TURNTABLE SETUP Questions thread - don't start a new thread, ASK YOUR QUESTION HERE!
Sep 30, 2014 at 10:57 AM Post #2,701 of 3,585
Glad that it worked out! I was out of country recording and only had time to heck headfi now.

Although low cost, that replica ADC stylus is not bad at all. 


The replica actually is good. I don't have change to listen to the original ADC but this is no and no complain.
By the way, I found another TT (Technics) for $10. The diamond stylus still looks good and it sounds good too!!! This TT has GND cable.
 
Sep 30, 2014 at 12:33 PM Post #2,702 of 3,585
The replica actually is good. I don't have change to listen to the original ADC but this is no and no complain.
By the way, I found another TT (Technics) for $10. The diamond stylus still looks good and it sounds good too!!! This TT has GND cable.

This is turning into 
 
 
How low can you go 
evil_smiley.gif

 
competition in finding the best price for a functioning TT with usable stylus & GND cable - LOL !
 
Enjoy your new addition 
cool.gif
.
 
On the other side of the ADC rainbow - that transparent stylus is sublime ... - wish I did not have it as a passing guest only !
 
Sep 30, 2014 at 12:39 PM Post #2,703 of 3,585
This is turning into 


How low can you go :evil:

competition in finding the best price for a functioning TT with usable stylus & GND cable - LOL !

Enjoy your new addition :cool: .

On the other side of the ADC rainbow - that [COLOR=E6E6FA]transparent [/COLOR]stylus is sublime ... - wish I did not have it as a passing guest only !


What is ADC rainbow?
 
Sep 30, 2014 at 12:51 PM Post #2,704 of 3,585
In plain English - top of the line ADC stylus, the almighty and by now next-to-impossible to get Astrion. The ultimate stylus for the style of ADC cartridge in your possession.
 
Can turn your vision red(ish) upon finding by how much - yet again for n-th time - has the price risen since the last known sale was made and another even more rarer has turned up for grabs ... Still worth every dime, though. 
 
Sep 30, 2014 at 10:42 PM Post #2,706 of 3,585
  Any thoughts on how much of an upgrade the Ortofon Black and or Bronze Cart is over the Blue? 
 
I'm currently using the Ortofon Blue with the Technics SL-1200 MK2 seriously considering an upgrade


I just upgraded to the Black from an Elys40 and Exact 2. I haven't heard the Blue so I can't offer a direct comparison. The Black has much better instrument separation than the Elys40 or Exact. Instrument separation with the Exact was clearly better than the Elys40, and the Black is clearly better than the Exact. Energy wise, the Elys40 was the dullest sounding, whereas I find the Black and Exact to be similar. Caveat: I ruined my Exact so I can't do direct comparisons -- only from memory. In hindsight, I wish I had skipped the Exact and jumped straight to the Black.
 
Oct 1, 2014 at 6:14 PM Post #2,708 of 3,585
  Any thoughts on how much of an upgrade the Ortofon Black and or Bronze Cart is over the Blue? 
 
I'm currently using the Ortofon Blue with the Technics SL-1200 MK2 seriously considering an upgrade

 
The Black is a nude shibata while the Blue is a nude elliptical, so I can safely say there would be one hell of a difference. The Bronze is a fine line, so the jump to Black over Bronze is less obvious
 
Oct 2, 2014 at 1:33 AM Post #2,709 of 3,585
  Any thoughts on how much of an upgrade the Ortofon Black and or Bronze Cart is over the Blue? 
 
I'm currently using the Ortofon Blue with the Technics SL-1200 MK2 seriously considering an upgrade

Blue is nude elliptical, Bronze nude fine Line and Black nude Shibata. Bronze should be appreciably better than elliptical, the diff from Bronze to Black should be comparatively smaller increase in quality.
 
There is another aspect - 2M series, although interchangeable across entire line ( you can use whatever 2M stylus with whatever 2M body ), there are differences in bodies.
Red/Blue share less sophisticated body, Bronze/Black feature top level. 
 

 
There is even a silver wire version 2M in existance (never saw one in flesh) : http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORTOFON-MM-TONABNEHMER-2M-SILVER-MIT-SILBERSPULEN-SILVER-COILS-/311107053985?pt=Plattenspielerzubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item486f6ce9a1
 
 

 

 
Oct 2, 2014 at 8:40 PM Post #2,710 of 3,585
  Blue is nude elliptical, Bronze nude fine Line and Black nude Shibata. Bronze should be appreciably better than elliptical, the diff from Bronze to Black should be comparatively smaller increase in quality.
 
There is another aspect - 2M series, although interchangeable across entire line ( you can use whatever 2M stylus with whatever 2M body ), there are differences in bodies.
Red/Blue share less sophisticated body, Bronze/Black feature top level. 
 

 
There is even a silver wire version 2M in existance (never saw one in flesh) : http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORTOFON-MM-TONABNEHMER-2M-SILVER-MIT-SILBERSPULEN-SILVER-COILS-/311107053985?pt=Plattenspielerzubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item486f6ce9a1
 
 

 



Any thoughts about the Super OM 40, my understanding: 10=Red, 20=Blue, 30=Bronze, 40=Black
 
Oct 2, 2014 at 8:53 PM Post #2,711 of 3,585

Incidentally, analogsurvivor, mighty interesting videos.  Thanks for that.
 
Oct 2, 2014 at 11:44 PM Post #2,712 of 3,585
 
Any thoughts about the Super OM 40, my understanding: 10=Red, 20=Blue, 30=Bronze, 40=Black

Your reasoning is *about* correct. I have not compared them under the microscope, I actually NEVER listened to any 2M under anything like known system conditions. I did not measure any 2M either - yet. 
 
That *about* is based on THE VERY SOUND reason - mechanical integrity and freedom from resonances in cartridge/stylus combination. OM series evolved from the LM series - and got the "Super" with the introduction of the Ortofon's patented slit pole pieces. 
 
Being lazy, I will use pics from AK to explain the mechanical difference between the LM and OM ( either normal or super, same body in physical dimensions save internal pole pins ) : http://mail.audiokarma.net/forums/showthread.php?t=234658  Contrary to some claims in the thread, OM is NOT mechanically superiour to LM - the "pillar" between the actual cartridge and mounting plate is much shorter on LM, with both being about the same thickness, that means it flexes less under the load imposed by the stylus.
 
It is kind of acceptable to use so flimpsy mechanical structure in a high compliance cartridge - it does not result in directly objectionable degradation of sound to a casual listener. Trouble is, Ortofon did use the very same OM form for one of their best ever carts - MC 200, specifically MC200U normal 1/2" mount version. And that is a VERY LOW compliance cartridge ( besides being very low output, 0.09 mV - which I use to put MC stages trough their paces; only a less than handful of carts ever available produce even lower output ). You can have the toughest of "poles" for tonearm, MC200U will still not sound dynamic, with good bass control, good spatial reproduction, without treble going slightly fuzzy, etc. In this case, the mechanical integrity of that pillar is just plain insufficient.
 
I bought my MC200U in 1984 - and "had to endure" it mounted to Kuzma Stogi 20 g effective mass version arm for a year or two, until its Fine Line stylus no longer was so fine due to wear. With Ortofon prices for replacement of stylus with MC cartridges ( 2/3rd of the cost of the new cartridge ) and not being exactly over the moon with MC200U performance in the first place, I had an idea. What IF some mechanical strenghtening member was added to the OM style body in order to prevent it being modulated by the stylus movement ? After about a couple of attempts and couple of hours of precise filing a piece of fiberglass epoxy printed circuit material board, I came up with the solution that finally did the trick. It has to be made so tight/snug fit that it mounts WITHOUT any glue - just snapping into place. You can trust me, it is not something for the faint at heart, particularly as I at the time did not possess any OM body to practice with, all of that was actually being done on the MC200U itself. And MC carts do not have replaceable stylus - multiple trial and error attempts ( angles etc are ANYTHING BUT right/square/parallel/regular ) .
 
Result ? Probably the first MC200U that did sound correctly. After that, I had it retipped at Benz Switzerland, not some Fine Line, but VdH 1S - the sharpest VdH rarely seen
and by now I think ( to think is to know nothing...) out of production. Firm non resonant body and superiour stylus tip profile propelled an otherwise potentially superiour design to an actually superiour sounding cartridge.
 
Remember, accelerations in the record groove can and do reach 2000 G. As F = m x a still stands, that means with a 0.5 mg stylus tip effective mass, that poor "pillar" is exerted to about 10 "kilogram" of wiggling in the worst case scenario ( 5-10 kHz range, where recording velocity can reach and exceed 100 cm/s velocity ) - YES, your cartridge AND arm has to work that hard. And is the reason why spaghetti thin arm tube  Infinity Black Widow had to give way to designs with large arm tube diameter spearheaded by Linn Ittok and culminating in Continuum Cobra.
 
I will post pics of the real McCoy ( which got unfortunately decantileverized by a friend ...) in a couple of days - and you will see that 2M is a practical answer by the Ortofon to this in the past overlooked problem.
 
So, in view of this, 10<Red, 20<Blue, 30<Bronze, 40<Black.
 
Oct 3, 2014 at 12:08 AM Post #2,713 of 3,585
 
Incidentally, analogsurvivor, mighty interesting videos.  Thanks for that.

2M is important enough to warrant such representation - and it meant only "picking off the YT shelf" effort for me - real thanks should go to the author of the videos.
 
As it is actually analogsurviver, I feel compelled to write the Analogsurviver Manifesto - this time it will be posted in my profile. That is there for the + reason(s) .
 
Oct 3, 2014 at 11:05 AM Post #2,714 of 3,585
 
 
Incidentally, analogsurvivor, mighty interesting videos.  Thanks for that.

2M is important enough to warrant such representation - and it meant only "picking off the YT shelf" effort for me - real thanks should go to the author of the videos.
 
As it is actually analogsurviver, I feel compelled to write the Analogsurviver Manifesto - this time it will be posted in my profile. That is there for the + reason(s) .


I've been an Ortofon fan since the 80's (MC20 Super) so substituting a 2M Black for whatever Rega cartridge would come with an RP6 was an easy decision.
 
Sorry abut mis-spelling the mis-spelling.  Attention to detail has never been one of my strong points.
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Oct 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM Post #2,715 of 3,585
 
I've been an Ortofon fan since the 80's (MC20 Super) so substituting a 2M Black for whatever Rega cartridge would come with an RP6 was an easy decision.
 
Sorry abut mis-spelling the mis-spelling.  Attention to detail has never been one of my strong points.
biggrin.gif

I am an admirer of better Ortofon cartridges - regardless of price - and will say if some are underachievers ( MC 7500 was something I was most disapointed by so far ).
 
I realize it is quite easy to mis-spell the miss-spelled name for native English speakers. I will write it all down in a manifest - there really are multitude of reasons for that e.
 
Inspired, among other things, by Transcriptors Vestigal (  the correct name : not correctly in English : vestigial ) tonearm :
 

This peculiar ( looking and performing ) arm is my  audio lifelong love/hate affair - but in the end, after all flirtations with other designs, I always come back to this principle. 
Even if it will mean a newly built from scratch design incorporating "everything" that became available in those four decades since Vestigal first appeared. In many ways, it has been VERY seldom equaled in performance, let alone exceeded - and with the right cartridge and the turntable that in one way or another achieves flat record(s), will continue to hold its own and giving run for the money to practically anything else. 
 
( and yes, vestigal does get underlined with wavy red line for miss-spelling  
tongue_smile.gif
 as I type this .)
 

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