That's why I always report after I buy a box.Prices go crazy when people report good result on forums.
Tube rolling thread | UltraSonic Studios
- Thread starter OctavianH
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Isaacc7
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Oh? Has your reporting caused a spike?Prices go crazy when people report good result on forums
I have no idea, but better safe than sorry
Isaacc7
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I'll admit to doing this as well lol.
Do not worry, you are not alone. There's a whole industry there and I've started to uncover a part of it. There are guys buying boxes, making them shinny reselling them piece by piece as NOS. Some of them buy on some platform then resell on other. A whole industry working in the shade. LOL
After 3 days with Tung-Sol it was my time to try Ken-Rad 6K6. These are branded as Crosley but have also 188-5. Construction is identical with my Ken-Rad branded ones.
These are more euphonic than Tung-Sol, an idea more fuzzy but still pleasant to listen. More relaxed. Tung-Sol 6SL7 grey glass remains a very good pair for both and I guess I'll keep it for the whole 6K6 bunch to be able to compare something. Both these pairs measure over 95% so for me are NOS without problems. Good that they also sound nice. After days spent with these I consider 6K6 intimate sounding, emotional, but from time to time I would prefer a larger soundstage. Also the 3D placement is relatively restricted. When I think about EL50 there is a big difference in this regard. Anyway, good sounding tubes. For my personal musical taste, Tung-Sol sounds more focused and I guess also more dynamic, so I'll put those on top of these in my preference list. But of course, more drama in piano, strings and so on. By chance I was listening to the latest Myrkur album which has a lot of folk/symphonic passages where I can evaluate these in other areas than what I usually listen.
These are more euphonic than Tung-Sol, an idea more fuzzy but still pleasant to listen. More relaxed. Tung-Sol 6SL7 grey glass remains a very good pair for both and I guess I'll keep it for the whole 6K6 bunch to be able to compare something. Both these pairs measure over 95% so for me are NOS without problems. Good that they also sound nice. After days spent with these I consider 6K6 intimate sounding, emotional, but from time to time I would prefer a larger soundstage. Also the 3D placement is relatively restricted. When I think about EL50 there is a big difference in this regard. Anyway, good sounding tubes. For my personal musical taste, Tung-Sol sounds more focused and I guess also more dynamic, so I'll put those on top of these in my preference list. But of course, more drama in piano, strings and so on. By chance I was listening to the latest Myrkur album which has a lot of folk/symphonic passages where I can evaluate these in other areas than what I usually listen.
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But since things are clear with Ken-Rad I was very curious to listen to Sylvania black glass. This is because I never heard a "black glass" made by Sylvania. Most probably they never produced one. So, put those and honestly, I hear no difference. I have no elf ears but these sound for me in the same way. Now, I put one near the other and let you drag conclusions.
And both these "Crosley" and "Sylvania" identical with this one:
So well, for me all these 3 are similar looking and sounding. And Sylvania clear glass are identical with Philco branded ones. So not so many in the end, reducing types by this kind of approach.
So, I've done no big deal here, my only chance of hearing something different would be to try some Sylvania/Philco. Found the Philco first.
And yes, these are indeed different and more... towards Sylvania. Brighter, airier, more sterile somehow. Well, these seem to be Sylvania. And well, then I saw the "312" code which made me be convinced about that. This is the Sylvania branded one, identical with these:
Yeap, cool. So from my findings Ken-Rad = Crosley = Sylvania black glass and Philco = Sylvania clear glass. Less variations. No problem, we have enough to choose from. I guess I'll put some of these to storage just to make some space here.
And both these "Crosley" and "Sylvania" identical with this one:
So well, for me all these 3 are similar looking and sounding. And Sylvania clear glass are identical with Philco branded ones. So not so many in the end, reducing types by this kind of approach.
So, I've done no big deal here, my only chance of hearing something different would be to try some Sylvania/Philco. Found the Philco first.
And yes, these are indeed different and more... towards Sylvania. Brighter, airier, more sterile somehow. Well, these seem to be Sylvania. And well, then I saw the "312" code which made me be convinced about that. This is the Sylvania branded one, identical with these:
Yeap, cool. So from my findings Ken-Rad = Crosley = Sylvania black glass and Philco = Sylvania clear glass. Less variations. No problem, we have enough to choose from. I guess I'll put some of these to storage just to make some space here.
Are these Ken-Rad from before or after GE bought Ken-Rad?
After 1945 when, as far as I know, GE bought Ken-Rad. Crosley pair have 6-09 and 6-48 (1946). Both have 188-5 (Owensboro, KY factory) so GE identifier. As far as I know from 45-52 tubes were still labelled Ken-Rad and sounded in the Ken-Rad style and later went more to GE style. These sound definitely in the Ken-Rad style.
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Today I put a little bit to work the RCA 6K6GT grey glass pair. This is one of the lowest measuring pairs I have. Both around 70%. Works without problems but well, not NOS. No problem, if a tube was used it's for me at least the proof that it worked at a point in time. Some never used ones might be problematic. LOL
Soundwise as expected, smooth with good bass and not as fuzzy as Ken-Rad. But all these RCA grey glass tubes have a kind of veil. It's the same as an old pair of VT-231 I had some years ago. Anyway, good sounding. But I plan to stop with 6K6 and take a break, to go towards EL41. This is a left over from the past I wanted several times to try.
Soundwise as expected, smooth with good bass and not as fuzzy as Ken-Rad. But all these RCA grey glass tubes have a kind of veil. It's the same as an old pair of VT-231 I had some years ago. Anyway, good sounding. But I plan to stop with 6K6 and take a break, to go towards EL41. This is a left over from the past I wanted several times to try.
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I delayed several times EL41, I was lazy to pair, to clean, what to say more. These old energetic tubes like this one with relatively high gain and gm are not fun to measure either. My device is something very basic, bought to pair and check a little bit health but not to perform very precise measurement. Of course, is most probably as good as those old testers where those guys are looking on a cartoon card where it says "good" or "bad" to a relatively large range of emission. Some of them most probabily not calibrated, or some measurements unclear in terms of parameters used. Anyway, measuring these is not fun, you barely touch the grid bias trimmer and currents jump quite a lot (S=10mA/V). Of course, I might not be the best trained person to perform these, but I am the best around here. For me a "good" tube lights and a "bad" one does not.
So I made me 3 pairs. Some of them very cool.
The 2 pairs from left have disc getters and X-code. The first one is M43/XB and M43/X9 while the one from middle has one code almost deleted, but the other is SLF/XR. Contruction is identical, on the other I see an S and something but I was not able to decypher all of it. The pair from right, Dario, is M44/+-3F2 with ring getter on top, so La Radiotechnique, Chartres. I am not under estimating it because with this gain and energetic presentation of EL41 (which reminds me of EL84 and it's normal, as far as I know EL84 followed it) might be very good sounding.
But of course, we had to start with the metal base. Very nice looking tube.
I put the Fivre 6SL7, this is my first choice because I know it very well and goes well with many, but here 6SL7 is no good choice. Too much gain, volume knob around 25%, and also a little bit too energetic. Bass is excellent, punchy, articulated, everything everyone writes about it, and if I am not wrong goes a little bit lower than on my WIRAG EL84 but I will not say too much about sound now, it's too early.
I guess I need to treat these with respect and put some ECC40 on input. Lower gain and a much older and rich tube. I know many used these in input because of the gain, but honestly rated at 9W, this is for me an output tube. So I doubt I'll every try this in input, even if I had this in mind. A very musical and energetic tube, also very rich as texture because of its age. I doubt EL84 can beat it on Eternity, it can, most probably, at higher ratings or more powerful amplifiers, but here EL41 is perfect.
So let's try Philips X-code ECC40 on input and EL41 on output.
Volume knob is now where it has to be, around 11-12 o'clock. Bass remained exceptional, but the overal signature went an idea more vivid. ECC40 is exceptional and it seems I finally paired with something worth of its value. I love what I'm hearing, but I will need time for these.
So I made me 3 pairs. Some of them very cool.
The 2 pairs from left have disc getters and X-code. The first one is M43/XB and M43/X9 while the one from middle has one code almost deleted, but the other is SLF/XR. Contruction is identical, on the other I see an S and something but I was not able to decypher all of it. The pair from right, Dario, is M44/+-3F2 with ring getter on top, so La Radiotechnique, Chartres. I am not under estimating it because with this gain and energetic presentation of EL41 (which reminds me of EL84 and it's normal, as far as I know EL84 followed it) might be very good sounding.
But of course, we had to start with the metal base. Very nice looking tube.
I put the Fivre 6SL7, this is my first choice because I know it very well and goes well with many, but here 6SL7 is no good choice. Too much gain, volume knob around 25%, and also a little bit too energetic. Bass is excellent, punchy, articulated, everything everyone writes about it, and if I am not wrong goes a little bit lower than on my WIRAG EL84 but I will not say too much about sound now, it's too early.
I guess I need to treat these with respect and put some ECC40 on input. Lower gain and a much older and rich tube. I know many used these in input because of the gain, but honestly rated at 9W, this is for me an output tube. So I doubt I'll every try this in input, even if I had this in mind. A very musical and energetic tube, also very rich as texture because of its age. I doubt EL84 can beat it on Eternity, it can, most probably, at higher ratings or more powerful amplifiers, but here EL41 is perfect.
So let's try Philips X-code ECC40 on input and EL41 on output.
Volume knob is now where it has to be, around 11-12 o'clock. Bass remained exceptional, but the overal signature went an idea more vivid. ECC40 is exceptional and it seems I finally paired with something worth of its value. I love what I'm hearing, but I will need time for these.
It seems the other pairs of EL41 will have to wait. The current combination is too good to be removed, at least not today.
And it seems I was not the only one who paired EL41 with ECC40.
And it seems I was not the only one who paired EL41 with ECC40.
Designsfx
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@OctavianH
You have too much going on to keep up with! So I’d like to ask as I’m thinking of trying these smaller pentodes in my Lampizator dac. Of all that you’ve tried which do you feel produces the most open midrange without a harsh treble response while still providing a solid impactful low end?
I’m curious to see if the smaller 7/9 pin tube varieties can provide bring more to the table than the larger pentodes as the dac doesn’t seem to be driving the tube to its full potential anyway. I know this doesn’t relate to amps but what are your thoughts?
You have too much going on to keep up with! So I’d like to ask as I’m thinking of trying these smaller pentodes in my Lampizator dac. Of all that you’ve tried which do you feel produces the most open midrange without a harsh treble response while still providing a solid impactful low end?
I’m curious to see if the smaller 7/9 pin tube varieties can provide bring more to the table than the larger pentodes as the dac doesn’t seem to be driving the tube to its full potential anyway. I know this doesn’t relate to amps but what are your thoughts?
It seems the other pairs of EL41 will have to wait. The current combination is too good to be removed, at least not today.
And it seems I was not the only one who paired EL41 with ECC40.
All you need for love!
From all the small pentodes I have tried I think the best bass you obtain with EL81, EL84, EL41 (EL41 is for me a kind of EL84, signature being similar, it's just older and has a more euhponic and coherent presentation than the EL84 I have tried) or EL42. While EL81 is quite cheap nowadays, EL84 is more expensive and EL41 or EL42 are much more rare. Therefore I would advise you to start with a pair of Mullard EL81. For example a pair like this:
This is a B-code Mullard made EL81 (Md3/B8L3) and in my view it has good bass while it smoothens an idea the midrange. I think it might be a good choice if your Lampizator can use it (I have no idea what voltages and bias you have there).
For me ECC40, EL41, EL42 are somehow similar, very rich and vivid sounding tubes, but the problem of them is that they might sound an idea congested because of that. I am not good describer of what I hear but I can compare them with a super exposed photo. All colors are very intense but the whole image might be an idea too exagerated. I like a lot this kind of sound, but when I am thinking about a recommendation I try to be objective. My amp is neutral tuned, with low distortion and this kind of rich signature is very good to make it sound more holographic, but other equipment might not benefit from this kind of signature.
All these small pentodes are an idea less airier than the bigger glass tubes. And usually if you obtain a more airy presentation you definitely loose a little bit on the bass area. Or this is what I have experienced here in my trials. Another good option would be EL90/6AQ5 which, in my view, close to what you request are:
- Csf/Thomson 6005 (higher reliability version of 6AQ5/EL90):
- Ediswan EL90 black glass:
These are the best in my view and also close to what I see you are searching for, but of course, might sound very different on your DAC. So check if these have the ratings you need and also if others are hearing them in the same way.
Well, as everyone I started looking to the famous tubes when I first got a tube amplifier. Everyone was raving about 5998, KT88, EL34. So I went a path of "spend more/get less" and bought many of these very expensive tubes. During the time I understood that unknown tubes are usually providing a bigger value because the price of the tube is strictly a measure of the fame it has in certain circles. In short, some tubes were expensive because certain promoters used them with success and then advised them to others. This was the point I realized that I need a much more flexible amp where I can use everything and decide for myself what I like or not. Here the path went to "spend less/get more" because the tubes I have tried were much cheaper and I got the chance to try several types spending a fraction of the others. At that point I also started to get rid of the expensive ones and reinvest a part of that in newer types. I also found that for a simple headphone amplifier like mine which has manual grid bias at 200V/20mA on the output stage I do not really need highly rated tubes to obtain a good sound. So I focused on tubes with ratings around max 250Vplate, >6W plate dissipation and so on. Basically what could be used safely at 200V/20mA and it is cheap enough to be bought. My amp uses these triode strapped.
Now to answer to your question: small 7/9 pin tubes will not necessarily surpass the bigger tubes in terms of lower frequency reproduction or soundstage, but might provide an alternate sound which you will like. In my view many of these are sweeter sounding variants of the former bigger glass ones. Sounding maybe more "intimate" while still being a very good alternative for some of the older bigger ones. In general, I think all are sounding less harsh in midrange than their older eqivalents (maybe less distortion?).
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