[pigmode]

Thanks all, even Tim

.
I won't be going back to the Melos, which I enjoyed very much I must say. The sound I am after is the purely euphonic sound of an all tube amp that will work with these low impedance phones. I'm on mission. Or...maybe I'm not.

 

[smokey]

Pigmode,

I have used my 2002 with a Cary SLI-80 to quite good results. Though I too think it sounds best with the Sugden, you might like the Cary stuff.

Although most Cary equipment is quite expensive, even used, if you look through Audiogon some of their older pre-amps had headphone outlets and are fairly inexpensive. (SLP-94?)

Although if money is no object you might look for one of the integrateds using either the 300b or 2A3 tube.

Additionally, the Wheatfield HA-1 is supposed to be friendly to low impedence cans. That might be another way to go. Obviously Headroom will give you 30-days to see if you like them. Only your ears can tell for sure.

Good luck!

 

[markl]

Smokey--
You have a Cary SLI-80??????? My ideal is to get a CAD300SEI for my R10's. You are a prime candidate for the R10s, and there's no escaping it. Find a way and do it!!!

Mark

 

[millerdog]

Pigmode,
Did you take a look at those space tech amps? I think they were around the same price as an Ear Max Pro.
There were some nice things said about the guys pre amps on AA
there are some pics of them in the amp sticky.
md

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Smokey-- You have a Cary SLI-80??????? My ideal is to get a CAD300SEI for my R10's. You are a prime candidate for the R10s, and there's no escaping it. Find a way and do it!!! Mark

Hi Mark,

how much is the Cary CAD 300B SEI? Here in Italy he retails a exaggerated price, but may be in USA is cheaper…
I think with the same amount (or little more) you can buy a custom amp. (like mine) that certainly will goes better even than the Cary that is not specifically built as a headphone amp after all. But I’m interested too in listening the R-10 with the Cary, but are you sure that he goes well with low imp. cans?


Nicola

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally posted by pigmode The sound I am after is the purely euphonic sound of an all tube amp that will work with these low impedance phones. I'm on mission. Or...maybe I'm not.

pigmode,

Wouldn't the Earmax Pro be a logical option? 88Sound says it's very enjoyable with both his W100 and his W2002.

 

[pigmode]

Tomcat,
I've had an Ear Max Pro want-to-buy posted for quite a while now but no offers. Actually, there were two offers and two retractions--the owners decided not to sell after contacting me and then having second thoughts. There is a 230v version available but I'm hesitant to go the transformer route, as it doesn't seem a good thing to interpose the additional circuitry into the chain.

Anyway, I'm prepared to move on. The Micro Zotl is on the new list, and I will research the Wheatfield HA-1.

BTW, I listened to the W2002 last night.

 

[The Quality Guru]

Pigmode, IMO, you may want to consider simply getting a good solid state for the W2002 (Sugden) and give up the quest for tubes; I only say this because the W2002 is said to work well only with solid state and it seems sort of silly trying to compromise the W2002's maximum performance (that it allegedly gets only with SS) simply because you want to get a tube amp. But I understand why you might want to get a tube amp after being with the quasi-tubey-sounding Melos- as the euphonic, lush "tube sound" isn't something it does best.


Quote:

Originally posted by pigmode BTW, I listened to the W2002 last night.

Please tell us about it! How did it compare to your memory of the Grado HP-1's sound?

 

[kelly]

It's too bad KurtW hasn't been replying to this thread. I've talked to him privately at length about the W2002 and he seems to be just as happy with the microZOTL as with the Sugden. From what I gather, the microZOTL is a more relaxing experience with the W2002 and I recall him describing "a woman whispering in my ear."

Of course, with the microZOTL comes a bit of a comittment to tuberoll it and from what I gather from Hirsch, it may be a little more sensitive to cables and associated equipment than other stuff, so you may not be able to decided instantly if it's going to be the right component for whatever your target system is.

I've never heard the microZOTL myself but from the way people describe it, it does seem like it'd be a good route to try. The flexibility of being able to EQ the amp a little bit with tubes could overcome any harsh treble the peakiness of the phone might hit you with initially.

This was what I disliked about the W2002/Melos SHA-1 combination and the Melos is not so sensitive to tuberolling. I'm sure the Melos can be made better with modification but I don't know that these modifications change the basic personality of the amp--and I doubt Melos fans would want that. Since pigmode seems to be even more troubled by brightness than I am, this is probably not the best one to experiment with so it's probably not such a bad thing that this one was already off the list.

With the list of demands that pigmode has, my biggest questionmark would be RKV with the impedancer. I have an impedancer on the way to me (finally) but do not have a W2002 here or anywhere near me. I do plan to immediately try out the Grado HP-1 on it, but it's a very different headphone despite having a similar impedance rating. The differences in sensitivity and frequency response might make drawing conclusions on W2002 performance based on my experience with the HP-1 premature. I say this especially because when I had the W2002, I didn't care for it on the RKV without the impedancer and far preferred my Corda HA-1 yet (after the RKV was repaired) find the HP-1 very nice on the RKV so far without the impedancer.

Pigmode's list of sonic priorities and the descriptions of the microZOTL make me think the RKV would be the better option IF the impedancer prevents the sound from becoming muddy.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Quality Guru ...I only say this because the W2002 is said to work well only with solid state and it seems sort of silly trying to compromise the W2002's maximum performance (that it allegedly gets only with SS) simply because you want to get a tube amp. Please tell us about it! How did it compare to your memory of the Grado HP-1's sound?

QG,
I'm not ready to accept that as gospel. I have a predelection to tube amps not just for the extremes of their so-called stereotypical tube characteristics, but more so for their subtle handling of micro and macro dynamics and more importantly--their sense of tonality. That said, I do have in the back of my mind three SS amps that might come into consideration sooner or later.

All I can say about the HP-1 is that I liked it a lot, and regretted not jumping at the chance of buying the one I heard. I'll post some comments on the W2002 a little later, but I can say now that they are definitely nice.

I took the liberty of hooking up my old Melos (I'm holding them for the new owner) and listened for about three hours.

Kelly,
you're right, I think the ZOTL is a prime candidate. I'd prefer the RKV, but can't justify the Impedancer on top of that.

markl,
I know its been a long time, but what are the main differences between the ZOTL and the Melos? How would you characterize their HF response?

 

[smokey]

Pigmode,

I was going to further suggest that if you're looking for the "tube sound" maybe you might want to look into a tubed CDP. Jolida, Ah Tjobe!, and Cary among others make quality equipment. However, I looked at your bio and noticed that you have a Fi X 2A3 amp already. How about sampling either the UHC Signature, or the Reference Tools from Antique Sound Labs? I believe either would allow you to use your existing speaker taps, and turn them into a headphone outlet. I've seen a few threads where folks like these for use in situations where they are happy with an amplifier that has no hp jack. The best thing is that they list for only $139 and $149 respectively. What can you lose? Try one, if you don't like it you won't lose much in resale.

 

[pigmode]

The Fi is happy where it is at--nothing and no one goes near the Fi!

I had an AH! 4000, btw. The Phillips SACD 1000 has a smoother and more refined sound.

 

[Hirsch]

I just gave ZOTL a try with W2002. I actually prefer the ZOTL to the EAR HP$ (missed the cap key, typo deliberately not corrected

) with the W2002. Tonal balance was good, and sound was reasonable. Something was missing though, and I can't quite put my finger on it. The sound seemed forced, somehow. Prime candidate for tuberolling, except I've got the ZOTL where I want it for the HP-1 and I'm not about to stray very far from that. Going back to the Fisher, you really hear the full tube effect: an effortless, natural presentation. Easier for me to listen to than the ZOTL with this headphone.

I'd love to know what tubes KurtW is using. I'm using Ken-Rad VT-231's (clear glass, staggered plates) and Sylvania 12AT7WA's (which I prefer over the Syl Gold Brand 6201). Come to think of it, now that the EAR is running the R10, I could go back to the Syl VT-231's, which may be better in the midrange than the Ken-Rad's, but give up a bit at the bottom...must resist...

I still think the Sugden is the key to the W2002.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch I still think the Sugden is the key to the W2002.

Why. Specifically what does the Sugden do for the W2002 in terms of highs, mids, tone? Sound stage is my absolutely last priority.

 

[Hirsch]

I sold my Sugden, so I can't refresh my impressions. However, IIRC, what hit me most was the natural tonal balance. My highest priority is the "foot tapping" test, in all honesty. Does the music get my foot going, get me involved? The Sugden seemed to clarify the W2002. Several characteristics of the sound, including a slight burr in the midrange, that I though were part of the headphone were gone. There was something in the amplification chain that was doing it. The bass response of the Sugden and the W2002 are perfectly matched. Bass is full and well-defined, without being overbearing. Some people describe the Sugden as being light on bass, but it wasn't with the W2002...it was just right. Highs were transparent and went all the way up...no rolloff anywhere audible. Midrange was clear, and the nuances of the recordings all came through. It was just plain fun to listen to. Seductive when the music was seductive, smooth when the recording was smooth, grating when the music was grating. I don't have any amps that give me that with the W2002 as well as the Sugden did. The Fisher does it in a different way, with a classic tube sound. It's clearly not neutral, but it doesn't matter. Pure seduction. The ZOTL isn't hitting that with the E2002, and is falling somewhere between where the Fisher is and where the Sugden was...almost a compromise type of sound between the crystal transparency of the Sugden and the euphonic joy of the Fisher.