[Tommy C]

Oh wow, crossovers are suddenly worth it?

I can't believe theyre actually talking about pre-orders again when the PM6 and Hunter are so late.

Yeah, I thought I was the only one who thinks that.

Exactly... Now crossovers are worth it, but of course the Q&A vid was taken down. l would have loved to hear their explanation to the change of approach. With that being said I have seen enough to look elsewhere. I don't trust their ETA, their fulfillment and l don't trust the specs they put out there including the accessories that come with the earphones and then change and remove from their website when it's time to deliver.
I still follow because l truly hope people will get their IEMs after a long wait but the whole experience has been bad to say the least.
P.S People who purchased the Air are due for an update as Trinity said they will need two weeks or less to apply their simple solution.

Trinity - stop treating your loyal customers like a cash cow. Many of them supported you for a very long time and wanted you to succeed and now are sorely disappointed.

 

[bjaardker]

There is a fundamental issue in reviewing audio products: Subjectivity. Everyone has different hearing and perception, even more so in audio.

Totally agree. Also, there's another element when you begin adding in concepts like "value" and "punching beyond it's price point" and that is the fact that the value element of headphones seems to be changing almost daily.

One of the things that hit this home for me was the fact that someone who was talking about the great value of the Masters had mentioned they "hadn't even picked up their IE80s since I got my Masters". While a year or two ago this would have been quite a statement, over the last 3 months there have been many new headphones costing between $30-70 USD that make the IE80 look old and tired. So that's really not much of a feat for a headphone with a MSRP of $205 USD.

 

[esm87]

Depends on how you view things.
When I was younger and more foolish, I had a watch collection well into 5 figures...loved it at the time (pun intended) but as I got older I thought it was insanity swapping watches "in rotation" - no disrespect to those who do, of course - and fortunately as they were well chosen, sold them on and made a bit of money. But my habits now are way more minimalist, and I only keep 4 IEMs, all of which have specific purposes. I would never again indulge in collecting.
I can see the appeal, all too clearly, but to echo the above post, the giving in to temptation and ordering a whole batch of untested IEMs would now give me serious pause. But it so often seems to be the head-fi way..

I just really want to streamline things I guess. Have to keep my vmoda crossfade wireless for gaming. My B&W P7W as my main headphone and just want one outstandingly good IEM just to keep portable quality as high as possible should I not want to take the P7.

Im still waiting to try the campfire Andromeda and as much as im busting to try it, I really don't want to, I have a sickening feeling that im going to love it and then fork out the cost and call it a day. Just one main HP and one IEM!

 

[JaeYoon]

I just really want to streamline things I guess. Have to keep my vmoda crossfade wireless for gaming. My B&W P7W as my main headphone and just want one outstandingly good IEM just to keep portable quality as high as possible should I not want to take the P7.

Im still waiting to try the campfire Andromeda and as much as im busting to try it, I really don't want to, I have a sickening feeling that im going to love it and then fork out the cost and call it a day. Just one main HP and one IEM!

Yeah Im resisting the feels to get Andromeda too! But Im leaning towards Lyra 2 because its fatigueless just like fiio x5iii and has some qualities I really like.

 

[bjaardker]

LOL LOL LOL LOL Icarus IV with Crossover = "We've been messing around with these PM6 and Hunter designs and realize we can't get it to sound like a TOTL IEM without a crossover".

Enjoy your beta test designs PM6 and Hunter buyers. I know I've been burned on my own Trinity beta products (PM4 & Air).

 

[JaeYoon]

LOL LOL LOL LOL Icarus IV with Crossover = "We've been messing around with these PM6 and Hunter designs and realize we can't get it to sound like a TOTL IEM without a crossover".

Enjoy your beta test designs PM6 and Hunter buyers. I know I've been burned on my own Trinity beta products (PM4 & Air).

Yeah I still remember that video where Bob mentioned crossovers were useless because they have multiple drivers across spectrum.

Guess they changed their minds.

I guess I volunteered to be a guinea pig when I preordered PM6. Oink Oink.

 

[sejsel]

Totally agree. Also, there's another element when you begin adding in concepts like "value" and "punching beyond it's price point" and that is the fact that the value element of headphones seems to be changing almost daily.

One of the things that hit this home for me was the fact that someone who was talking about the great value of the Masters had mentioned they "hadn't even picked up their IE80s since I got my Masters". While a year or two ago this would have been quite a statement, over the last 3 months there have been many new headphones costing between $30-70 USD that make the IE80 look old and tired. So that's really not much of a feat for a headphone with a MSRP of $205 USD.

Fair remark, although I am not 100% sure that 20-30$ price range these days incorporates dual out of phase drivers (push-pull ? ) - I might be wrong on this, but as I have said before, even though the boundaries of the technologies are ever progressing and changing, there are some limits as well...

Speaking of B&W P7 in the above post, and earlier, nice can, I have chosen Audio Technica ATH MSR7 over it due to the headband issue (it is not metal in B&W P7, as one would be lead to believe), as well as many reviews stating that the bass on the B&W P7 can be somewhat wooly and bloated at times. Very satisfied with AudioTechnica over ears, as well as with Masters.

FLC8s is the one that got me generally curious, but not at its current price. Hate to write this, but unfortunately the finances are the issue for us, people on the budget.

 

[esm87]

Fair remark, although I am not 100% sure that 20-30$ price range these days incorporates dual out of phase drivers (push-pull ? ) - I might be wrong on this, but as I have said before, even though the boundaries of the technologies are ever progressing and changing, there are some limits as well...

Speaking of B&W P7 in the above post, and earlier, nice can, I have chosen Audio Technica ATH MSR7 over it due to the headband issue (it is not metal in B&W P7, as one would be lead to believe), as well as many reviews stating that the bass on the B&W P7 can be somewhat wooly and bloated at times. Very satisfied with AudioTechnica over ears, as well as with Masters.

FLC8s is the one that got me generally curious, but not at its current price. Hate to write this, but unfortunately the finances are the issue for us, people on the budget.

I have the B&W P7 wireless. These sound different to the original P7, and pretty much are considered a fairly decent sq upgrade over the originals, I have never tried the original though.

Ye the AT headphones have always had me curious! Hopefully one day I will get around to listening to a high end pair of AT, your model gets good reviews aswell as looks cool too. The UK is really way behind in being able to try out HP's in my experience, sucks!

These masters do sound really nice! Im still loving the pm4 though, hmmmm

 

[OldDude04]

Icarus IV is coming?

Man, come on. This is getting ridiculous. They should deliver all the previously ordered devices first. As much as I love my Masters and am looking forward to my Icarus III, the thought of them worrying about the Icarus IV with all the other stuff currently left undelivered makes me wonder what is happening over there. I'm quite curious about the upcoming update someone spoke of.

 

[Karendar]

Man, come on. This is getting ridiculous. They should deliver all the previously ordered devices first. As much as I love my Masters and am looking forward to my Icarus III, the thought of them worrying about the Icarus IV with all the other stuff currently left undelivered makes me wonder what is happening over there. I'm quite curious about the upcoming update someone spoke of.

Why would they worry about it? They'll just start sales, wait for hype to build and the bank accounts to fill up and let the preorder idle for months They get a paycheck while they finish up PM6 and hunters, fix air, etc..

 

[Elegance]

I'm no expert, so i'd like to see what people think. Is there even any point waiting for Hunter at this point or should I just cancel? First PM6 edged closer and closer to Hunter which was meant to be the "Pinnacle" and now they're coming up with a new "TOTL" product?

 

[sejsel]

I have the B&W P7 wireless. These sound different to the original P7, and pretty much are considered a fairly decent sq upgrade over the originals, I have never tried the original though.

Ye the AT headphones have always had me curious! Hopefully one day I will get around to listening to a high end pair of AT, your model gets good reviews aswell as looks cool too. The UK is really way behind in being able to try out HP's in my experience, sucks!

These masters do sound really nice! Im still loving the pm4 though, hmmmm

To put things in perspective ( I do thank You for the kind words in your reply): very happy indeed with Audio Technica ATH MSR7s both in terms of looks and the performance - SQ. But - the source is always the pesky thing, and even today, there is so much variety in source material quality (how consistent is the sound across the register) that I found that Masters deal with that quite remarkably well, if filters are well chosen.Actually, you can adjust the sound far better with the Masters than any of the other cans I've got, and that is quite understandable...

Currently listening to some tracks with black filter, that filter has become a pleasant surprise, having in mind that I gravitate towards undamped filters...

What drove me to B&W P7 was how much more alive the music became of the Iphone when comparing to the NAD HP50, which sounded dull and static in comparison...

ATH MSR7 is excelling in detail, admittedly, there can be some splashiness to the sound, but then again, my ears were trained with well burned in AKGK701 (a very different beast from the one out of the box) from the tubey sounding solid state headphone amp, driving AKGs very well...

ATHs are, imo, for the segment they are in, really good... Give them a test listen, and make sure that the ones you are testing are well burned in as well.

UK has produced one thing I am genuinely drooling over, and that is a Quad PA-one headphone amp/dac... blew me away with my Grado GS1000, and other people with Senn HD800, but - guess what - as of this time, I can only dream of it...
On the other hand, the friday is coming , and there is a Euro Jackpot draw, so I might buy the lot for the first time in my life... you never know...

 

[Atkamon]

LOL LOL LOL LOL Icarus IV with Crossover = "We've been messing around with these PM6 and Hunter designs and realize we can't get it to sound like a TOTL IEM without a crossover".

Enjoy your beta test designs PM6 and Hunter buyers. I know I've been burned on my own Trinity beta products (PM4 & Air).

Your post makes me so angry, because I know you're right. Hope they prove me wrong, but the past few releases really point in this direction.

 

[boblauer]

Yeah, I've moved on to gold un-damped and medium kombi-tips too. Feels like a small improvement. It's hard to describe, but my impression is that the sound isn't very refined with mid-fi at best fidelity, which I don't necessarily mind depending on my mood, but then I expect smoothness in return. The Masters however, don't seem particularly smooth. If anything, they're a bit on the fatiguing side. If I had to guess, I'd assume that the lack of crossovers is the root cause of the "unrefined yet not smooth" impression. Maybe damped filters would help with the fatigue, but the sound is on the distant and veiled side as it is so I'm hesitant to try since I'm pretty sure I'll hate it.

Definitely not a fan of the V. Treble feels a bit harsh and subdued at the same time. I'm not hearing much of any lushness in the mids, which is something I crave. Bass ideally would be less humpy with more low end extension. Anything that demands to be listened to critically or intimately suffers thanks to the V-type response. I think a neutral-ish response can be just as, and even more, exciting than a v-response, especially with excellent bass extension, but any flaw in the headphone/iem is compounded. The better your product, the better it sounds with a neutral response and vice versa.

I'm having a hard time finding an enjoyable listening level. I keep wanting to listen louder to try to bring forward missing details, but then the harshness and graininess leaves me reeling and I lower the volume lower than I had it before.

As negative as I probably sound, I still think it was a decent buy at the sale price. But what I'm hearing isn't worth the current asking price. Not even close. And yeah, it's of course possible my impressions will evolve more favourably given some more time. Or that burn in actually exists.

That said, if my impressions don't change over the weekend and the PM6 isn't significantly better in terms of fidelity, tuning, and neutrality, I'll probably look into cancelling my order early Monday.

I had a fairly similar first reaction, I did burn them in for @100 hours. Listened for the next couple of days and found the red filters a little fatiguing almost a bit shouty. Changed up to the Blue filters, better impression but not enough time with those yet. One thing I did notice is they scale with better source and amplification, they sound so much better out of my desktop than mobile alone or even my X3II with an external amp. I do agree the cable is not friendly, very heavy towards the mid point so when doing activities it is just awkward. I was cleaning the pool listening to music as I've done for 15 years and I stopped and went inside and switched IEM's as the swinging of the midpoint point was bothersome, thought it might send the rig swimming from my shorts pocket. I may try one of the undampened standard color filters next if Blue does not meet the need. For the price, upgrade price 60 GBP, decent value; would not spend the 159 GBP though.

Update after a couple of hours I do like the Blue filters way better than the Red, amplification is important as is seal. I am using Spiral Dots ML size. My masters came without Spin Fits, or Kombis, no case, no balanced cable and no 90 degree adapter. I'm going to try wearing the cable backwards behind my neck this weekend when outside again, got several hours of boat prep to do so will see if that helps the pendulum effect of the cable on the front with rig in my front pants pocket. Thanks for the idea.
I do stand my by opinion that for full retail I have other's I personally like better, $200-$250 USD range IE Noble X, LZA4, SWIII. I use IEM's outside where isolation is the key and could very well be influenced by my desktop setup when evaluating.

 

[LordOfMusic]

Is it normal if my Masters is was sent on 28.04 and not in post office yet?