster (>=)...  With actual evidence...  No VM in the OS to run NATIVE code increases throughput 3-fold...  Twice the registers decreases overhead at least 2-fold (most likely more).  M5 processor taking load off of the main processor (similar to what Motorola does with the Moto X) increases throughput (the M5 acts as an additional, low-powered core).  Hardware-software acceleration... 
 
Here's the analogy...  Apple does more (efficiency) with less (hardware), Google does less (efficiency) with more (hardware).  It balances out in the end, and in many ways, the 64-bit system pushes it over the edge because of 2x the register count (this is memory that is faster than cache).  This is factual evidence.  This is why current generation iPhones have as much throughput (and at times more) as current generation Androids (in benchmarks).  On paper, it looks like Android Devices should be the clear winner, but taking a look at the actual architecture, and software, you'll find out why it balances out.

 

[AnakChan]

Guys....off-topic??

 

[Tom22]

   
I actually do know where he's coming from...  Apple's use of the Cirrus DAC is what is causing it IMO, they tend to be slightly colder in contrast to others I've listened to (iPod Touch 1G, Macbook Pro, etc.).  The S3 should have more than enough power to drive these for sure. 
 
The Vamp does help out the XS quite a bit though IMO.  It does give it a warmer sound with slightly better detailing in the treble. 

would you recommend any amp that will help with the treble extension? and soundstage
 
everything on the xs i would basically leave  alone maybe a bit more oomph at the subbass but thats as important as the above two?
 
treble sparkle and extension is usually the issue for some of my gear!
 
preferably under 150? =) or even 100$ haha doubt it though haha i'm still on my first amp (fiioe6) but on my new ipod touch i rarely use it anymore (not convenient)

 

[329161]

hmm. Your problem isn't the headphones loudness. Its the crappy onboard amp included on s3's. That's pushing 0.3 volts. Compare that to my Lumia 925 that puts out 0.6 volts, or an HTC one m8 that puts out 1.3 volts. Your galaxy s3 just isn't powerful enough for anything other than ear buds to get loud. It really doesn't need amping at all if you are using something other than samsung's. Samsung has never really been great in the audio department. Nokia is average to above average, depending on model, apple is great being at 1 volt, and the new HTC one m8 is a powerhouse at 1.3 volts. Good thing you said your source.

I never had a problem with loudness using any other hp with my S3. But I usually try to listen through external dac/amps anyway.

 

[tinyman392]

  would you recommend any amp that will help with the treble extension? and soundstage
 
everything on the xs i would basically leave  alone maybe a bit more oomph at the subbass but thats as important as the above two?
 
treble sparkle and extension is usually the issue for some of my gear!
 
preferably under 150? =) or even 100$ haha doubt it though haha i'm still on my first amp (fiioe6) but on my new ipod touch i rarely use it anymore (not convenient)

 
Unfortunately, I don't own too many amps :/  Only own 3 to be exact: Rhapsodio K2, MIU MRC (DIY amplifier), and the V-Moda Vamp.  Compared to the iDevices, they tend to be warmer :/  The Vamp does help the mid-mid to upper-mids a bit as well as a little more definition and shape to the treble, but it also does give a bass boost.  I haven't tested the Rhapsodio with the XS yet, or the MRC.  I'll do that tonight when I have the time. Personally, I don't recommend the MRC (it has some gain issues :/). 
 
The Rhapsodio, although it does help the highs a bit, and mids, also takes a bit away from the lushness in the midrange that I loved so much, kind of made them drier and colder, that's me though.  The bass is a little more balanced though, but loses out with sub-bass :/  Also add the fact that I can't find any link for a K2 that's for sale rules this one out :/  I wish I could help you out more... 

 

[329161]

   
I actually do know where he's coming from...  Apple's use of the Cirrus DAC is what is causing it IMO, they tend to be slightly colder in contrast to others I've listened to (iPod Touch 1G, Macbook Pro, etc.).  The S3 should have more than enough power to drive these for sure. 
 
The Vamp does help out the XS quite a bit though IMO.  It does give it a warmer sound with slightly better detailing in the treble. 

Actually the Touch 64gb generally pairs quite well with my other hp's (especially the AT M40x, which I think is a better sounding hp overall than the XS). It's just with the XS the treble becomes quite fatiguing at nominal volume levels. As I said, when I pair it with external dac/amping the XS really shines. The flatness of the sound opens up and becomes more dynamic, and the bass punches with more definition. That's my impression anyway.

 

[tinyman392]

Actually the Touch 64gb generally pairs quite well with my other hp's (especially the AT M40x, which I think is a better sounding hp overall than the XS). It's just with the XS the treble becomes quite fatiguing at nominal volume levels. As I said, when I pair it with external dac/amping the XS really shines. The flatness of the sound opens up and becomes more dynamic, and the bass punches with more definition. That's my impression anyway.

I never said anything about not pairing well. My statement was that it was a colder DAC/AMP compared to other sources. Lol.

 

[329161]

I never said anything about not pairing well. My statement was that it was a colder DAC/AMP compared to other sources. Lol.

You're right about it being "colder" sounding (to me, this kind of sound is what I call neutral, and detailed), but when it drives the XS's the treble becomes overly fatiguing, and the bass is a bit anemic. My other hp's don't have this problem with the Touch.
Anyways, my point is, the XS sounds much better to me through external dac's/amps. If any V-Moda fanboys disagree, then that's fine. It's just my impression/opinion as I've maintained all along.
I get the impression V-moda fans get a bit antsy when there's any criticism of the brand or it's products (not referring to you).

 

[JML]

I've found the XS to be better-sounding and far more comfortable than the M-80.  Cleaner and flatter bass, with cleaner and crisper highs; and the comfort is outstanding (I could not wear the M-80 or the Audio Technica ATH-ESW9 for long before experiencing pain - I do wear glasses).  The bass on the XS is better-controlled than on the ESW9, too.
 
I do miss the M-80's red accent colors, though.  I have the black version of the XS.  I'd love to see other shields on the XS, especially the silver and orange versions.  So please post pictures if you have them!