[elvergun]

   

 

 
 

 

 

   
But seriously. I don't claim that it DOESN'T exist, just not to the degree that yourself or any others claim it to. And considering that you believe that you have experienced burn-in means that you do believe it does exist. Which means it would be that much harder to convince you since you'll always go back to "Well that headphone wasn't  the PX100." Thus always solidifying the claim in your head. In fact I could probably go through the list of headphones that I tested DBX for burn in and get the same reaction.

 
I think we are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.  Gotta love the internet.
 
I think our viewpoints are not that far apart.   I'm not 100% convinced that burn in is real...even after my little PX100 experiment.  On the  other hand, my little experiment leads me to believe that things are not as clear as some would claim.  Even Tyll's measurements show that things are not as clear as a certain fellow would like us to believe.
 
But think about this.  In my PX100 post I mentioned that I heard a difference and suddenly I'm bombarded with "bias" and "expectation"...and I'm told that I'm imagining things and that there is no way in hell the two headphones could have sounded different.   I'm told that what I'm hearing is wrong...because someone else has not heard any burn in changes...and they are right.   I'm wrong because they are right.  Okey-dokey.
 
The truth is that nobody is really sure, not even Tyll.  

 

[ratinox]

SomeGuyDude,

I'm seeing a lack of definitive statements that burn-in will noticeably improve sound quality. JLAB couches their statement with "most audiophiles agree". V-MODA says, paraphrased, "let them grow on you". Audeze is doing stress testing like Dell does for the same reason: reducing warranty returns on manufacturing flaws and defects. Good for them. A-T is either contradicting themselves or being almost honest that headphones can deteriorate with age and that the sound will change as a result.

What I'm looking for here is a definitive assertion that, "your new ${BRAND} headphones will sound better after ${HOURS} of burn-in," or something like it. The closest I've seen is Miceblue's message from Ultrasone and that one is doused in marketing hyperbole.

 

[elvergun]

Okay, one, and it's phrased with the weasel word "should" rather than the definitive "will". Can you show me a printed manual from a reputable manufacturer of headphones that states headphone burn-in will improve sound and performance?

Then again, MartinLogan has made one headphone and one earphone in the company's existence. Shure currently has 7 earphones and 9 headphones in active production. I can't speak for anyone else about this but I'm going to run with the idea that Shure's engineers have more experience designing headphones than MartinLogan's.

 
Man, you just want to be right no matter what, huh?  If I dig out some other manual you are just going to come up with some BS to shoot it down.   I'm sure you know much more about audio reproduction than Martin Logan.  I'll be the first person in line when your new line of headphones comes out.  Be sure not to print anything about burn-in in the manual. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

@SomeGuyDude,

I'm seeing a lack of definitive statements that burn-in will noticeably improve sound quality. JLAB couches their statement with "most audiophiles agree". V-MODA says, paraphrased, "let them grow on you". Audeze is doing stress testing like Dell does for the same reason: reducing warranty returns on manufacturing flaws and defects. Good for them. A-T is either contradicting themselves or being almost honest that headphones can deteriorate with age and that the sound will change as a result.

What I'm looking for here is a definitive assertion that, "your new ${BRAND} headphones will sound better after ${HOURS} of burn-in," or something like it. The closest I've seen is Miceblue's message from Ultrasone and that one is doused in marketing hyperbole.

 
So pretty much no matter what I post you'll say it's not enough.
 
Gotcha.
 
Moving on.
 
The M100s + Verza are godly. I have my Metallo case coming on Tuesday. 

 

[tinyman392]

Please explain how "give them a week or two to grow on you" is at all suggestive of a change in the headphones?

 
Good point, you're pointing to psycho-acoustic effects. 
 
That's still rather beyond the point. 1.5 dB is audible if wide enough XD  And in the case of the M-100, can smoothen out the sound of the M-100 and make is quite bassy...  Actually, with that 1.5 dB boost, the M-100 begins to sound a lot like how a lot of early adopters described it as a bass-head phone.  Without it, that midrange aggression makes it not as bassy IMO. 
 
Sometimes the smallest thing makes the biggest difference.  While playing with the M-100 EQs, I noticed just how much a small change can make in the M-100s, which helps put into perspective just how crucial tuning of a pair of headphones is, to get that tuning just right.  So Kudos for Val and the team for taking the time to get this one right, making sure the tuning was perfect (within degree) before releasing them.  Just think, a couple dB attenuation in the midrange and detail retrieval could be lost instantly. 

 

[howdy]

The M100s + Verza are godly. I have my Metallo case coming on Tuesday. 
[/quote]

That's awesome, I want to get one of those setups as well. That Vamp Verza is one of the best amps I heard.

 

[tinyman392]

   
So pretty much no matter what I post you'll say it's not enough.
 
Gotcha.
 
Moving on.
 
The M100s + Verza are godly. I have my Metallo case coming on Tuesday. 

The M-100 + Verza is a really good combination (you could've guessed that though).  Quick word about the Metallo case...  If you're using an iPhone, expect a drop in reception...  I remember walking indoors to a Walgreens (waiting on meds) and having my signal drop entirely.  The second I took off the case, I got my signal back...  Metal surrounding cellphones is not the best idea...  I think they call it a Faraday Cage  

 

[howdy]

That's an iPhone issue though is it not? I remember that apple had to issue everyone cases because if you held it a certain way it would drop calls. Is this the reason why.

 

[BB 808]

When I got the M-100, I took it out if the box and put it on my head and it sounded great right away. I do NOT believe in "burn in" or "break in" because if you do, then what about "burn out" or "break down" of these things? Am I supposed to believe that the drivers will get better over time with "burn in" and just continue getting better with more usage and then stop changing once it reaches the optimum sound? Why doesn't too much "burn in" cause "burn out" and deteriorate the drivers?

I hope that doesn't happen because I love my M-100 as is.

 

[kyuuketsuki]

That's an iPhone issue though is it not? I remember that apple had to issue everyone cases because if you held it a certain way it would drop calls. Is this the reason why.

 
Faraday cage can affect every phone on the planet. The Apple issue had to do with bridging the antennae.
 
There is a reason why most cellphone cases are not made of metal.

 

[howdy]

Faraday cage can affect every phone on the planet. The Apple issue had to do with bridging the antennae.

There is a reason why most cellphone cases are not made of metal.

I suppose, yeah that makes sense.

 

[ratinox]

So pretty much no matter what I post you'll say it's not enough.

Quite the contrary. I want you to prove that I'm wrong, that I'm mistaken, that burn-in exists and has an appreciable effect. If I'm wrong then I want to know it, and I want to know it sooner rather than later. You're going to need more than weasel words to do that, something that I can't shoot down.

 

[elvergun]

Quite the contrary. I want you to prove that I'm wrong, that I'm mistaken, that burn-in exists and has an appreciable effect. If I'm wrong then I want to know it, and I want to know it sooner rather than later. You're going to need more than weasel words to do that, something that I can't shoot down.

I will never be able to prove you are wrong...just like you will never be able to prove that burn in does not exist. 
 
Weasel words?  LOL   That is the first time I've heard that one.  Nice. 
 
And I thought I would learn nothing from your posts. 

 

[howdy]

[ http://matrix-hifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm

You can read all of this Ratinox and take it as you want. It is interesting.

 

[ratinox]

[ http://matrix-hifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm

You can read all of this Ratinox and take it as you want. It is interesting.

Definitely. Thank you.