[Piotr Ryka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sov, you very well know I owned Edition 9s for full burn-in time and further, and heard them properly amped (although not with my own stuff). While yes - Edition 9 will have more impact than Omega 2/SR-4070, I would have to give the rest of the qualities to the Stax (at least in terms of sound). That being said - I was just throwing a die at the guy. I am aware he said that it is the best closed can he heard, but I wanted to mix in a different impression, pointing out that the statement DEFINITELY does not have to be true. SR-4070 to me wins in terms of soundstage, resolution, and micro dynamics... (and 4070 is actually more neutral I think).

With what amplifier have you heard E9?

 

[philodox]

I could have sworn I had posted in this thread... strange.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka /img/forum/go_quote.gif With what amplifier have you heard E9?

Entirety of RSA Line, Singlepower SS-1, Rudistor RPX-33, and a few others.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk005 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So...what's the difference between "brain burn in" and "brain washing"? david

Ask James he was the first in refusing the idea, and later on he accepted that concept, but IMO there is a diference, brain washing is while someone wants you to believe in something, knowing that it is not true, I do not feel that this case applies here, at least not from me, as I beleive in what I'm saying...LOL...of course I can be dead wrong...

The brain burn in, is while the brain and all the sensorial machine (to call it in some way) get used to a given presentation, being new to it...it hapen in the hearing, in the vision, taste, in all sensorial experiences, evne in love!!!!

For example of the 400 hours people believe they are needed to properly burn in the Edition, I recently realized that most of them belongs to the second category of the brain washing...er....burn in...
I could say it as I have right now one pair almost brand new, with a few hours of use, and trust me that they do not sound very different from my older one from the first batch, why? Very simple, I'm now familair with the S-Logic sound, and they way they present the music, so I do not need to adjust my brain to it, of course there are still little differences that need to be polished, and will, overtime, but it is not as from while I got them new and I was adjusting little by little to them...

I never discart the placebo effect, in any of my auditions, and I always consider it as posible and part of the phenomena...most fo the time, while we asume that the heapdhone is burning in, andchanging, what is indeed changing is the way we perceive it, as we are just adjusting our internal clock to the new presentation, that happened to me with the CD3K, SA5K, Editions, HD6XX and will keep on happening everytime we have a new sound...

Now in the case of the Editions the case is more critical, as the S-Logic is always new to us, unless we come from the PROLines or so...

 

[slwiser]

The best way to determine if the sound you are hearing is what you want is to compare them with another fairly nice headphone. I made extensive comparisons between my UE9 and my ATH-W5000 when I had them and the UE9 gave me more of what I expected than the W5000.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sov, you very well know I owned Edition 9s for full burn-in time and further, and heard them properly amped (although not with my own stuff). While yes - Edition 9 will have more impact than Omega 2/SR-4070, I would have to give the rest of the qualities to the Stax (at least in terms of sound). That being said - I was just throwing a die at the guy. I am aware he said that it is the best closed can he heard, but I wanted to mix in a different impression, pointing out that the statement DEFINITELY does not have to be true. SR-4070 to me wins in terms of soundstage, resolution, and micro dynamics... (and 4070 is actually more neutral I think).

I know, and I never ruled out your opinion, you have first hand experience with both, and that is very important, but we all hear differnetly, and evne more, we all are after different things in the music, just to mention another difference, for example, I prefer the HE90 to the Omegas by a lot, even on the Orpheus system, with no custom amp, and even though, I find the Editions very close to the HE90 in resolution, and soundstage, yes, I feel it that good, and I do not feel the same way about the Stax I have heard, none of them touches the Orpheus IMO...
Also I do not feel that the Omegas have a more natural soundstage than the Editions neither, but again that is a very personal apreciation as well...

Anyway I will try to listen them both again, to compare them side by side, to try to get more details about the differences...

BTW here is a comparison between the Stax and Edition 7, the older brother of the Editon 9, that was done some time ago (they should sound pretty much the same, so you can take this as a valid comparison as well) just to show you that I'm not alone on that regard...

 

[dmk005]

All kidding aside, I acknowledge that the associative brain amalgamation that must occur when we combine a new sound to a familiar sound when no other sources of variation exist. This does not, however, explain why S-logic seems to have an unusually long amalgamation period versus the difference between other competing headphones/brands. This argument is psychobabble to me and it tends to favor an opinion towards hype-based opinions versus just listening and having an opinion. I am not being combative here but suggesting that brain burn in does not support the superiority or value proposition of said $1200 UE9 headphones in my amalgamation-willing mind.

I still can't wait to actually listen.

1. david

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk005 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All kidding aside, I acknowledge that the associative brain amalgamation that must occur when we combine a new sound to a familiar sound when no other sources of variation exist. This does not, however, explain why S-logic seems to have an unusually long amalgamation period versus the difference between other competing headphones/brands. This argument is psychobabble to me and it tends to favor an opinion towards hype-based opinions versus just listening and having an opinion. I am not being combative here but suggesting that brain burn in does not support the superiority or value proposition of said $1200 UE9 headphones in my amalgamation-willing mind. I still can't wait to actually listen. david

David, I asked that to Florian personally, and the answer was more or less, that the angled drivers alone do not offer the right presentation as many manufacturers designers believe (because one of my questions was: why not doing it just giving an angle to the drivers instead of partially covering them?) That IIRC was his first approach, but according to him you need also to create a nearfiled point inside the earcup, to try to recreate the effect of a pair of nearfield monitors, or speakers, and how the sound will go, from the shape of the outer ear, all the way inside the ear channel.
To me, honestly, as Tyll and Meier stated many times, still the bleeding is missing, that only the crossfeed gives you, but it is better than the rest in that regard.
It seems that he studied that effect, and calculated an aproximate value for that point, and between both effects, partially covering the drivers, along with the angle, he managed to get a more natural feeling in the presentation and a different sound that is not similar to any other in the market, of the ones I have heard before...

Now if what he did, suits your needs or not, or if you like it or not, that is another point and this is very personal, to me they sound very nice, and the soundstage is more natural. Others may find this odd, or may like a different presentation, just as an example, we have members that like the soundstage of the K1000 and CD3K and the soundstage that Grado offers, who is right or wrong, all depends on what you are after...

But that they offer a different presentation, there is no doubt of that for me, and that is why you need to get used to them, if you like the sound of course, if not why bothering...

But, IMO the price is not only due to the fact fo the S-Logic, the heapdhones sound very good as well, on par ot the best of the high end ones...

 

[Piotr Ryka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Entirety of RSA Line, Singlepower SS-1, Rudistor RPX-33, and a few others.

And you find Stax 4070 more detailed. Interesting.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka /img/forum/go_quote.gif And you find Stax 4070 more detailed. Interesting.

Have you heard any electrostatics? I am just curious. If not, you should consider checking out some of the more recent ones.

 

[Piotr Ryka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you heard any electrostatics? I am just curious. If not, you should consider checking out some of the more recent ones.

Yes, last year Stax Omega II was the subject of my review. And I am quite sure, that E9 with my amp are more detailed.

 

[Piotr Ryka]

And frankly saying, I had old Stax and Audio-Technica electrostates before you were born.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, last year Stax Omega II was the subject of my review. And I am quite sure, that E9 with my amp are more detailed.

Omega 2 is bitchy and won't come out unless given massive voltage swings unfortunately...sounds like pulpy crap out of 007tII to my ears (others like it...I am not on that list). Depends on the tastes I guess. I cannot really effectively comment on my experience with Edition 9 and Stax because my experience does not make sense to me physically, although that knowledge is limited.

Older AT/Stax e-stats are amusing =]

 

[didwlgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find the Editions very close to the HE90 in resolution, and soundstage, yes, I feel it that good, and I do not feel the same way about the Stax I have heard, none of them touches the Orpheus IMO...

Dude...you WISH.
Edition 9 doesn't even come close.
Seriously....Stop. You're giving wrong impressions of both Edition 9 and HE90.
You might want to find an sr-omega before you go off ranting about edition 9 being closer to he90 than stax does.
Edition 9 is fun to listen to....but its nowhere close to HE90.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by didwlgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dude...you WISH. Edition 9 doesn't even come close. Seriously....Stop. You're giving wrong impressions of both Edition 9 and HE90. You might want to find an sr-omega before you go off ranting about edition 9 being closer to he90 than stax does. Edition 9 is fun to listen to....but its nowhere close to HE90.

Yeah right!!! Probably I'm deaf...

Wrong impressions??? So the other guy who compared it to the Edition 7 in that review that I linked is also wrong right? And some others here that also believe so are also wrong...

For the electrostatic lovers, please stop dreaming that the electrostatic resolution can not be achieved by dynamic cans, this is a very old myth, if you like, you can keep on dreaming about the HE90/Stax being the last word in headphones, and one of this days you will fall from the bed, serioulsy, and more sooner than later...