Tube rolling thread | UltraSonic Studios
Sep 25, 2022 at 9:31 AM Post #1,876 of 3,843
You were lucky but do not try this too often. Your 6BL7 was heavily used and this is why you were able to use it at around 70% of the datasheet specs. But this is not always the case. For short periods of time I guess it is fine (you stop the amp if you see that the current raises too much and that's it) but look at this 6SL7 graph. We would need around -0.7V for 3mA. Right?

1664084181727.png

Well, check one of my Fivre when measured. I have here 2 situations I want to show you. First, the tube is above 100% (according to datasheet) because it has 3mA at around -1V (30% above?) and it is also unbalanced internally. When I set on my amp -1V grid bias one of the triodes goes to 2.6ma while the other is around 3.7mA.

1664084293290.png

And you can see that for around -0.1V I have a variation of 0.2mA. This delta parameter can vary and I know it has a name, but I am a noob and forgot it. Doesn't matter, numbers speak for themselves. In short words, what I am trying to say is, never think "has to work with +2V of bias because the trimmer does not go so low or it worked once". And always check both channels, this Fivre on one channel might have 4mA and on the other 5.1ma but there are worse scenarios.

And another thing that I have learned during time while measuring these, is that it is no rule that a tube which measured 100% at a specific seller (if he tells the truth LOL) will be at 100% in our amps. Because they measure in specific conditions, taken from datasheets and measurement's device manual while we use them in totally different conditions. We would expect a linear variation with plate voltage? Well, I had surprises. Tube measured perfectly according to the datasheet was not as expected at 180V and so on. And this discussion might go more and more into what means 100%, what means matched pair and so on. For me nothing, except 2-3 persons I trust and from which I buy with confidence, the rest we measure and put in a box if does not work as expected or sell to people with automatic bias. I bought tubes measuring 70% from Langrex as "NOS", and electrically matched in tolerance of 15% and was told it's fine.

Later edit: For output tubes I use exactly the same method to determine the grid bias, I just look at "Triode connection graph" because outputs are triode strapped on the amp. So same stuff, just be careful to search for the proper graphs otherwise things might go crazy (this is valid only for Eternity).

Later edit 2: I went to people smarter than me here and learned that the parameter I was mentioning is the gm (transconductance, this case ratio but anyway).

1664086499927.png
Somebody said that tube testers are only good in telling if a tube is bad but not for measuring tubes…
 
Sep 25, 2022 at 7:54 PM Post #1,877 of 3,843
Thanks again for your help Octa and Tomas. I actually had no memory of the output tubes handling being changed to 400v but I've taken note. Took me until just yesterday to learn how to read the simple graphs, anything more than that may be a challenge. In my school days I could still never grasp pre-algebra after two full semesters, one of my mental handicaps as a special-ed student. Ironically I am brilliant with schematics in relation to audio signal processing as a sound design artist / producer.

Actually it turns out -10.6v was the perfect staring point for 6BL7 on my amp. I have 4x mint condition nearly NOS 6BL7 tubes with two lettering variations, and all needed at least 3-5 half turns of the milti-turn trimmer to finally get up to at least 3mA on the meters. I'm still staying closer to 3mA to not push it too much. They have (one at a time) been performing solidly with no part of the amp overheating, even with multi-hour sessions and a movie. The sound I'm getting is vivid, full, sweet, weighty and a downright sublime first class experience. The pairing with EL38 output tubes is really special! EL39 are aplomb also and darker.

Now to rustle another feather... I checked the brand and of these are all GE. I guess even GE can sound good sometimes.
 
Sep 25, 2022 at 9:46 PM Post #1,878 of 3,843
Per the other recommended lower gain input tubes. Cathode adjustment needed is specific to my amp.

6BX7: would need around -18v but mine only goes to -10.6v so I better skip this one.
BL63 This tube looks nice but I couldn't find any curves for it on the datasheet. I also checked equivalents CV1102 and VR102. They're costly though.
76 & 37 tubes: around -10v for me. Wow those look great and are available. I will probably get two 76 to 6J5 adapters.
5687: around -10.6v perfect, but I would need a special adapter. Any recommendations for miniature tubes compatible with the E80CC (12A*7) or E88CC (6DJ8) pinout with lower than 20 gain? I have adapters for those types.
12BH7(A): -9v. Here's a miniature tube I came across with a gain factor of 16. According to the equivalents it looks like it's compatible with E80CC which is intriguing since it's a 6v tube(?)
 
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Sep 25, 2022 at 9:52 PM Post #1,879 of 3,843
Per the other recommended lower gain input tubes. Cathode adjustment needed is specific to my amp.

6BX7: would need around -18v but mine only goes to -10.6v so I better skip this one.
BL63 This tube looks nice but I couldn't find any curves for it on the datasheet. I also checked equivalents CV1102 and VR102. They're costly though.
76 & 31 tubes: around -10v for me. Wow those look great and are available. I will probably get two 76 to 6J5 adapters.
5687: around -10.6v perfect, but I would need a special adapter. Any recommendations for miniature tubes compatible with the E80CC (12A*7) or E88CC (6DJ8) pinout with lower than 20 gain? I have adapters for those types.
12BH7(A): -9v. Here's a miniature tube I came across with a gain factor of 16. According to the equivalents it looks like it's compatible with E80CC which is intriguing since it's a 6v tube(?)
You could also look for a 6ah7 or 7ah7. Same tube, different base. You'd need an adapter for either one. Not as common as the 12v versions but not too expensive when you find them. Mu of 16.
 
Sep 25, 2022 at 10:06 PM Post #1,880 of 3,843
Per the other recommended lower gain input tubes. Cathode adjustment needed is specific to my amp.


5687: around -10.6v perfect, but I would need a special adapter. Any recommendations for miniature tubes compatible with the E80CC (12A*7) or E88CC (6DJ8) pinout with lower than 20 gain? I have adapters for those types.

ECC804 has gain of 18. In the Glenn OTL it sounded a lot like a pair of C3g to me (minus the metalic tinged treble). Uses the same adapter as a 6922/ECC80 (I believe).

@gibosi turned me on to this tube. It is a goodie...there are examples by Mazda and by GEC (both appear to have been made in the same factory)?
Not expensive, most commonly found in the UK (and the pound is way way down right now).

A quick look at the curves, it appears it will be right in your "sweet spot" range of cathode bias perfection...

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abo0077.htm

:)
 
Sep 26, 2022 at 2:03 AM Post #1,881 of 3,843
The 31 tube uses the same pin out so you could use them as well as the 76 with the same adapters. Both the 76 and 31 also have the benefit of being pretty cheap as well.
Are you sure the 31 & 76 tubes can use the same adapter? I'm having a custom adapter made to 6J5, but he said the sockets are different. Is it just that the 31 has less pins?
 
Sep 26, 2022 at 11:54 AM Post #1,882 of 3,843
Are you sure the 31 & 76 tubes can use the same adapter? I'm having a custom adapter made to 6J5, but he said the sockets are different. Is it just that the 31 has less pins?

Your adapter maker is correct. The 31 will not work in the same socket as the 76. But I think it is a typo. Instead of 31, it should be 37.
 
Sep 26, 2022 at 2:08 PM Post #1,883 of 3,843
Your adapter maker is correct. The 31 will not work in the same socket as the 76. But I think it is a typo. Instead of 31, it should be 37.
Your adapter maker is correct. The 31 will not work in the same socket as the 76. But I think it is a typo. Instead of 31, it should be 37.
Whoops! You're so right. Sorry about that!
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 11:29 PM Post #1,884 of 3,843
ECC804 has gain of 18. In the Glenn OTL it sounded a lot like a pair of C3g to me (minus the metalic tinged treble). Uses the same adapter as a 6922/ECC80 (I believe).

@gibosi turned me on to this tube. It is a goodie...there are examples by Mazda and by GEC (both appear to have been made in the same factory)?
Not expensive, most commonly found in the UK (and the pound is way way down right now).

A quick look at the curves, it appears it will be right in your "sweet spot" range of cathode bias perfection...

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abo0077.htm

:)
The ECC804 has the same pinout as the 6DJ8 family. The 6CG7 also has this pinout, so an adapter that says 6CG7 to 6SN7 will work.
There are inexpensive Chinese adapters available but Deyan will make one of better quality. On the other hand you probably already have this kind of adapter.
 
Sep 30, 2022 at 1:38 PM Post #1,886 of 3,843
I've been incredibly busy recently but this weekend I managed to find equilibrium. So, we prepare for an evening with Eternity.

Eternity.jpg


And the way my beer pint looks at my headphones is like:

1664559425412.png
 
Sep 30, 2022 at 3:11 PM Post #1,888 of 3,843
Can you tell what kind of (exotic) tubes you are using? And what the beer is looking at?
Absolutely, there is nothing exotic there. I use a pair of GEC ATS25 for output and a Telefunken ECC801S for input (the one in the middle). The 2 GEC L63 (6J5) are just for looks since my input selector is set to double triode. These GEC ATS25 are seen by many as a premium version of 807, a tube I am fully proud of. The Telefunken ECC801S is a type of 12AT7 I like a lot for clarity and high frequency extension. It pairs very well with the GEC full bodied sound provided by the ATS25. The headphones are Final Audio D8000 Pro. These are my end game, I have sold all my headphones since I have bought these. I am fully convinced I might find something better, but at a much higher price (Susvara or maybe 1266 TC) but I do not need more. These are the ones I was looking for since I was born :)
 
Sep 30, 2022 at 3:14 PM Post #1,890 of 3,843
What is the unit under Eternity? Your layout at the end of the table was where I had mine before. It's now on racks for me. To free up space for another monitor and my printer.
Under Eternity I have a Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport. I am not using it a lot lately so I might renounce on it. It was intended for CD playback but... I listen mostly to my digital collection.
 

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