[Lazarus Short]

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Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely not true. Do you have any idea how many people the government has killed to keep a lid on certain inventions that would revolutionize the world? Do a search on the net and you'll get a good idea just how many and who some of them were.

Yes indeed. In recent years, several of the world's leading virologists have been bumped off [suicided/natural causes of course] - far more than would be expected due to chance alone. Now the bird flu pandemic-in-the-making is gathering power while the media ignores it. The events would make a good Stephen King or Michael Critchton novel. The Overlords really do [from what I have read] want to eliminate 95+% of humanity, and it needs to look like an accident.

Speaking of Overlords, I figured out the other day what the solution was to the puzzlement I have had over David Icke's Shape-Shifting Reptilian theory - he has been paid and published to put this so-bizzare-it-must-be-true idea before the world, so that the real Overlords can remain hidden. Yes, they are ordinary humans, but if I speak their name, you will not see me post here again. Don't even ask or PM me on this - do your homework.

I see from the last couple of pages that Global Warming has crept into the discussion, so I may as well weigh in. IMHO, the majority opinion on this topic is at least partly a scientific bandwagon phenom, and fueled by the endless quest for grant money. The minority opinion is that GW is real, but that man's contribution is relatively minor. I knew personally, 30 years ago, that based on the cyclic climate model of Selby Maxwell, Raymond Wheeler and others, that the climate would swing over to the warm side after 2000. In a few years, it will swing back. The corporate goons at Exxon are still a bunch of bastards.

Laz

 

[uraflit]

skeptical as always... we can don't know the truth and we never will.

problem solved! =]

 

[Lazarus Short]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uraflit /img/forum/go_quote.gif skeptical as always... we can don't know the truth and we never will. problem solved! =]

It can be safer in the dark - for a while.

Laz

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see from the last couple of pages that Global Warming has crept into the discussion, so I may as well weigh in. IMHO, the majority opinion on this topic is at least partly a scientific bandwagon phenom, and fueled by the endless quest for grant money. The minority opinion is that GW is real, but that man's contribution is relatively minor. I knew personally, 30 years ago, that based on the cyclic climate model of Selby Maxwell, Raymond Wheeler and others, that the climate would swing over to the warm side after 2000. In a few years, it will swing back. The corporate goons at Exxon are still a bunch of bastards.

climate change became the football that was tossed about, but the broader discussion was of the manipulation and/or willful misunderstanding of science and its observational and predictive methods.

because science by definition is always looking to refute or falsify itself, there is a tendency by people with non-scientific motives (political, religious) to take advantage of that natural internal debate to create the impression of controversy.

the previous discussion is a classic example of how someone can declare "scientists don't agree!!" and point to clearly political, unscientific agitprop.

 

[Marados]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif climate change became the football that was tossed about, but the broader discussion was of the manipulation and/or willful misunderstanding of science and its observational and predictive methods. because science by definition is always looking to refute or falsify itself, there is a tendency by people with non-scientific motives (political, religious) to take advantage of that natural internal debate to create the impression of controversy. the previous discussion is a classic example of how someone can declare "scientists don't agree!!" and point to clearly political, unscientific agitprop.

Brilliantly said.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Conspiracy Theory, UFO, and Alternative Topics is the other forum I frequent. Just make sure you have enough common sense to filter through the garbage if you decide to sign up. People need to open their eyes and realize the universe does not revolve around self-serving humans that want to rule everything around them and destroy what they can't. If you think this is interesting, you would flip if you found out what really caused the Columbia to come apart. From UFOs to 9/11, I've read tens of thousands of pages of documents and watched hundreds of hours of videos. After awhile, you have to take a step back because it's too much to take in, realizing you've been so horribly lied to all your life and been programmed to believe what the major media spoonfeeds you: everything from the worldwide daily news broadcasting of turmoil and torture to Fortune 500 companies telling you that you do not fit into society unless you buy their latest product. It's enough to make you cry, and it will.

x2 - this was my main area of hobby/interest in life after a personal sighting many years ago, which led to extensive reasearch and material and seminas, but there is such a lot to take in, my interests were UFOS and abductions and alike, then moved onto the cosmos and the universe and am now slowly ploughing through prof. hawkins works.

i would be amazed if we were the only form of intelligent life in the universe when there is an infinite amount of systems and galaxies out there. i realize surroundings and environmental factors have to be just right to nurture certain lifeforms, but given that there is no end to space (if you think there is, whats the other side of the end?

), there must be at least one, that would afford such criteria

 

[fhuang]

what is it so hard for people to believe there's life outside this planet? ipodpj, i'll pm you

 

[fhuang]

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Originally Posted by simpleworld /img/forum/go_quote.gif I firmly believe that our government has made contact with "non earth" beings. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors in secret bases. The State lies all the time. We are stupid "commoners", apparently we don't deserve to know the truth.

no, you and i are just as stupid as the government(s) all over the world or the other way around. you think they have the answer(s), i.e. if you ask them what's next if there's life out there?

 

[fhuang]

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Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif ibut given that there is no end to space (if you think there is, whats the other side of the end? ),

hey everybody knew the world/earth was flat

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif i would be amazed if we were the only form of intelligent life in the universe when there is an infinite amount of systems and galaxies out there. i realize surroundings and environmental factors have to be just right to nurture certain lifeforms, but given that there is no end to space (if you think there is, whats the other side of the end? ), there must be at least one, that would afford such criteria

it's probably more accurate to say that the universe is "immeasurably large" than to say it's infinite. the universe is most definitely expanding... and scientists will argue that it is in fact possible for an infinite universe to still expand. but no one really knows whether it is spatially infinite or just really, really big.

all evidence does show, however, that the known universe is certainly not temporally infinite... it began some 13-14 billion years ago.

but yes, i agree that the universe is large enough that the existence of life -- even intelligent life -- elsewhere in the cosmos is quite probable. the chance of that life somehow communicating or visiting us? significantly less probable.

 

[VicAjax]

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Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey everybody knew the world/earth was flat

the universe is flat, actually.
the data strongly suggest that, at least.

 

[EyeAmEye]

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Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif all evidence does show, however, that the known universe is certainly not temporally infinite... it began some 13-14 billion years ago. but yes, i agree that the universe is large enough that the existence of life -- even intelligent life -- elsewhere in the cosmos is quite probable. the chance of that life somehow communicating or visiting us? significantly less probable.

I have little problem with any of this based on our current scientific knowledge, which in the big picture, is next to nothing. Putting a probability of anything based on anything non-terrestrial (and even many things terrestrial) is foolish.

We don't know very much, so why do we think we do?

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif it's probably more accurate to say that the universe is "immeasurably large" than to say it's infinite. the universe is most definitely expanding... and scientists will argue that it is in fact possible for an infinite universe to still expand. but no one really knows whether it is spatially infinite or just really, really big. all evidence does show, however, that the known universe is certainly not temporally infinite... it began some 13-14 billion years ago. but yes, i agree that the universe is large enough that the existence of life -- even intelligent life -- elsewhere in the cosmos is quite probable. the chance of that life somehow communicating or visiting us? significantly less probable.

i dont doubt its expanding, some say its on its way back!

but what is it expanding in? what encapsulates the 'thing' that is expanding.

in other words if i take some silly putty in my hand or blu tak, and expand it, i can safely comment that that blu tak was expanding in the room i was in, withina house withing a street, within a .... etc etc

whats outside the expanding universe

thats where my head reaches its uncomprehendible ceiling limit!

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have little problem with any of this based on our current scientific knowledge, which in the big picture, is next to nothing. Putting a probability of anything based on anything non-terrestrial (and even many things terrestrial) is foolish. We don't know very much, so why do we think we do?

we actually know quite a bit about the history of the universe. our knowledge of extra-terrestrial life is another matter.

and i'm not assigning an exact probability to anything, i'm just saying that, based purely on the size of the universe and the number of known galaxies, there's a "pretty good" (yet unquantified) chance that life exists.. it's almost certain that the conditions necessary for life exist, so one would follow the other.

as for visitation from ETs... i'm not quantifying that, either... but the probability would, by the nature of the variables involved, be significantly lower.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif i dont doubt its expanding, some say its on its way back! but what is it expanding in? what encapsulates the 'thing' that is expanding. in other words if i take some silly putty in my hand or blu tak, and expand it, i can safely comment that that blu tak was expanding in the room i was in, withina house withing a street, within a .... etc etc whats outside the expanding universe thats where my head reaches its uncomprehendible ceiling limit!

my question to you is... why does there need to be anything beyond the universe? how about just: nothing?

we can't even observe all the universe, so observing what is beyond it is -- and always will be -- impossible.

my guess is that it's quite simply nothing. "nothing" is a concept that is next to impossible for the human mind to really grasp... the same for "nonexistence."