[clairyvic]

Why? Which has better soundstage/bass/ mids/highs/is less harsh/more detailed.

 

[miceblue]

The new Mid-Fi bracket of $200 - $400 closed portable headphones. My signature already has all the newest contenders in one place. Personally, I have to say, I'm enjoying the UE 6000's more than I enjoyed my V-MODA M-100's...

Perhaps due to less edgy treble and laid-back lower-mids, while still having a similar quality of bass? From my experience with the UE6000, the midrange is more forward as well.

(M-100 is the faded curve, passive noise isolation curves for the UE6000)






Not to mention offering more noise isolation, and much higher comfort levels.

Ah, there it is:

...
While on the topic of other headphones though I got a chance to compare the M-100 to the UE6000 at a local Apple Store today (these observations are with the unmodded M-100 since I preferred the unmodded version for louder environments).

• To me there seemed to be more mid-bass on the M-100 which bled a bit into the lower midrange. Compared to the (passive mode) UE6000, the UE6000 has a more forward midrange with better instrument separation, and the lower mids were much more audible at roughly the same listening level as the M-100. This was really evident to me on some tracks. Maybe it's the laid back presentation of the M-100's mids. [this is somewhat observed in the frequency response curves above; the whole bass range, and especially the 50-200 Hz range, is less emphasised in the UE6000 which may give the impression of having "more" lower-mids in comparison to the M-100]
• The tibre of the upper mids for the M-100 were much better though, especially with female voices [this is somewhat observed in the frequency response curves as well since the M-100 has more energy with the upper-midrange, particularly in the 1.3-4 KHz range]
• The highs were more realistic-sounding to my ears with the M-100 [the M-100 has a larger treble spike at 10 KHz, which may give the M-100 its sparkle]
• The soundstage of the M-100 was definitely a lot wider and deeper than the UE6000 (like an HD800 vs LCD-2 difference). I'm not sure if this kind of large soundstage is completely natural though, as I found the super wide soundstage of the HD800 a bit unrealistic-sounding to me.
  ...

• 
  
  
  But again, I'm not an expert at reading graphs, so my observations may be incorrect.

 

[Craigster75]

Why? Which has better soundstage/bass/ mids/highs/is less harsh/more detailed.

They are both very good headphones. The UE6000 has "bigger" bass; the M-100 has superior high end extension with better overall detail and superior soundstage. I think they are comparable in the midrange, but I prefer the overall sound of the M-100 as I feel like something is missing on the high end of the UE6000.

 

[aleki]

Quote:

What sort of headphones would compete with these?

Personally, I would bunch these with the Audio Technica M-50's, and Beats Pro. I actually hold the M-80's in higher regard, for having a more leveled, smooth sound signature. I was particularly dissapointed by the sound-stage claim(it sounds very processed/synthetic). I hate to say it (especially after the amount of time I invested keeping up with this thread), but I feel they miss the mark of a $300 sounding can. I'd consider them more of a low to mid-fi pair, rather than a solid midgrade segway; like the HD598's. More style than sound, I feel..
 
That said, I'm sure they'll still leave plenty of people with smiles; I'm just gripey about them bungling the midrange

 

[miceblue]

Personally, I would bunch these with the Audio Technica M-50's, and Beats Pro. I actually hold the M-80's in higher regard, for having a more leveled, smooth sound signature. I was particularly dissapointed by the sound-stage claim(it sounds very processed/synthetic). I hate to say it (especially after the amount of time I invested keeping up with this thread), but I feel they miss the mark of a $300 sounding can. I'd consider them more of a low to mid-fi pair, rather than a solid midgrade segway; like the HD598's. More style than sound, I feel..

That said, I'm sure they'll still leave plenty of people with smiles; I'm just gripey about them bungling the midrange

At least you're honest with your thoughts/impressions. Sometimes I have to wonder if the hype in this thread makes opinions of the M-100 somewhat biased. I already wrote my review and gave my honest opinions/feedback of the M-100. It's not a true "audiophile"-grade 'can per se, but I think it's a good consumer-audiophile 'can. For my purposes (mostly mobile listening), the M-100 does very well for those criteria, but I can see why the M-100 would disappoint, as I mentioned in my review.

Does the M-100 live up to its hype? In my honest opinion, going from what Head-Fiers usually want from a super-hyped headphone, no. It doesn't seem to have the same sound signature of the M-80 from my experience and is more of a consumer-audiophile headphone as opposed to the M-80's more audiophile-consumer sound. Some people on Head-Fi looking for an upgrade from the M-80 might find themselves a bit disappointed with the large increase in bass, more "sibilant" treble, and still laid back midrange. Resulting from this is a very "iffy" headphone when it comes to different music genres. Electronic music excels with this kind of sound signature, but many do not benefit from this type of signature.

 

[Curly21029]

Quote:

They are both very good headphones. The UE6000 has "bigger" bass; the M-100 has superior high end extension with better overall detail and superior soundstage. I think they are comparable in the midrange, but I prefer the overall sound of the M-100 as I feel like something is missing on the high end of the UE6000.

 
Just to make the distinction, this comparison is made within the context of the UE6000 operating passively, yes?

 

[Curly21029]

Quote:

I'm just gripey about them bungling the midrange

 
I wouldn't say that V-MODA "bungled" the midrange.  Given the gestation period and "modiophile" (the way I've interpreted the term, anyway) target market, I'm of the belief that the frequency response is completely intentional.  The M-100 didn't work for me either, but it's clear that it has received more 'yays' than 'nays' on the whole and is likely to continue doing so as production increases.
 
EDIT: Apoligies for the double post.  I intended to edit the one above. (where's my coffee...)

 

[jonnio]

Quote:

Personally, I would bunch these with the Audio Technica M-50's, and Beats Pro. I actually hold the M-80's in higher regard, for having a more leveled, smooth sound signature. I was particularly dissapointed by the sound-stage claim(it sounds very processed/synthetic). I hate to say it (especially after the amount of time I invested keeping up with this thread), but I feel they miss the mark of a $300 sounding can. I'd consider them more of a low to mid-fi pair, rather than a solid midgrade segway; like the HD598's. More style than sound, I feel..
 
That said, I'm sure they'll still leave plenty of people with smiles; I'm just gripey about them bungling the midrange

It's good to see different people's thoughts on here, but I wonder if your comparison to the 598s is exactly why you don't like them.  The M-100s aren't designed for (what I am guessing is) your use case of a reference headphone for home use.  A pair of 598s is almost worthless to me, but that doesn't mean they missed the mark either, they are just both shooting for different marks.
 
The general consensus though seems to be that in order to find another closed back portable can with this sound quality you have to go up in price, so I think the price point is fair.  Especially if you do a direct comparison between the M-100 and the Beats Pro that you lumped them in with.

 

[Craigster75]

Just to make the distinction, this comparison is made within the context of the UE6000 operating passively, yes?

Yes, apples to apples.

 

[aleki]

WellQuote:

It's good to see different people's thoughts on here, but I wonder if your comparison to the 598s is exactly why you don't like them.  The M-100s aren't designed for (what I am guessing is) your use case of a reference headphone for home use.  A pair of 598s is almost worthless to me, but that doesn't mean they missed the mark either, they are just both shooting for different marks.
 
The general consensus though seems to be that in order to find another closed back portable can with this sound quality you have to go up in price, so I think the price point is fair.  Especially if you do a direct comparison between the M-100 and the Beats Pro that you lumped them in with.

In regards to the HD598's, I'm aware that I was comparing apples and oranges here; but as I mentioned before, personally, I find the M-80 superior to the M-100's(specially when you consider their value at ~$150 less than the M-100). Following this thread, I was under the impression that the M-100 would be a substantial upgrade to the M-80; naturally, I was expecting the same sound, but refined(more or less). Instead, I find they sound closer to a modified LP(which, as I mentioned previously, dont sound half bad with proper damping work; particularly for the $75 bucks they fetched a few days ago). About the Sound-Stage claim on the box; I actually found that an unmodified LP has a bit more air to the sound, than the 100's (although I must re-iterate that the bass and midrange bleed is unbearable in that state).
 
Now, what gets me is, when I was making comments on the Beats Pro not being a bad buy at $160, I had many people on my tail, more or less calling me nuts in regards to sound. Mind you, this is going out from memory(as I have sold the BP's long ago), but like the M-100's(and quoting Steve Guttenberg), the BP's had very wooly bass. The midrange of the BP's were a little odd, as some vocals had a tendancy to sound contorted(likely tuned that way to avoid piercing treble); never the less, the overall sound of the headphones left me with the impression that this is what a smoothed out M-50 would sound like. It really wouldnt surprise me if the M-100's would have endured more flack in our community, had they been branded by Monster or Beats.
 
Comparing the M-50's to the M-100's and regarding their SQ, I feel they trade blows; the M-50's sounding more balanced, where the M-100's have strangely conditioned bass(tons of slam, but very dry sounding; however, more control), and smoother/less gritty treble. For the price-portability, I dont see it as bad value, but I'd readily pick the M-80's, or DT1350 before taking another look at the M-100's. My main complaint about their credit to portability for me is their rather poor low-mid frequency isolation. In the end, I still find myself raising the volume in noisy environments, like coffee shops, train stations, and even planes. Comparatively, I find its isolation to be roughly on par with a well seated M-80.
 
In closing, I felt the comparison between the M-100 and HD598 was just, to point out where they stand in respect to fidelity. I cant give it points for their ability to reproduce a naturally sounding tone, I cant give them points for having authentic definition/timbre between instruments, and I definitely cant give them any points for sound stage or imaging. However, what I feel we're left with is a damn good sounding genre specific headphone. If you're looking for energy and thump for mindless listening sessions, then these will do you well; synthetically mastered headphones, for today's digitally synthesized recordings.

 

[Curly21029]

Quote:

Yes, apples to apples.

 
Thanks for the clarification.  I ask because it seems some prefer the UE6000 with the noise canceling engaged while others (most?) have touted its performance when passive.

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

In regards to the HD598's, I'm aware that I was comparing apples and oranges here; but as I mentioned before, personally, I find the M-80 superior to the M-100's(specially when you consider their value at ~$150 less than the M-100). Following this thread, I was under the impression that the M-100 would be a substantial upgrade to the M-80; naturally, I was expecting the same sound, but refined(more or less). Instead, I find they sound closer to a modified LP(which, as I mentioned previously, dont sound half bad with proper damping work; particularly for the $75 bucks they fetched a few days ago). About the Sound-Stage claim on the box; I actually found that an unmodified LP has a bit more air to the sound, than the 100's (although I must re-iterate that the bass and midrange bleed is unbearable in that state).
 
Now, what gets me is, when I was making comments on the Beats Pro not being a bad buy at $160, I had many people on my tail, more or less calling me nuts in regards to sound. Mind you, this is going out from memory(as I have sold the BP's long ago), but like the M-100's(and quoting Steve Guttenberg), the BP's had very wooly bass. The midrange of the BP's were a little odd, as some vocals had a tendancy to sound contorted(likely tuned that way to avoid piercing treble); never the less, the overall sound of the headphones left me with the impression that this is what a smoothed out M-50 would sound like. It really wouldnt surprise me if the M-100's would have endured more flack in our community, had they been branded by Monster or Beats.
 
Comparing the M-50's to the M-100's and regarding their SQ, I feel they trade blows; the M-50's sounding more balanced, where the M-100's have strangely conditioned bass(tons of slam, but very dry sounding; however, more control), and smoother/less gritty treble. For the price-portability, I dont see it as bad value, but I'd readily pick the M-80's, or DT1350 before taking another look at the M-100's. My main complaint about their credit to portability for me is their rather poor low-mid frequency isolation. In the end, I still find myself raising the volume in noisy environments, like coffee shops, train stations, and even planes. Comparatively, I find its isolation to be roughly on par with a well seated M-80.
 
In closing, I felt the comparison between the M-100 and HD598 was just, to point out where they stand in respect to fidelity. I cant give it points for their ability to reproduce a naturally sounding tone, I cant give them points for having authentic definition/timbre between instruments, and I definitely cant give them any points for sound stage or imaging. However, what I feel we're left with is a damn good sounding genre specific headphone. If you're looking for energy and thump for mindless listening sessions, then these will do you well; synthetically mastered headphones, for today's digitally synthesized recordings.

 
VERY excellent observations and I agree with the underlined/italicised points.

1. I too was honestly expecting a more refined M-80, and upon posting in this thread for the first time, I was receiving comments left and right that it would be a refined M-80. My disappointment with that was somewhat absorbed by its portability factor on the other hand and is the only reason why I would recommend the M-100.
2. The "colossal soundstage" claim is also misleading, as I've said numerous times in this thread as well as both my video and written reviews.
3. I too also agree that the Beats Pro isn't that bad of a headphone, if the price were $200 or below. The LP/LP2 isn't highly regarded in Head-Fi but people have more respect for it than any of the Beats headphones, most likely due to the V-MODA branding as opposed to Beats by Dre or Monster. I've tried the LP and didn't think highly of it; for the MSRP of $200 I think it's a ridiculous price tag. As I've said before, the M-100 seems to be a consumer-audiophile headphone as opposed to audiophile-consumer, putting consumer-oriented sound first before "audiophile" sound, which seems to be the opposite of the M-80.
4. And like I mentioned in my isolation sound test with cheap desktop speakers, the midrange isolation of the M-100 isn't that great:

Quote:

Modded
The mids/vocals are somewhat blocked out (I can still hear the singer's lyrics and the background "ooo waaai eee ooh")
 
Unmodded
The mids/vocals, just like the highs are a tad bit louder to me (the lyrics are more distinguishable）

 

[DarthUnnamed]

I don't even know what to get anymore, these or the he-400's. 2 Completely different headphones, for different uses, with different sound signatures. I'll probably get both eventually, but i need to know what to get first. The he-400's excel with pretty much any genre, but due to the fact that i haven't seen a single deal on it (hifiman doesn't like people selling their products for cheaper than the original price) while the v moda's are a bit cheaper, and i can use them both at home and on the go make them pretty appealing. He-400's obviously sound better, but aren't portable at all, and the Fiio e17 doesn't work with the Galaxy s3 (i plan on getting the e17, already have a GS3) makes it pretty much impossible to use in a portable fashion. But i have until sunday to decide, since that's when the whole Faders + Custom shields + free shipping thing ends with the v-moda's

 

[fuzzyash]

I don't even know what to get anymore, these or the he-400's. 2 Completely different headphones, for different uses, with different sound signatures. I'll probably get both eventually, but i need to know what to get first. The he-400's excel with pretty much any genre, but due to the fact that i haven't seen a single deal on it (hifiman doesn't like people selling their products for cheaper than the original price) while the v moda's are a bit cheaper, and i can use them both at home and on the go make them pretty appealing. He-400's obviously sound better, but aren't portable at all, and the Fiio e17 doesn't work with the Galaxy s3 (i plan on getting the e17, already have a GS3) makes it pretty much impossible to use in a portable fashion. But i have until sunday to decide, since that's when the whole Faders + Custom shields + free shipping thing ends with the v-moda's

i believe you also need a powerful amp for the he-400

 

[DarthUnnamed]

Quote:

i believe you also need a powerful amp for the he-400

Not really, they aren't too hard to drive. Of course, having an o2/odac would serve me better but the e17 pairs well with the he-400