[OctavianH]

Finally some action: Mullard ECC31 in the 6J5 slots of Eternity, with triodes in parallel. Bias around -4.4V @180V/4mA.

So now I can try something I wanted for a long time: Mullard ECC31 + Mullard EL34 xf2. This one is a good one, it will keep me busy for a while.

Thinking a little bit on the last 6 months with Eternity, I have to say that I derived a lot from the path I was expecting to follow. I wanted to move from 6SN7/6AS7 to KT66 and 6J5 natively on the amplifier, with manual bias to be sure all works as I expect and here I am: EL34 and ECC35/ECC31 and CV1985. In the meantime I made some cost saving selling a lot of the old tubes (even 2 pairs of 5998 which I never thought I'll do). So my collection is smaller but the sound and satisfaction is greater. I do not regret at all, these types I've mentioned are for me much better than the older types and, at least EL34 and 6J5, are also much cheaper. Now I guess the next logical step would be ECC32 on inputs and EL156 on outputs. We will see. I have a feeling that ECC31/35 and the CV1985 will replace more and more in my listening sessions my 6J5 which, at a point in time. will leave my collection. Which is my favourite? Well, CV1985 but it is hard to make a top, all being spectacular on Eternity. And this is why I have to try ECC32.

Good times ahead. The new Dream Theater album sounds "colossal", if I can say this, on this 4 x Mullard combo.

PS. I could not find graphs for ECC31 but DuoVac saved me. It was one of the best acquisitions I've made helping me many times to pair tubes or to check the situation before doing something stupid on the amplifier. It's my guardian angel and because of it I never burned an output fuse. So it deserves all my consideration.

 

[hpamdr]

Finally some action: Mullard ECC31 in the 6J5 slots of Eternity, with triodes in parallel. Bias around -4.4V @180V/4mA.


So now I can try something I wanted for a long time: Mullard ECC31 + Mullard EL34 xf2. This one is a good one, it will keep me busy for a while.



Thinking a little bit on the last 6 months with Eternity, I have to say that I derived a lot from the path I was expecting to follow. I wanted to move from 6SN7/6AS7 to KT66 and 6J5 natively on the amplifier, with manual bias to be sure all works as I expect and here I am: EL34 and ECC35/ECC31 and CV1985. In the meantime I made some cost saving selling a lot of the old tubes (even 2 pairs of 5998 which I never thought I'll do). So my collection is smaller but the sound and satisfaction is greater. I do not regret at all, these types I've mentioned are for me much better than the older types and, at least EL34 and 6J5, are also much cheaper. Now I guess the next logical step would be ECC32 on inputs and EL156 on outputs. We will see. I have a feeling that ECC31/35 and the CV1985 will replace more and more in my listening sessions my 6J5 which, at a point in time. will leave my collection. Which is my favourite? Well, CV1985 but it is hard to make a top, all being spectacular on Eternity. And this is why I have to try ECC32.

Good times ahead. The new Dream Theater album sounds "colossal", if I can say this, on this 4 x Mullard combo.

PS. I could not find graphs for ECC31 but DuoVac saved me. It was one of the best acquisitions I've made helping me many times to pair tubes or to check the situation before doing something stupid on the amplifier. It's my guardian angel and because of it I never burned an output fuse. So it deserves all my consideration.

ECC31 and the Navy version NR73 is one of my favorite driver/input tube paired with GEC 6080 on Euphoria or EL39 on Ethernity. ECC32 are very close to ECC31 but much more expensive (5 times).. You can use only one on Ethernity in 6SN7 socket, with adapter it could be the same with ECC31.

Using dual triode tube in input socket is less precise but change amplification factor and it add some hysteresis wich could be very pleasant and musical, it also allows to use unballanced T1/T2 tube.

About DuoVAC, I totally agree having an easy to use measurement tools is a very good complement for precise manual bias amplifier. It makes you much more confident and prevent to plug exhausted or totally unmatched pairs. Even taking into acount deltas due heating voltage and gyrator you can guess good bias value and know for sure that every tube is unique !

Curently listening : (Wilco : Ode to joy [2019])

And give a look on track (4) .....

 

[OctavianH]

ECC31 and the Navy version NR73 is one of my favorite driver/input tube paired with GEC 6080 on Euphoria or EL39 on Ethernity. ECC32 are very close to ECC31 but much more expensive (5 times).. You can use only one on Ethernity in 6SN7 socket, with adapter it could be the same with ECC31.

ECC2 prices are crazy, so this will remain only a plan at the moment. I never tried ECC31 on Elise, I guess at Ih=0.95A I was a little bit above 6.5A with 6080 (2x2.5 + 2x0.95=6.9A). But this has to work fine on Euforia. I never liked 6080 (at least the Mullard I had several pairs) so for me are almost unknown, but I remember they were getting quite hot on the amplifier, I touched one during usage by mistake and remember that. LOL

Using dual triode tube in input socket is less precise but change amplification factor and it add some hysteresis wich could be very pleasant and musical, it also allows to use unballanced T1/T2 tube.

So you prefer to use ECC31 in the 6SN7 slot vs a pair in the 6J5 slots? You find the sound to be more precise? I will try this soon because I am also curious. I'll do this also for the Fivre 6N7G.

Curently listening : (Wilco : Ode to joy [2019])
And give a look on track (4) .....

The track is called "Quiet Amplifier". Nice one.

 

[OctavianH]

Friday workday. No beer today for me, just took the 3rd vaccine jab, but a lot of fun otherwise.

This means C3g in input and then EL3N in both input output positions. Nice! And measuring C3g is fun, you do not see anything. I usually look if something lights up, but here, black box.

On the amplifier, well, with a grid around -3 you are fine, BUT I've seen these jump a lot in current with the smallest grid adjustment. These are dangerous tubes for Eternity. I've seen around 1mA with 0.1 increase or decrease of the grid bias on the tester. More than this, these are "slow starters", I needed 10-15 minutes for these to stabilise. Unlike 6J5 or 6C5 which are in 1-2 minutes stable and measure the same, these need some time like the output tubes, for example EL38. On the amplifier things are smoother, however I am very careful with these. So caution guys, when you try these. Soundwise I will not say more, they sound as I remember them, quite clean and incissive, a little bit towards solid state, but very transparent. But these will take forever to burn in and I am not sure if this sound is my favourite with EL34. I would put something warmer on outputs for these.

Next would be EL3N measuring. Busy day guys.

 

[hpamdr]

just for your information for El3N : this is my measurement (each tube measure different) but this is a good sample.
This give:
-8.1V g-bias for input (4ma at 180V)
-6.1V g-bias for output (20ma at 200V)

 

[hpamdr]

About ECC31 or 6N7G in 6SN7 socket, this is the most conventional is to use single triode in input to have less distortion and noise.
Anyhow i like my viseaux 6N7GT better in 6J5 socket this make the sound a bit more punchy but a bit less precise in the high. With ethernity this is very subtile..

 

[OctavianH]

just for your information for El3N : this is my measurement (each tube measure different) but this is a good sample.
This give:
-8.1V g-bias for input (4ma at 180V)
-6.1V g-bias for output (20ma at 200V)

Your EL3N measure a little bit better than mine (some of mine, because I have 6). I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that some of them are measuring quite differently.

After almost 2 hours of fighting, trying and so on I made 2 decent pairs. I measured each at 2 operating points (4mA @ 180V and 20mA @ 200V) and found that one which is stronger at one operating point is not as strong on other. You would expect that you measure all once and then just change voltage and that's it, direct proportionality. Well, crap happens. NOT! So I had to try a lot of combinations to see how these pair better. Anyway, the best compromise was for me, this measured directly with the Voltmeter on the amplifier:
- input -6.4V for 4mA (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -6.5)
- output -5 for 20mA. (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -5.5)
Other 2 measured stronger, but not close. One was indeed around -8 like yours and one -7.x... I do not remember.

Anyhow, the picture which makes our eyes smile:

The tube on the front in the left was "cosmeticized" by me by removing red paint which started to fail on the base to look nicer. It can be seen before in the other picture on the left. So yes, I HATE this red paint. I also hate the socket these use, the only advantage I can see is that you cannot put a tube wrong in the adapter because it is asymetrical, otherwise, nothing.

Soundwise, of course, not enough time, I barely found time to measure and pair and test and so on. I liked what I heard with EL3N with EL34 on the output, I will investigate this more. This 4 x EL3N combo is for display. This is too much for me in terms of romanticism and a kind of fake soundstage these provide. The rule of contrasts is good here, so I will try to make other combos and not use them like this.

Well, that's it for today, I have listened until now to my equipment, now I will start to listen to music. But first I'll make something with these to fix the signature, so one of the pairs has to go.

PS. I've read about some Tungsram EL3N on these threads, at other amplifier builder, but the people who tried them definitely prefer the Philips, so I guess that's it with EL3N. I am a little bit curious about EL3 (straight glass) but I will not invest a lot in these, at least not with this kind of base.

 

[hpamdr]

Your EL3N measure a little bit better than mine (some of mine, because I have 6). I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that some of them are measuring quite differently.



After almost 2 hours of fighting, trying and so on I made 2 decent pairs. I measured each at 2 operating points (4mA @ 180V and 20mA @ 200V) and found that one which is stronger at one operating point is not as strong on other. You would expect that you measure all once and then just change voltage and that's it, direct proportionality. Well, crap happens. NOT! So I had to try a lot of combinations to see how these pair better. Anyway, the best compromise was for me, this measured directly with the Voltmeter on the amplifier:
- input -6.4V for 4mA (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -6.5)
- output -5 for 20mA. (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -5.5)
Other 2 measured stronger, but not close. One was indeed around -8 like yours and one -7.x... I do not remember.

Anyhow, the picture which makes our eyes smile:



The tube on the front in the left was "cosmeticized" by me by removing red paint which started to fail on the base to look nicer. It can be seen before in the other picture on the left. So yes, I HATE this red paint. I also hate the socket these use, the only advantage I can see is that you cannot put a tube wrong in the adapter because it is asymetrical, otherwise, nothing.

Soundwise, of course, not enough time, I barely found time to measure and pair and test and so on. I liked what I heard with EL3N with EL34 on the output, I will investigate this more. This 4 x EL3N combo is for display. This is too much for me in terms of romanticism and a kind of fake soundstage these provide. The rule of contrasts is good here, so I will try to make other combos and not use them like this.

Well, that's it for today, I have listened until now to my equipment, now I will start to listen to music. But first I'll make something with these to fix the signature, so one of the pairs has to go.

PS. I've read about some Tungsram EL3N on these threads, at other amplifier builder, but the people who tried them definitely prefer the Philips, so I guess that's it with EL3N. I am a little bit curious about EL3 (straight glass) but I will not invest a lot in these, at least not with this kind of base.

The paint is protection against RFI it is also a Philips "Red tube" marker.
For me EL3 are not as good as EL3N they also use more current for heating. The Philips and Dario are the most reliable and usually with a constant building quality. About Tunsgram and Mazda many tube measure different and the slope of the curve can differ (more than Phillips) so making a good pair is tricky without measurement tool or curve tracer. The one I own are also more sensible to RFI than the Philips one.
Phillips and Miniwat green paint are my preferred, after visseaux 6M6

 

[OctavianH]

After a few days wandering on EL3N and C3g territory I have returned to different combos based on EL34. It is clear to me that the best I could obtain for Verite and my musical preferences was always gravitating around EL34. This time the Philips EL34 xf5 doube-D getter (L1L date codes) with Mullard ECC35 (rebranded Zaerix, no date code visible or at least I could not find it).

This is a combination I like a lot, the xf5 being detailed but a little bit dry and here ECC35 comes with a warm somehow euphonic presentation and brings back what I call equilibrium. And when I am bored with this, the Tesla EL34 double angled O-getters comes into play, but those are more aggressive and somehow musical, so we need to put the Brimar 6SL7GT CV1985 into play. Less warm than the ECC35 and more mid forward, compensates what the Tesla EL34 adds. As usual, every combo is a compromise, you add something, substract something, and somehow in the end the result is in equilibrium. I was never a story teller, nor a good describer, but these 2 combinations are, most probably, the endgame for me. The rest of the tubes are just there for other headphones to try or just for experimenting. I can live with these 2 combos forever, at least for these headphones.

What next? Well, I have some homework left to do: EL156 and 807. Then maybe 6C4 via adapters to 6J5? Someone tells me those make sense to be tried. We will see, at the moment things are perfect with these 2 combos I've mentioned. I am at the end of the road in trying new types, I do not want to explore more because I found what I was looking for at the beginning. In this hobby it is important to know when to stop, or at least to try this. New Year resolution? Well, enjoy more the music and not your equipment. Sounds good, until next time I start to dig on Ebay. LOL

 

[mordy]

It is a very happy feeling when you finally find what you were looking for.
But...
Then perfection becomes the new normal.
And then it gets a little boring.
And then the upgrade bug bites again.
IT NEVER ENDS!

But if you have willpower, you could stop at that stage.
At least for a while LOL!

 

[OctavianH]

You are right. I say more than this, there is no perfection. I think these are only different faces we put to our music. Most probably these are different than what the production engineer wanted, than the band wanted and even than other listeners want. But for us, at a point in time, it is the best we think we hear. After some time, this becomes boring and indeed, we start all over again. Even in time, we start to hear differently or want something else, and the same combination will not have the same effect.

 

[mordy]

Your EL3N measure a little bit better than mine (some of mine, because I have 6). I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that some of them are measuring quite differently.



After almost 2 hours of fighting, trying and so on I made 2 decent pairs. I measured each at 2 operating points (4mA @ 180V and 20mA @ 200V) and found that one which is stronger at one operating point is not as strong on other. You would expect that you measure all once and then just change voltage and that's it, direct proportionality. Well, crap happens. NOT! So I had to try a lot of combinations to see how these pair better. Anyway, the best compromise was for me, this measured directly with the Voltmeter on the amplifier:
- input -6.4V for 4mA (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -6.5)
- output -5 for 20mA. (on Duovac I had a little bit more, like -5.5)
Other 2 measured stronger, but not close. One was indeed around -8 like yours and one -7.x... I do not remember.

Anyhow, the picture which makes our eyes smile:



The tube on the front in the left was "cosmeticized" by me by removing red paint which started to fail on the base to look nicer. It can be seen before in the other picture on the left. So yes, I HATE this red paint. I also hate the socket these use, the only advantage I can see is that you cannot put a tube wrong in the adapter because it is asymetrical, otherwise, nothing.

Soundwise, of course, not enough time, I barely found time to measure and pair and test and so on. I liked what I heard with EL3N with EL34 on the output, I will investigate this more. This 4 x EL3N combo is for display. This is too much for me in terms of romanticism and a kind of fake soundstage these provide. The rule of contrasts is good here, so I will try to make other combos and not use them like this.

Well, that's it for today, I have listened until now to my equipment, now I will start to listen to music. But first I'll make something with these to fix the signature, so one of the pairs has to go.

PS. I've read about some Tungsram EL3N on these threads, at other amplifier builder, but the people who tried them definitely prefer the Philips, so I guess that's it with EL3N. I am a little bit curious about EL3 (straight glass) but I will not invest a lot in these, at least not with this kind of base.

I do want to point out that the EL3N requires an enormous amount of time to burn in - something like 400 hours!
And don't bother with Tungsram made EL3N - dull and boring sounding.

 

[mordy]

You are right. I say more than this, there is no perfection. I think these are only different faces we put to our music. Most probably these are different than what the production engineer wanted, than the band wanted and even than other listeners want. But for us, at a point in time, it is the best we think we hear. After some time, this becomes boring and indeed, we start all over again. Even in time, we start to hear differently or want something else, and the same combination will not have the same effect.

I didn't want to sound discoureging at all - music gives us all tremendeous pleasure, even in situations where the sound isn't even near perfect.

 

[OctavianH]

I do want to point out that the EL3N requires an enormous amount of time to burn in - something like 400 hours!
And don't bother with Tungsram made EL3N - dull and boring sounding.

This means I am far away from the real potential of EL3N. I have to admit I never exceeded 60 hours with any pair (input or output). No problem, I have them here and I will continue to listen to them because there is something I like about them. Thanks for letting me know about this, I never read about such long burn in for EL3N even if I read almost everything I found about them.

 

[triod750]

And don't bother with Tungsram made EL3N - dull and boring sounding.

Maybe they just need 4000 hours of burn in? Try it - you might like it!