[firesign]

Wow this is absolutely incredible! This further solidifies my choice to get custom MEST MKII.

Also, I think Person B might of not put in the MEST to get the proper bone conduction, but I’m just speculating. My Voyager 14 are better than u12t and andromeda by a long shot and the MEST MKII I presume smash them, so it makes sense why u12t and 6 BA Andro can’t compete to this monster MEST.

I do not understand this type of opinion so general, of the type "A is much better than B", especially when we are talking about both very good IEMs.

Is the Voyager 14 much better than the U12t simply because you like it better? The opinion of almost all the reviewers who think otherwise is worthless then, right?

All opinions are valid, but they should be expressed as personal opinions, not as established truth.

For many of these reviewers the U12t or Andromeda not only can compete with the Mest, but they are superior.

 

[Voyager14]

No experience with customs - hopefully there is someone who can comment on both customs in general & the MEST MK2 CIEM.

Have you heard either the MEST OG or the MK2, or are you buying blind?

I’m buying blind, but from the year long research I’ve done on the MEST I’m not worried about the sound signature just about if customs are uncomfortable/weird if laying down flat on a pillow vs universals/ or just finicky to deal with once they’re made. Resale value is not an issue as well as I’m hoping to wear them for 5+ years.

Thank you again!

 

[Voyager14]

I do not understand this type of opinion so general, of the type "A is much better than B", especially when we are talking about both very good IEMs.

Is the Voyager 14 much better than the U12t simply because you like it better? The opinion of almost all the reviewers who think otherwise is worthless then, right?

All opinions are valid, but they should be expressed as personal opinions, not as established truth.

For many of these reviewers the U12t or Andromeda not only can compete with the Mest, but they are superior.

I think it’s extremelt foolish to assume old technology/lesser driver quantity (and quality) as well as poultry low-end to be conducive to what most would compare to in the MEST.

Many reviewers have said the MEST (and for the smaller part the V14) are superior to u12t and Andros directly and unequivocally, sure everything is “subjective” at the end of the day but I’m saying the vast majority of listeners would agree with the sentiment, andro and u12t are outdated sets that can’t compare to the innovation of UM, it’s disrespectful to say “well a very small percentage disagrees“ as this undermines the iem and introduces exception-to-the-rule into the argument, of course we know there is always an exception/caveat however small to every argument, but let’s focus on the bigger picture instead.

“Almost all reviewers think otheraise?“ Contradicts your argument, as it’s a completely false statement based on 0 evidence claiming u12t and andro can match newer and better sets that are using latest gen Sonion/Knowles/BC/EST drivers.

Sure you can make a killer steak with a 5 dollar Walmart steak, but no matter how good of a chef you are you’re not making a 5 dollar steak taste better than a 200 dollar steak if cooked by similarly skilled cooks, sure you might somehow prefer the 5 dollar steak but 9/10 would disagree.

 

[firesign]

I think it’s extremelt foolish to assume old technology/lesser driver quantity (and quality) as well as poultry low-end to be conducive to what most would compare to in the MEST.

A new technology does not have to show a better result than an old one, and much better worked.
There are headphones with bone conduction drivers that don't sound good. And there are IEMs that have implemented EST drivers with a very bad result.

Many reviewers have said the MEST (and for the smaller part the V14) are superior to u12t and Andros directly and unequivocally, sure everything is “subjective” at the end of the day but I’m saying the vast majority of listeners would agree with the sentiment, andro and u12t are outdated sets that can’t compare to the innovation of UM, it’s disrespectful to say “well a very small percentage disagrees“ as this undermines the iem and introduces exception-to-the-rule into the argument, of course we know there is always an exception/caveat however small to every argument, but let’s focus on the bigger picture instead.

I don't think it's a small percentage of people who think that the U12t is superior to the Mest or the V14.
At least, if you look at the ranking of the majority of reviewers, the percentage of those who put the U12t above the Mest, and especially the V14, is higher.
Anyway, I don't care, because that's what I'm telling you, this is about personal tastes.

“Almost all reviewers think otheraise?“ Contradicts your argument, as it’s a completely false statement based on 0 evidence claiming u12t and andro can match newer and better sets that are using latest gen Sonion/Knowles/BC/EST drivers.

So most reviewers lie, right?
Is it impossible for a single dynamic driver to sound better than 14 BA drivers?
The Sony IER-Z1R uses a dynamic driver for the treble, and few (or any) IEMs can beat its quality, no matter how many EST or bone conduction drivers they may have.

Sure you can make a killer steak with a 5 dollar Walmart steak, but no matter how good of a chef you are you’re not making a 5 dollar steak taste better than a 200 dollar steak if cooked by similarly skilled cooks, sure you might somehow prefer the 5 dollar steak but 9/10 would disagree.

Do you mean that the price determines the quality and superiority of an IEM over the others?
I know people who, after listening to the Mest, returned it thinking that it was broken, due to the amount of treble it has. Using a certain technology or type of driver does not guarantee that it will sound good, or to everyone's taste. And for the record, I'm a total fan of Mest.

I don't think it is correct for anyone to categorically affirm that one IEM is better than another, simply because its price is higher, it uses a greater number of drivers, or more modern technologies. Because is not like that. Anyone can only talk about his personal taste, which one he prefers.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I think it’s extremelt foolish to assume old technology/lesser driver quantity (and quality) as well as poultry low-end to be conducive to what most would compare to in the MEST.

Many reviewers have said the MEST (and for the smaller part the V14) are superior to u12t and Andros directly and unequivocally, sure everything is “subjective” at the end of the day but I’m saying the vast majority of listeners would agree with the sentiment, andro and u12t are outdated sets that can’t compare to the innovation of UM, it’s disrespectful to say “well a very small percentage disagrees“ as this undermines the iem and introduces exception-to-the-rule into the argument, of course we know there is always an exception/caveat however small to every argument, but let’s focus on the bigger picture instead.

“Almost all reviewers think otheraise?“ Contradicts your argument, as it’s a completely false statement based on 0 evidence claiming u12t and andro can match newer and better sets that are using latest gen Sonion/Knowles/BC/EST drivers.

Sure you can make a killer steak with a 5 dollar Walmart steak, but no matter how good of a chef you are you’re not making a 5 dollar steak taste better than a 200 dollar steak if cooked by similarly skilled cooks, sure you might somehow prefer the 5 dollar steak but 9/10 would disagree.

Can you cite the reviewers who think that the MEST and/or Andro are better than the U12t?

My favorite reviewers all have U12t ranked higher than all versions of MEST and all versions of Andromeda
@Resolve
@antdroid
@Precogvision
@crinacle

I don't own it myself, but the above reviewers love it.

 

[Imusicman]

For me its all subjective at the end of the day. Some reviewers are also biased towards certain brands. Many reviews contradict themselves over time especially around flavour of the month gear.

Ultimately we all hear differently and you are your own best judge of what works best for you

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

For me its all subjective at the end of the day. Some reviewers are also biased towards certain brands. Many reviews contradict themselves over time especially around flavour of the month gear.

Ultimately we all hear differently and you are your own best judge of what works best for you

Of course audio is subjective. That's a given. The problem is that not everyone can listen to everything before they purchase. In fact, almost nobody can. So, what people need to do is find reviewers who help their audience choose between great alternatives. Reviewers are great for creating short lists of IEMs to choose from, then you can demo from that short list instead of from the over 800 that exist or whatever the outlet you are visiting has in stock. I value reviewers who have heard a lot of IEMs and can describe consistently the differences they hear and when I hear those alternatives I can resonate with what they say. They don't have to like what I like, they just need to be able to properly describe and communicate what they hear in an understandable and consistent way. Then, I listen to multiple reviewers that I respect to triangulate on truth and what I am likely to experience. This is far better than the random walk through various IEMs. You cannot completely rely on the threads here because over time, the only people remaining on those threads are their fan bases. What works for them may not work for you. You need a way to compare and contrast IEMs. Good reviewers help you do that.

Please give some examples of reviewers who contradict themselves around the flavor of the month? None of the 4 I cited do that as far as I can tell.

 

[firesign]

For me its all subjective at the end of the day. Some reviewers are also biased towards certain brands. Many reviews contradict themselves over time especially around flavour of the month gear.

Ultimately we all hear differently and you are your own best judge of what works best for you

That's the thing. All of this is subjective. Any IEM is definitely better than others, when we are talking about TOTL IEMs. Just one of them can like you more than the others.

 

[Imusicman]

You have your opinion and I have mine which I have already stated.

Time to move on

 

[Newobbowen]

Just want to add a bit of my own thought on MkII.
MKII are tonally perfect for me. I still own OG Andromeda and Solaris 2020. I like the sparkle, airy treble with my CA IEMs. I do like the bass on my Solaris as well. MKII sounds absolutely correct to me.
What I think MKII shine is its technicality. I like how MKII present the details. I really enjoy MKII create an expansive soundstage. MKII offer a sense of space around me. But I also point out that this “sense of space” might be more apparent if you are listening to a good recording. I personally found Masaaki Suzuki and the Bach Collegium Japan’s Bach Cantatas sound very impressive with MKII.

p.s. I mainly listen to classical music but I do enjoy many other genres.
I currently using the combo of UM MEST MKII with Shanling M6 pro and my music collections are largely hi-res flac or DSD.

 

[Newobbowen]

Speaking of cables... how are you guys liking the cable on Mest Mk2? Any urge to upgrade/replace?

Wondering if a flat 2-pin (i.e no “stump”/protrusion) would have matched the IEM a bit better...or maybe not?

The PW cable come with MKII feels pretty good. I absolutely have no urge to upgrade it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Given the (predictable) dramatic decline in MEST OG prices and the fact that UM has a conversion service from Universal to Custom, it may be time to buy a cheap MEST OG and turn it into custom.

@antdroid ranks the CIEM version of MEST OG at the same ranking level as the MKII even though they both haver different strengths and weaknesses. And many people who initial purchased the OG, eventually sold it to get a custom version of the OG. Given where the market is, this is a good time to consider getting a custom MEST OG via the resale market if that was once or currently is your goal.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

The PW cable come with MKII feels pretty good. I absolutely have no urge to upgrade it.

I love how PW cables look and feel. To me, this is the upgrade between the OG and MKII products.

 

[RTodd]

Of course audio is subjective. That's a given. The problem is that not everyone can listen to everything before they purchase. In fact, almost nobody can. So, what people need to do is find reviewers who help their audience choose between great alternatives. Reviewers are great for creating short lists of IEMs to choose from, then you can demo from that short list instead of from the over 800 that exist or whatever the outlet you are visiting has in stock. I value reviewers who have heard a lot of IEMs and can describe consistently the differences they hear and when I hear those alternatives I can resonate with what they say. They don't have to like what I like, they just need to be able to properly describe and communicate what they hear in an understandable and consistent way. Then, I listen to multiple reviewers that I respect to triangulate on truth and what I am likely to experience. This is far better than the random walk through various IEMs. You cannot completely rely on the threads here because over time, the only people remaining on those threads are their fan bases. What works for them may not work for you. You need a way to compare and contrast IEMs. Good reviewers help you do that.

Please give some examples of reviewers who contradict themselves around the flavor of the month? None of the 4 I cited do that as far as I can tell.

I guess I am one of the few that listens to everything before I buy it. Reviews and this forum set me on the trail and start to generate wonder lust. Then I demo if it does something I now cannot live without I buy, first impressions and tracks chosen to use based on what the comments say are the strengths and weaknesses.

Others that do not live in an area where doing demos is possible, seem to buy and flip if they do not like, that would be a lot of work. Glad I can avoid that.

Anyway at the end of the journey the IEM needs to resonate with you, and no one else’s opinion matters.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I guess I am one of the few that listens to everything before I buy it. Reviews and this forum set me on the trail and start to generate wonder lust. Then I demo if it does something I now cannot live without I buy, first impressions and tracks chosen to use based on what the comments say are the strengths and weaknesses.

Others that do not live in an area where doing demos is possible, seem to buy and flip if they do not like, that would be a lot of work. Glad I can avoid that.

Anyway at the end of the journey the IEM needs to resonate with you, and no one else’s opinion matters.

To me, initial impressions are not sufficient to make an IEM purchase. I need it for a week hooking it up to multiple sources, listening at different times in the day and across lots of music genre. It's great to have a product on demo for a week if you can do it, but those units are few and far between. It is much easier to figure out what you want on paper and then buy a cheap resale unit. If you don't like it, flip it. This is only possible with those units that are popular and widely distributed. It doesn't work for the exclusive units like Traillii. There its best to get the demo unit.