USB-C Sucks. 3.5mm Is Real Sound!!!
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Sep 8, 2021 at 8:37 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 320

MelodyMood

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If space is the real concern as to why Smart Phones are removing the 3.5 mm headphone jack, why did the mini headphone jack disappear on phones?
Why not bring back the mini?

You've gotten tricked into thinking that space was the reason why the 3.5mm headphone jack was removed, it WASN'T the reason why… the reason is far more plain and simple: it's because of GREED and MONEY.
Look at this phone, this is the Vivo X5 Max… one of the thinnest phones ever made and it still has a headphone jack + it has a micro SD card slot! and guess what? It was made in 2014! Wow! Here's what it looks like:
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So the claim, “there isn't enough space for a headphone jack", is immediately debunked.
What about a phone with slim bezels? Could it also have a headphone jack and a big battery? Yes it can, here is the LG Velvet which is a more modern phone:
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It has very slim bezels as you can see, with curved edges, a 4300 mAh battery, an under the display fingerprint scanner, multiple rear cameras, and it still has a 3.5mm headphone jack AND it's water-resistant… so what happened to “there wasn't enough space"? There's very slim bezels and a fairly big 4300 mAh battery, it's highly water-proof, and yet there's still space for a headphone jack and a micro SD slot. The LG Velvet has an IP68 water-resistant rating, water-resistant up to 5 feet for up to 30 minutes.
Regarding the iPhone 7, Apple has claimed there was no space for a headphone jack because they added a feedback motor for the new home button… well that was debunked, a guy on YouTube from a channel called “Parts Unknown" drilled a hole in his iPhone 7, then used parts from China and did software tweaking which took him several months and he managed to get a headphone jack working on an iPhone 7!
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You can watch the video on YouTube, just search for it.
The claim, “removing the headphone jack improves water resistance!” Not really, the headphone jack is the easiest part to make water resistant.. it's merely just gold or metal contact points inside and the rest of the hole is covered up. The SIM tray would be more of a worry than the headphone jack, as well as the charging port and speaker grill. You can make the phone very water-resistant and still keep the headphone jack, if you could make the charging port water-proof, then you can do the same to the headphone jack. The current flagship phones right now with headphone jacks are also highly water-resistant (like the LG Velvet I showed you earlier). Plus, if you look at the water-resistant Galaxy S5, the 3.5mm headphone jack was NOT covered up at all, but the charging port needed to be covered up with a cover! So that should already debunk the claim that the headphone jack makes it less water-resistant, the charging port is more risky.
Here's the Galaxy S5 from 2014, it was water-resistant and it also has a removable back battery door and a headphone jack:
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Must I remind you that the Galaxy S5 was made in 2014, and there have been technological advancements in water-resistant technology and it has gotten better (there is no longer a need for a cover for the charging port). Even if the claim were true, removing the headphone jack just to make the phone able to survive underwater for longer isn't a good trade-off, why the heck would I want to leave my smartphone underwater for 30 minutes, other than to prove the point that it can do that? Plus you need to know that when it says “water-resistant”, it does not mean ocean salt water proof or chlorine pool water proof, those who take their iPhone into the ocean may soon find out that the salt destroys the rubber seals and water leaks in. Plus, the manufacturer warranty does not cover water damage regardless if the phone is water-resistant, so if water did leak in, you will not be able to get it replaced or fixed for free. The touchscreen doesn't even work when the screen is wet anyways, so I'm not sure why people care a lot about water resistance, it's only meant for accidental splashes or drops in fresh water.
In regards to the claim, “Not many people use the headphone jack anymore!” Well that's because they were FORCED to use Bluetooth, that's why many don't use it anymore, they don't even have a choice... otherwise, before that, *at least HALF of users were using the headphone jack* which is A LOT of users. And also, just because someone doesn't use a feature means it should be removed… I don't really use Bluetooth, should Bluetooth be removed? We pay $800-$1000 for a high end smartphone, so we'd expect all of the “pro” features like the headphone jack… a headphone jack literally costs a few pennies to make, it's not expensive. True industry professionals still use the headphone jack, that's why it's not going away anytime soon.
This is a YouGov poll done in September, 2016
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Few smartphone users interested in phones without headphone jacks | YouGov
Of course if you do a survey about this today, most people will give a different answer because they were already forced to move on to Bluetooth as many phones today no longer have headphone jacks. So it's a more accurate and less biased survey when the question was asked in 2016, and it showed that a lot of people wanted the headphone jack.
If there are any other excuses for why the headphone jack was removed, I can easily debunk it. The real reason is simple, greedy manufacturers removed the 3.5mm headphone jack so they could sell more of their own Bluetooth headphones… and since Bluetooth headphones are disposable products (the battery will eventually stop holding a charge within a few years), they have to be regularly replaced, and I mean the entire headphones itself because you can't replace the battery on AirPods or other Bluetooth headphones as it will completely destroy it due to the way manufacturers glue everything down so tightly, removing the battery will destroy the headphones.
Apple has convinced many people to think that the 3.5mm headphone jack is old technology and Bluetooth is new.. well guess what? The very 1st iPhone 1 had Bluetooth on it! And Bluetooth was already available on cellphones, way before smartphones were invented… so basically, everybody got fooled and think Bluetooth is somehow a new technology when it isn't.
The funny thing is laptops still have the 3.5mm headphone jack, including the latest MacBook Pro laptops. This is because wired headphones are widely used by professionals, people like audio engineers, musicians, video editors, radio show hosts, journalists, artists, etc. and they depend very heavily on the 3.5mm headphone jack as it's very important for their profession and it's far more reliable and has very low maintenance (plus, professional sound engineers and musicians need to listen to lossless audio, Bluetooth cannot play HiFi lossless audio due to the limitation of Bluetooth technology and only wired headphones can). Apple still includes the headphone jack on their MacBooks because they will lose money if they didn't have it, these professionals will end up buying a different laptop if Apple didn't put a headphone jack in it.
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So it all goes back to my point: it's all about money and profit. Apple gains much more profit by removing the headphone jack from the iPhone because they will make billions in AirPods Bluetooth headphones.. and the few customers that they lose from removing the headphone jack will not hurt them as they will make more money than lose money from these customers that leave (charging $250 for the AirPods Pro and $550 for AirPods Max, you can see how easily profitable it is and they will make way more money than lose money from customers that leave Apple).

Apple still has the headphone jack on their MacBooks because of the same reason: money and profit… if Apple lose professional MacBook customers, it will hurt their bottom line a lot. So this is Apple's motto: “If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense (cents)”. Money and greed is the real reason and we need to stop kidding ourselves and fall for these marketing schemes by these mega corporations like Apple, it's brainwashing really.. especially with these so-called YouTube tech reviewers who are too afraid to criticize Apple for fear they might lose early access to early review units, and for fear they might get less views and clicks on their videos, so they always praise every single decision Apple makes and convince the viewers it was the right decision.

There are still some Android phones that have the headphone jack, only a small few flagship phones and mostly all mid-range and budget phones still have the headphone jack, so look up and check the hardware specs of the phone online before buying to know what features it has (I suggest the GSMArena.com website).
Samsung is now greedy, they removed the headphone jack on their flagship Galaxy S20, and then they also removed the micro SD card slot on the Galaxy S21! People need to speak up and call out these manufacturers, otherwise, they will continue to remove features and charge you more money if you want extras (basically try to upsell), use your voice and don't let these greedy behaviors become normalized.


Regarding the mini 2.5mm headphone jack, that could have been used but like I said, the reason they removed the 3.5mm headphone jack was not because of “space limitation", so it has nothing to do with limited space.
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(Basic phone with a 2.5mm headset jack, used for handsfree headset mics but also can be used for listening to stereo music)
The 2.5mm headphone jack was widely used at one point, back when people were using “basic phones”, the 2.5mm headphone jack was used to connect a hands free headset with a microphone (just goes in 1 ear).. however, the 2.5mm jack could also be used to listen to stereo audio, but you would need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter to plug in regular headphones. People listened to FM radio or some of their MP3 music (these basic phones also had a micro SD slot for extra storage for music). Oh and the funny thing is these basic phones that had the 2.5mm headphone jack also had Bluetooth! These 2.5mm wired headsets could also plug into cordless landline phones too, these cordless phones sometimes have a 2.5mm jack for plugging in headsets. Today, these 2.5mm headphone jacks are very uncommon, the 3.5mm headphone jack is even way more common still, I guess they are still used today for landline phones (people who work in an office who need to type on the computer while talking on the phone).
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(a 2.5mm headset)
I had a Motorola basic bar phone which costed $25 and it had a micro SD slot, a 2.5mm headphone jack (which I could use an adapter to plug in 3.5mm headphones), and it also had Bluetooth so I could use a Bluetooth headset too. I remember using Bluetooth on cellphones a long time ago (nearly 2 decades ago, that's like 20 years ago), it was a Jabra Bluetooth headset. It was cool but I remembered I had to charge the headset very often and the battery would sometimes die while I'm talking on the phone for long hours, whereas plugging in the wired headset didn't require charging as it doesn't have a battery so I remembered it being more convenient and lower maintenance, and I preferred it more than Bluetooth. I used the 2.5mm jack to listen to music too but I had to use an adapter so it can work with 3.5mm headphones.
Further reading:
Bluetooth was invented in 1994 by a guy named Jaap Haartsen, he laid the foundations for the system that was later known as the Bluetooth Wireless Technology. Bluetooth didn't hit mobile phones until 2001, and thus Bluetooth was around BEFORE the 3.5mm headphone jacks were common on mobile phones! How ironic is that? So the claim “Bluetooth is newer technology!" doesn't make any sense to me, or “the headphone jack was replaced by Bluetooth!”… headphone jacks weren't “replaced" and Bluetooth was already on phones before the headphone jacks were. I clearly remember using basic Motorola cellphones in the 2000’s, the Bluetooth technology was there BEFORE headphone jacks were common on phones! So I hope that sets the record straight with new versus old.
Ironically, when Apple included the 3.5mm headphone jack on the iPhone 1, that was a very highly sought feature at the time and a lot of people praised Apple for it as most cellphones at the time didn't have the 3.5mm headphone jack (except for some of Sony's cellphones).. most phones at the time only had a 2.5mm headphone jack or they had no headphone jack at all but you can plug in an adapter into the charging port to plug in 3.5mm headphones (back then they used mini USB ports). The 3.5mm headphone jack became popular when people used MP3 players back in the day, Apple's early success was due to the 3.5mm headphone jack as they had it on their iPods and iPhones, but Apple does not make any money directly from the 3.5mm headphone jack as the 3.5mm jack is universal and anybody is allowed use it with no royalty fees.

By removing the headphone jack on the iPhone, Apple made a lot of money… not only from Bluetooth AirPods headphones, but also by charging royalty fees to accessory manufacturers who make products using the Apple lightning connector… again, it's all about the money.. follow the money and you'll find the truth. The 3.5mm headphone jack was not only used for headphones, but for all different kinds of accessories. For example, the “Square" credit card reader plugged into the 3.5mm headphone jack and it could read credit cards and Square didn't have to pay royalty fees (except for the cost to have the app on iOS I guess). But now that Apple removed the headphone jack, Square has to pay a lot in royalty fees to Apple in order to make a Square credit card reader using the Apple lightning connector. Even something as simple as a selfie stick, the accessory manufacturer now has to pay Apple royalties if they made a selfie stick that plugs into the lightning port, whereas before, it was free because it plugged into the 3.5mm headphone jack and the stick has a shutter button that manually snaps the photo. There were also medical equipments that plugged into the 3.5mm headphone jack, things like thermometers and stethoscopes... now they have to pay royalties to Apple if they want to make an accessory using the lighting connector. Professionals often plugged in external microphones through the 3.5mm jack, now they can't. A lot of phones used the 3.5mm headphone jack as an FM radio antenna, an FM radio is extremely useful during an emergency as people can listen to the radio during emergencies when cellphone towers goes down, the 3.5mm jack is necessary for FM radio because it is used as an antenna. Anybody who makes an Apple accessory using the Apple lightning connector has to pay a fee to Apple, and the end user ends up paying the cost for it (manufacturers will have to raise their prices to make up for the royalty fees charged by Apple). I used to work for a company that made an accessory for Apple (an OTG drive that plugs into the lightning port), you have to pay them money to make it or they will go after you and sue, and they take like $4 from each accessory sale or something like that. It's really unfair that Apple has highly benefited from free technologies like the royalty free 3.5mm headphone jack and Bluetooth, yet they are charging money for people to use Apple's technology and inventions… what word to say other than GREED. Apple is having a big battle with Epic Games (maker of the ‘Fort Nite' game) because they're mad they aren't getting enough money from them, they got so mad they took down the game from the iOS App Store. I think Steve Jobs would be extremely disappointed right now.

Update: it appears as if Samsung's Galaxy S21 is seeing very poor sales, possibly the worst sales they've had for their flagship phone. I really think the reason is because of the removal of the headphone jack and the micro SD slot. I hope Samsung brings back the headphone jack and micro SD slot on their flagship phones after seeing poor sales on the S21. I am a big LG fan and think they make amazing phones, but I'm very sad to see them leave the smartphone market. Don't be afraid to look around and try different brands of Android phones, many of them are very good nowadays. By the way, I'm not a complete iPhone hater, I currently have an iPhone SE 2016 with a headphone jack and the sound quality from the headphone jack sounds very good (even better than some Android phones).

Source: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-phone...ent-if-its-located-at-the-bottom-of-the-phone

I also saw few people are believing that if they attach External DAC Dongle to the Phone, then the internal programme will automatically start sending the Digital Signal to DAC which will be converted into Analog and sent to your earphone. This is wrong concept. Android internal programme will not send it to external DAC but will send it to internal DAC only. Why it will send externally when it is designed to send to internal DAC? So your Dongle will actually receive Analog signal and will simply pass it to Earphone which you will hear. There will not be any change in Sound Quality if you use Dongle DAC.
 
Sep 8, 2021 at 10:08 PM Post #2 of 320
wow... just wow.
 
Sep 9, 2021 at 4:36 AM Post #4 of 320
Sep 9, 2021 at 8:14 PM Post #5 of 320
Apple wants to sell more stuff that has a huge markup. Bye bye headphone jack.

Buy an LG while you can. Enjoy the best 3.5mm jack you can find.

On the other hand, you can enjoy great sound for about 80 bux with a Radsone ES100 dac/bt/amp. I use LDAC with my phone into it. There are no problems, only great sound for about 10-12 hours. Whats not to love?

And yeah I rock a 1TB microsd in my LG G8X. Full library anywhere. I can even use FLAC files or MP3 or AAC, or anything! It's amazing.
 
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Sep 9, 2021 at 9:27 PM Post #6 of 320
My Nuu G5 has a headphone jack still. I am not sure I would say it sounds better though. If the phone has a headphone jack then it has a dac and amp that can drive it. Which I assume takes up space and costs money. Probably one of the reasons they stopped doing it. And the fact that everyone is going wireless anyway. I would say in just about every case a phone with a usb-c or whatever out and an external dac/amp is probably going to sound better. Unless you are using a super cheap dac. I haven't really tried bluetooth yet so I don't know what it sounds like. I should probably try it since my QC35's will do it. Just never bothered with it since I don't mind running it wired and its an option on my phone.
 
Sep 9, 2021 at 10:07 PM Post #7 of 320
You should get a linux phone like the pinephone. They're good phones with removable batteries, microSD card slots and headphone jacks. They also don't run proprietary spyware. A linux phone is a phone that actually YOURS and no company tells you what you can and cannot do with them.

Android is a lost cause and is only getting worse like iPhone.
 
Sep 10, 2021 at 2:09 AM Post #8 of 320
It isn't.
Android is UAC2 compatible (USB Audio Class 2)
However, the USB-C specs do allow for analog audio over USB-C, In this case it will be the onboard DAC doing the DA
Of course one can also do UAC, in this case you attach a DAC to the USB-C and this DAC will do the DA.
Even those tiny dongles contain a DAC
https://www.cabledo.com/moshi-usb-c-digital-audio-adapter-disassembly/
That is what I am saying, it will not send the Digital Signal to External Dongle. Digital Signals were sent to Internal DAC and already converted into Analog so external Dongle with DAC is only passing it to Earphones.

Apple wants to sell more stuff that has a huge markup. Bye bye headphone jack.

Buy an LG while you can. Enjoy the best 3.5mm jack you can find.

On the other hand, you can enjoy great sound for about 80 bux with a Radsone ES100 dac/bt/amp. I use LDAC with my phone into it. There are no problems, only great sound for about 10-12 hours. Whats not to love?

And yeah I rock a 1TB microsd in my LG G8X. Full library anywhere. I can even use FLAC files or MP3 or AAC, or anything! It's amazing.
I should have bought LG Phone but V50 and V60 are too big and heavy. Might have considered GX8S or something actually but ended up buying S10+. But once I am again ready to change this phone in a year or so, I can consider that. Or hopefully Sony release some phone which has 3.5mm Jack on bottom side. Not sure if Sony Phone DAC is as good as LG or not.

My Nuu G5 has a headphone jack still. I am not sure I would say it sounds better though. If the phone has a headphone jack then it has a dac and amp that can drive it. Which I assume takes up space and costs money. Probably one of the reasons they stopped doing it. And the fact that everyone is going wireless anyway. I would say in just about every case a phone with a usb-c or whatever out and an external dac/amp is probably going to sound better. Unless you are using a super cheap dac. I haven't really tried bluetooth yet so I don't know what it sounds like. I should probably try it since my QC35's will do it. Just never bothered with it since I don't mind running it wired and its an option on my phone.
They actually forced people to shift on Bluetooth so many are not worried about sound quality or going back to 3.5mm. What a shame. Bluetooth is the worst sound quality one can ever hear.

You should get a linux phone like the pinephone. They're good phones with removable batteries, microSD card slots and headphone jacks. They also don't run proprietary spyware. A linux phone is a phone that actually YOURS and no company tells you what you can and cannot do with them.

Android is a lost cause and is only getting worse like iPhone.
Agree. Android Phone Makers are also not greedy like Apple and trying to make more money only through unethical ways like removing 3.5mm Jack. I search abt Pinephone. Problem with these phones that thy are very basic ones. Due to few office requirements and checking emails etc, I will need reasonable faster phone. But unfortunately there is no good phone with good screen, smaller size and not too heavy and fast also which has 3.5mm Jack also avaiable.
 
Sep 10, 2021 at 2:12 AM Post #9 of 320
It isn't.
Android is UAC2 compatible (USB Audio Class 2)
However, the USB-C specs do allow for analog audio over USB-C, In this case it will be the onboard DAC doing the DA
Of course one can also do UAC, in this case you attach a DAC to the USB-C and this DAC will do the DA.
Even those tiny dongles contain a DAC
https://www.cabledo.com/moshi-usb-c-digital-audio-adapter-disassembly/
These Dongles with DAC, I don't think they are used when Internal DAC already done the work. They are more like USB C to 3.5mm Connector actually. Are you trying to say if USB C Dongle is attached, it will only be sued and internal DAC will be ignored? Why? Who will tell internal programme to ignore internal DAC and use external one?
 
Sep 10, 2021 at 2:50 AM Post #10 of 320
yes, they are indeed used, because the internal dac (not always present) is bypassed when the device is identified as containing a DAC and the USB or lightning is treated as USB and the PCM information is transmitted digitally over that connection.
 
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Sep 10, 2021 at 4:21 AM Post #11 of 320
Bluetooth is the worst sound quality one can ever hear.
Bluetooth just provides a data connection. It can be used with different audio formats/codecs, and additional options may be added in the future. Audibly transparency is already possible as far as I know.
I don't know how good the best existing bluetooth headphones sound, but that should not be limited by bluetooth, just by the actual design of the headphones themselves, including the built in amp etc.
 
Sep 10, 2021 at 4:25 AM Post #12 of 320
Apple have marketed no 3.5mm as super future progression. And people love that and feel exclusive. Also pushes the airpod sales. it was never about no room.
 
Sep 10, 2021 at 5:10 AM Post #13 of 320
If bluetooth sounds the same, why have a wire?
 
Sep 11, 2021 at 2:52 AM Post #15 of 320
yes, they are indeed used, because the internal dac (not always present) is bypassed when the device is identified as containing a DAC and the USB or lightning is treated as USB and the PCM information is transmitted digitally over that connection.
If internal DAC is not present then how you will hear music from Phone? How do you know it is not there? It is always there. Only difference can be different DAC Chip. And consider it it there, why it will be Bypassed?

Apple have marketed no 3.5mm as super future progression. And people love that and feel exclusive. Also pushes the airpod sales. it was never about no room.
Yes. It is and was for Money only. Nothing abt sound quality or space. That's what I have been saying for some time
 
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