[Shaffer]

If you measure the channel separation and output of the cartridge, you will come to the same conclusion about 2 % (or so ). It is in no way only AT's fault, but due to the construction it is the most likely to happen in an AT cart/stylus.

This still doesn't explain how you came up with the 2%. I've setup more carts than you on an order of magnitude and could not make that claim, nor could any individual.

Setting up a ML equipped cartridge in SME in 2 minutes ? That would be the Mother LoL of all LoL's ...

Clearly, you've never done it nor are you familiar with the cartridge I cited directly. There's a shocker.

You must have been the luckiest guy in the world with your 5 ATs, neither of which required azimuth correction.

I'm just not pulling made-up factoids out of my hat.

(I snipped the rest due to a lack of relevance.)

 

[analogsurviver]

This still doesn't explain how you came up with the 2%. I've setup more carts than you on an order of magnitude and could not make that claim, nor could any individual.
Clearly, you've never one it. There's a shocker.
I'm just not pulling made-up factoids out of my hat.
 

It was amusing but definitely not funny to see objective measurements in German audio Press - of the then top Van den Hul cartridge.
 
With 50 dB+ separation in one direction, with less than 25 in the other. It was the costliest cart in the day.
 
Standard arm they used at the time was - you guessed it - SME V, which does not allow for azimuth adjustment.
 
If you have ever seen, let alone mounted the number of cartridges I did, to the degree of precision I require, you would have come to the very same conclusion(s). 
 
I plan to write the detailed instructions how to adjust the cart using test records and an oscilloscope. 
 
BTW, AT OC 9 and 33 PTG II are only specified to 30 dB channel separation. It has been long since I adjusted any of these (or their immediatev predecessors), but at least for OC Xs I do not remember they could exceed this 30 dB spec in real life - no matter what. AT does (did?) produce carts that could work better; I remember one AT-140ML that came to me with the complaint there is "something wrong with the balance". It was the record azimuth error, between 3 and 3 1/2 degrees, after correction that "crooked" cartridge registered solid 38+ dB, in both direction, phase of the residual signal being the same amplitude and phase both ways,  across much of the spectrum, roughly to 10 kHz, where the usual tapering in high frequencies kicked in. 
 
AT did produce one gem regarding ... - well, ANYthing - but I will limit myself here to separation. That cart not only does have very high separation in the midrange - but has, for all practical purposes, separation constant with frequency, at least to 20 kHz - the curve for separation largely mimics that of the frequency response, only reduced in level.
 
IF it is adjusted for azimuth. 
 
Chime in once you are consistently capable of results as above.

 

[f0oster]

edit:
 
nvm

 

[Arsis]

Garrard 440m... thoughts or experience with this model? Entry level, mid-70's right? I'm picking it up today for $20 @ a thrift store. Mainly because my wife wants a changer. From the pics I saw it appears in great condition. I'll post pics later.

Well here she is. Its in excellent condition and works flawlessly. I couldn't pass it up for $20. It doesn't sound nearly as good as my lowly Realistic linear tracker. Though all i did with the Garrard is look at the stylus with a microscope and plug it in. I think its in amazing shape to be 40 years old. I don't know that I'll keep it. I'll probably gift it to a friend as a starter table.

 

[RUMAY408]

Well here she is. Its in excellent condition and works flawlessly. I couldn't pass it up for $20. It doesn't sound nearly as good as my lowly Realistic linear tracker. Though all i did with the Garrard is look at the stylus with a microscope and plug it in. I think its in amazing shape to be 40 years old. I don't know that I'll keep it. I'll probably gift it to a friend as a starter table.

The wood looks nice, tune it up and I bet it might sound better than the Realistic

 

[analogsurviver]

 
The wood looks nice, tune it up and I bet it might sound better than the Realistic

If the Realistic in question is in fact a variation on Technics' linear tracking TT, and they did not cheapen it beyond belief, there is zero chance a changer (any model, any brand ) can touch it. I know of only one model within Technics linear tracking range that really went too far in plasticity : SL-5. Others are real sleepers, as with some mods ( which wildly differ among models ) they can sound absolutely fabulous.

 

[slayerming2]

Hey guys!
 
So pretty nooby question here. So I currently use my sennheiser hd 600 with my magni/modi with my laptop to listen to mostly classical, some rock and heavy metal. But I was interested in trying out with vinyls. So I don't really have a budget. Hopefully don't want to spend more than $800. Now a really basic question, assuming I have nothing. What is everything I need and what are some recommendations you guys can give?
 
Edit: If we could somehow include a CD player into this, that would be amazing! 

 

[Skylab]

Well, one issue is that your Magni only has one input. To play records, you need a second input because you need a phono preamp to connect the turntable to (please read the first post of this thread for more info on that).

You could solve that problem with one of these, which is a decent phono preamp with some line input switching:

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc754pp.html

Then you need a turntable and phono cartridge. There are LOTS of options in the $4-500 range for that: Music Hall, Pro-Ject, the new Onkyo direct drive...just to name a few. I haven't personally tried any of them (I use a higher end VPI) but others here have.

 

[Arsis]

If the Realistic in question is in fact a variation on Technics' linear tracking TT, and they did not cheapen it beyond belief, there is zero chance a changer (any model, any brand ) can touch it. I know of only one model within Technics linear tracking range that really went too far in plasticity : SL-5. Others are real sleepers, as with some mods ( which wildly differ among models ) they can sound absolutely fabulous.

Yea, I have to say the Realistic sounds pretty darn good. Its a LAB-2200 with a fresh Audio-Technica 311ep. Low noise and zero stepper noise like some of the Techniques have.

 

[slayerming2]

Well, one issue is that your Magni only has one input. To play records, you need a second input because you need a phono preamp to connect the turntable to (please read the first post of this thread for more info on that).

You could solve that problem with one of these, which is a decent phono preamp with some line input switching:

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc754pp.html

Then you need a turntable and phono cartridge. There are LOTS of options in the $4-500 range for that: Music Hall, Pro-Ject, the new Onkyo direct drive...just to name a few. I haven't personally tried any of them (I use a higher end VPI) but others here have.

Yeah I feel like I'll probably have to save more, and I plan to get everything later. What about the speaker? I would want a pair for around $200-$300.

 

[awsanderson]

recommendations for phono preamps?  currently running a vincent audio PH8 I got when I only had a few records and even I couldn't justify spending much more but now that my record collection has grown I'm in the market for a new phono preamp.  I want something that really brings out the differences between analog and digital. budget of around 5 to 8 thousand.  thinking about going with something like the audio research sp20 and using it for a headphone amp also as a replacement for my RSA Apache.
 
current turntable is a pro-ject 9.1 I think is the model number with a sumiko blackbird cartridge
 
on a side note could i get some of the same (more analog) sound with a different cartridge

 

[analogsurviver]

@awsanderson : I did say , many times by now, that spending lots of $ on phono preamp is not the best strategy to improve phono playback. Your present equipment is quite decent. More is to be had from a better TT/cart, than from a phono preamp. Justifying a phono preamp in excess of 5 K is tough indeed - because the combo (cart + preamp = certain amount one is still willing to pay ) with better cart WILL sound better than some super duper preamp amplifying shortcomings of a lesser cartridge.
 
In any case, I would first make absolutely sure your present TT/cart is set up to the maximum of its abilities. A properly set up vintage TT with all up cost of say $500 can mop the floor with something 10 (or more...) times the price - given the slightest omission in the setup of the costlier table.
 
But if you do have an itch to scratch ( and some budget to exteeeend ), you can kill both with a single stone. Optical cartridge with its dedicated "box" ( can not be used with any conventional phono preamp )
 
http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/ds-audio-ds-w1-nightrider-optical-phono-cartridge/
 
I have heard it this year at the Munich High End show and if it were not for the money...
 
If you are absolutely maniacal about speed, precision, etc, and can back it with the wallet, this may be one hell of an interesting proposal ( it ticks all the right boxes, save one zero too much on the right side of the price tag, specially when its dedicated phono preamp is selected ) : 
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/kubotek-haniwa-hctr01-mkii-6t-green-marker-phono-cartridge#LYX5GcE48jVLd3iL.97

 

[awsanderson]

Analogsurvivor, while my tt does sound good I sometimes A/B it to my other source (my computer) and can't always hear a difference or much of one.  I think maybe then what I need is a more revealing front end, currently run either Mini Maggies from an Emotiva amp or hd 650's from the Apache.  Looking for the weakest link...
 
PS maybe a record cleaner is in my near future.
 
Also not necessarily looking for a "better" sound just a different one.

 

[analogsurviver]

Awsanderson, prior to doing anything else, get yourselves a decent ULTRASONIC record cleaner. It can be put together for approx 500-ish $ ( various kits + your US cleaner of sufficient size ).  It IS the biggest difference one can make regarding the phono playback. 

 

[awsanderson]

will do thanks