[Isaacc7]

I had some unpleasant surprises lately, this time related to D8000 Pro. After returning the HEDDphone TWO and receiving the full refund (by the way, HEDD are a top class company and maybe my best experience until now in terms of communication and support, they paid even for the shipping back to them which normally was my duty and refunded me in 2 days time) I decided to remain on the D8000 Pro which is the most "complete" headphone I ever had the chance to listen.

But life does not listen to your plans all the way. Two days ago my left earcup of D8000 Pro stopped functioning. I said it is "the driver" but it was the 3.5mm mother jack inside that metal body which is not very easy to reach since, well, you need to disassemble the complete earcup to be able to touch it. Not fun.



The jack is somewhere after that stupid "locking" mechanism so you do not realy have a chance of reaching it. The metal body is made from one piece. In my case the locking mechanism is not used at all because I use a custom cable which is, for me, much better than the stock one. The problem is not permanent if you keep the cable into a specific position but in time it will be come permanent, so it demands fixing and my first try would be Final, in Japan, and later to do it by myself and take some risks. Of course if they will service it out of normal warranty time and the costs will not exceed what I consider decent.

Regarding usage and how this problem has appeared, I listen to it around 12 hours / day but removing cables was done only around 40-50 times. In my view, it should not be a problem for a headphone jack with this price point. If that is a problem, what to think about the teflon sockets of my tube amplifier? But well, even one of the best built headphones in the world might develop a problem.

In the meantime, since the process will take a while, I decided to make another try in adding a back-up headphone to my collection. So here we are, in the point where I bought a pair of Hifiman HE1000se. Not because it is better, more because it was cheaper, different and I had 36 months warranty at a local dealer if I'll ever decide to keep it. I use headphones heavily so you know, 3 years for me are more than average usage.



I also "fixed" the D8000 Pro temporarily but of course, not a solution. So after I see what the manufacturers tells me I'll have to obtain a final solution. But in the meantime I have some time to play with the wonder of "chi-fi" world called HE1000se.



I put directly the Forza AudioWorks Noir Hybrid cable to be sure that I am not loosing time with other cables. On every headphone I liked this was, after several tries, my last choice so I think it would be ok also for this one. If not, I have a few another options here since both D8000 Pro and HE1000se have the same 3.5mm connectors. So cables are not a problem for me.

Being a very different headphone in terms of signature, I do not want to form an opinion before a few days of usage, but I will say one thing: gone are the days of natural and organic sound with lifelike bass reproduction. This one sounds metallic for me compared to D8000 Pro and build quality is also much below, but this was not a surprise for me.

This change of headphones will affect my activities because I doubt this one reacts so good to tube rolling like the D8000 Pro. Neither of my previous headphones was so good in showing you nuances of different tubes, so in my view this one will not match that unique quality of D8000 Pro as being a "chameleon". But it's resolving, fast and decently comfy.

PS. Another strange result I had these days is related to the Tung-Sol 6SL7 I had problems on Eternity a few weeks back. On tube tester works fine and measures the same. So, I cannot understand what happened. I'll investigate more.

I had not thought about it before but it makes sense that headphones would be prone to damage. Anything that gets moved around is at risk. Over a lifetime troubleshooting as part of my job I always suspect cables first whenever there is a problem. Whether it is audio, photography strobes, or computer stuff, the cables are always the most likely things to fail on you. Now that I'm dealing with phones I do see port issues more and more.

I bought a pair of HD600 to use with my synths. I doubt I will ever pay more than that for headphones, cables, etc. Now you've given me another reason to curb my purchase prices!

 

[OctavianH]

I bought a pair of HD600 to use with my synths. I doubt I will ever pay more than that for headphones, cables, etc. Now you've given me another reason to curb my purchase prices!

H600 was a good headphone, I had one many years ago and I respect it. Many praise recently the 660S2 but I have no idea how that sounds.

I think I understand what is my main problem with HE1000se, and that one is "timbre". It's very technical and extended but does sound artificial. Feels cheap and sounds artificial. I think this is unacceptable in the price range they sell it. Honestly. And I do not think these will improve in time. I tried it with several cables, several tubes. No match for D8000 Pro and even if they are very different, there are problems which I think are above the signature. Coherence, naturalness, detail presented in a relaxed way but still there. I cannot hear anything more than I already know, I just hear it brighter and in an unnatural way. I think I'll return these, I really wanted to like them and change my opinion about Hifiman but well... not yet.

 

[Isaacc7]

H600 was a good headphone, I had one many years ago and I respect it. Many praise recently the 660S2 but I have no idea how that sounds.

I think I understand what is my main problem with HE1000se, and that one is "timbre". It's very technical and extended but does sound artificial. Feels cheap and sounds artificial. I think this is unacceptable in the price range they sell it. Honestly. And I do not think these will improve in time. I tried it with several cables, several tubes. No match for D8000 Pro and even if they are very different, there are problems which I think are above the signature. Coherence, naturalness, detail presented in a relaxed way but still there. I cannot hear anything more than I already know, I just hear it brighter and in an unnatural way. I think I'll return these, I really wanted to like them and change my opinion about Hifiman but well... not yet.

Timbre, soundstage, and "naturalness" are three of my top requirements for transducers for me. Detail is only important to me in that it allows me to hear the space things were recorded in. Soundstage depth is directly related to detail retrieval. My current speakers are pretty good at all of them but not excellent in any of them. The price of speakers goes up dramatically as you get excellence in any given area. Plus you have to have the right room and that is even more expensive.

I don't think it's possible for headphones of any price to achieve the sound staging I value even as compared to just OK speakers. Along with that, accurate timbre divorced from realistic placement gives me an uncanny valley sensation. Having "accurate" timbre inside my head or just outside of it always feels artificial to me. It isn't so bad with multi-track studio recordings but my real enjoyment is typically stereo recordings of acoustic performances. The HD600 is strictly for hearing the sounds of my synths and so there's never any hope for a soundstage as such. Once you put it through reverb though, the spaciousness of speakers wins out. It's also debatable what an accurate timbre of those instruments even means since the only produce voltages not sounds.

 

[OctavianH]

Timbre, soundstage, and "naturalness" are three of my top requirements for transducers for me.

Maybe I have a problem, when everyone praises these on every forum, but for me lacked realism. Just put back my D8000 Pro on my head and it's music. HE1000se was just a good planar, technical, those guys with graphs are happy most probably measuring that one. Filled the retour form, all is packed in original box. Good bye HE1000se.

I don't think it's possible for headphones of any price to achieve the sound staging I value even as compared to just OK speakers.

I think you might have a nice surprise with HEDDphone TWO. That one is different than any headphone I ever heard. So you might like it.

 

[Isaacc7]

Maybe I have a problem, when everyone praises these on every forum, but for me lacked realism. Just put back my D8000 Pro on my head and it's music. HE1000se was just a good planar, technical, those guys with graphs are happy most probably measuring that one. Filled the retour form, all is packed in original box. Good bye HE1000se.

I think you might have a nice surprise with HEDDphone TWO. That one is different than any headphone I ever heard. So you might like it.

Eh, not willing to spend the money to solve a problem I don't have. I will keep it in mind if I ever am in a situation where I can't use my speakers.

 

[OctavianH]

This morning took me half an hour to fix my headphones. So now every song I listen is a blessing for me. True hi-fi quality guys, obtained with a toothpick:

I tried to see more inside the metal unibody, it seems that jack, made of some kind of plastic, is fixed upon a small green PCB. I guess it's soldered but I cannot see for sure. And the jack started to move inside that metal body, I guess the PCB broke or something. It behaves exactly the same with original or custom cables so... not cable dependant. But, what to say, I admit I might have caused this using a cable without proprietary locking mechanism. Forza AudioWorks were not able to obtain the "proprietary" jack from Final so they used longer 3.5mm to pass over it. And in time, and a few cable exchanges, the problem appeared. In short, they put a plastic jack into a tank and now I have to completely disassemble to be able to fix it. Japanese people, geniouses but still they complicate things. They made the best headphone in the world and failed at a headphone jack. Knowing them, I expect even the jack is something proprietary and costs 500 EUR. LOL Anyway, until I find out exactly if they fix it out of warranty and what are the costs involved, I'll never touch that cable again as long as it works. If costs are unreal, I'll decide to fix it by myself.

But my experience with HE1000se and D8000 put 1:1 yesterday made me think a little bit about the last 10 years. First 1-2 years I've run for details and clarity. That can be easily achieved. Newer and more expensive models are ususally better performers. You know, graphs and technicalities. I think the last 8 years were the run for naturalness and efortless sound, closer to realism. For sure, more expensive equipment was also a progress on technical side but it was not the main goal. That is the real fight, to forget about equipment and be able to focus into the music. And for me, even if I haven't understood it at those earlier points in time, the tighter connection to music is when you hear it closer to reality or the old analogue systems many of us had in our homes in the past. That is my reference, and everyone has a reference. So it's not about detail or frequency range or whatever. When you care about those you care about equipment. When you pass over those you listen to music. And in music number does not matter, nor graphs. Of course, realism comes after you reach a decent level with your system. At first you fight noise and entry level cheap equipment with technical limitations. So I guess, for me, the biggest quality of D8000 Pro with this FAW cable and EL50/EBL1 (or EL3N) is naturalness and realism. The rest are details, people with graphs and tables can explain, I leave this to them. And this is the final level of synergy, between pieces of equipment (cables, headphones, tubes) and the final and most important element, your brain. This is why I am not sure that my system will please anyone without a brain transfer. For sure it pleases me. But nobody can tell if my brain is right or wrong.

As a conclusion, the worst news, nobody can tell you what are the best choices for your headphone line. If you really want to reach a breakthrough you have to search by yourself. Of course, you can guide you by what others are doing but the chance to reach the maximum potential of the line is limited. And never judge equipment by its price. There are things which are important and do not reflect the selling price. Especially for tubes. If you want famous tubes you will pay a lot, if you want those who sound real to you and your preferred music you might take them almost for free. Are they better? No, there is no better or worse once you reach a level. For you they are the heaven and earth.

My problem with HE1000se was that I was not able to connect to music. It was most probably the most detailed headphone I have heard (here they also trick you with the tuning enforcing highs which add sharpness and make you think you hear more details), it was arguably the faster and tighter bass I have ever heard. Separation was incredible, comfort was good. But it was sounding like a planar. The best one I had the chance to listen. D8000 Pro does not sound like anything, nor dynamic, nor planar, maybe in the middle, maybe something else. But the music was flowing and involving you. You felt emotion, not music reproduction. This is why I could not listen anymore to HE1000se, I was in a showroom, not at home. I was listening to equipment not music.

 

[triod750]

In the end, you have to find your own way for your own needs.

 

[OctavianH]

Everyone knows what is better for themselves. People enjoying such bright headphones built their lines on warm fat components (R2R DACs and old school tube amps) and on top of those ones such a headphone might sound fine, being masked by the rest of the line and providing an impression of more resolution. I built mine trying to remain as close to neutral as I can from the DAC and AMP side and to "color" the sound only via warmer tubes. In rest I have only silver cabling and so on. In my view my system is more transparent than a warm built one. But this is debatable. I consider D8000 Pro a warm sounding headphone with some very special qualities, solid state guys are consider it neutral. So everything is subjective. Every time I tried to deviate from my principles of building this line I have failed (copper interconnects, copper USB, R2R DAC and so on). This is my way, and most probably my results are tailored by it. According to my experiments, the most natural coloration of sound comes from the proper tubes and not from the rest of the chain. Cables and so on veil, the proper tubes enrich. Of course, I might be wrong. Most probably my system measures terribly and the graph guys will be terrified. I do not care, I smile because it sounds as I want.

 

[Whazzzup]

the only conclusion i have come to with this hobby, is you are your only listener, anyone else is someone else listening. keep the chain simple and spend the most on what you put in, music server or source, and what you get out. the amp/tubes. the dac and headphones will scale to majestic beauty on their own. but imo ymmv

 

[OctavianH]

the only conclusion i have come to with this hobby, is you are your only listener, anyone else is someone else listening. keep the chain simple and spend the most on what you put in, music server or source, and what you get out. the amp/tubes. the dac and headphones will scale to majestic beauty on their own. but imo ymmv

I agree. Source is problematic for me and I work to improve it. Regarding about keeping it simple, I am far away from that: DAC + Upscaler + linear power sources + power filtering and so on. Nothing is simple on that. Ah, and the plan is to go coax/optical to remove USB from the equation. I have failed at simplicity. You have a good point and I will think on it.

 

[triod750]

I have failed at simplicity.

 

[hpamdr]

In the end, you have to find your own way for your own needs.

Yep sir...
This is mainly why I still use T1, HD650 and K701

 

[triod750]

Yep sir...
This is mainly why I still use T1, HD650 and K701

And I use a s/h pair of HD650 with Zu Mobius cable...
The rest has to adjust.

 

[hpamdr]

And I use a s/h pair of HD650 with Zu Mobius cable...
The rest has to adjust.

I also have a modded HD650 with balanced câble... But only using it from time to time....
@OctavianH in your comparison, one is open and another is closed (you overuse) everyday. What I can say about HE1000se, it was on my short list and when I listened to them on hifi shop, this was not my cup of tea. It sounded best with the music I do not listen (electro and most of the digitally post produced music). I'm pretty sure Octavian, that it sounded a bit weird with 70 Hard rock.. I was most pleased with the HeedPhone gen 1 which I listened at home (I one directly from Heed with a 15 day full refund if not satisfied).
It seems that from th reviews, the latest Yamaha flagship could be very close to what you have with D8000.

I've almost stopped to renew my materials as new tube give me a brand new amplifier... I was listening a lot 6av6 tube. (I had to build adapters twice..)The latest strange tube I got is VT135 just need time to build a pair of adapters...

 

[OctavianH]

@OctavianH in your comparison, one is open and another is closed (you overuse) everyday.

D8000 Pro is open back.

What I can say about HE1000se, it was on my short list and when I listened to them on hifi shop, this was not my cup of tea. It sounded best with the music I do not listen (electro and most of the digitally post produced music).

I agree. I have not tried electro or synth based music, but I agree that what I have heard might suit that kind of music. Not my type of music either.

It seems that from th reviews, the latest Yamaha flagship could be very close to what you have with D8000.

It's an idea above what I would pay for a headphone, and hard to find in Europe. But I look at Austrian Audio The Composer.