TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*
Dec 7, 2016 at 6:20 AM Post #9,466 of 24,683
We have tried to always listen on head-fi and we have tried to accommodate so much and cater for almost every option we have made it almost impossible for ourselves, so we had to draw a line in the sand and say we are going to do it how we think is best.

 
I don't think it's as much of a head-fi thing as it is a "the entire market" thing. Consumers, and not just the vocal minority here on head-fi, prefer fully replaceable cables. They like the choice it provides, and the peace of mind that they give. No one trusts IEM cables either. You could make the best IEM cables ever that last a lifetime, but you won't have much luck erasing that stigma. Not to mention if someone does a google search about the integrity of your cables, they're liable to come up with a bad impression. While the semi-replaceable cable may work OK for some market segments, at the really high end people expect fully replaceable cables. And even if the warranty and service is excellent, only people on head-fi are going to be aware of that, and even then no one likes sending things in to the manufacturer. There's a good reason why only a tiny minority of IEMs use cables that terminate at the Y-split instead of at each IEM (and no TOTL that I'm aware of, although I don't follow IEMs nearly as much as regular headphones), and that it hasn't caught on to wider usage.
 
While I'm sure you have good technical reasons for wanting the change, I can't help but feel it's a huge mistake from a business perspective. 
 
But that's the beautiful thing about having a fully replaceable cable using an industry standard connection. You don't need to accommodate anyone. If they don't like your cable solution, they can just go ahead and use their own. For example, if you still terminated at the Y-split but also terminated at each IEM, anyone that disliked that could just buy go buy a different cable that doesn't have the y-split termination. 
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 6:34 AM Post #9,468 of 24,683
 
Questions, Questions: :)
 
Is this for the upcoming (changed but original pre-orders?)
 
I mean - the PM6 I pre-ordered - that will now come with recessed, swappable, 2 pin connectors cables.
They will have a new 'much tougher' - in house built cable?
There also will be an option to 'upgrade it' to a 'fancy one?'
 
(You really need to write that new post to stop annoying ****'s like me asking these things :wink:   )

 


PM 6 and Hunter will just use the industry standard recessed 2 pin connector. Hunter comes with uprated cables anyway
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 6:36 AM Post #9,470 of 24,683
 
Great, but I'm a bit confused now, because I don't know what I really will get... Waiting for new thread with finally information.

 


Hunter and PM6 will be unchanged apart from using industry standard recessed 2 pin connector rather than our own.


So no new voice drivers?
Also if I want the Litz cable can i still order it?
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 6:48 AM Post #9,472 of 24,683
So no new voice drivers?
Also if I want the Litz cable can i still order it?

 


Hunter gets new driver anyway.

Cables can be ordered


Sorry for the annoying questions, and being too impatient to wait for the new thead, but to confirm:

-Preorder PM6 does not have the new, more durable cable, but you will make ones in standard 2 pin that can be ordered?

-Preorder PM6 does not have the new dual voice coil drivers, but both the new PM6 and new PM4 will have them?
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 6:52 AM Post #9,473 of 24,683
I'm actually MORE excited about Hunter now that it will use standard 2 pin. Any chance of a standard 2 pin BT lanyard or do we have to wait for the new DAC unit?
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 7:48 AM Post #9,475 of 24,683
Hi Bob,
 
I'm really glad that you are replacing those darn fiddly proprietary connectors. When I went to use an aftermarket cable I was unpleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, I'm still unpleasantly surprised. Jumping from one proprietary standard to another proprietary standard is no way to behave--I really don't care for your it's better response. I understand that you are trying to lower your fail rates, but the answer to that is likely switching to higher quality components and OEMs, not switching to a second proprietary 'solution.' I have a firm dislike of the current Trinity connectors.
 
I know that there is variance on the pin size of 0.79mm pins and on their sockets, but every other manufacturer either deals with this, or deals with MMCX sockets. Both of these are fine solutions. Don't do the y-split, unless you just really want to piss off a good deal of your customers. Don't make your eco-system incompatible with all the other systems out there. Don't behave like Apple. I don't think you've built that kind of cult following yet.
 
I think what you need is to partner with better manufacturers, which will cost more money, but now that you've finalized the driver designs of your line-up, you should be able to accomplish this. I also think you need to take care of your BT cable customers. You missed a trick on the BT cable by having it be only with connectors that no other headphones are compatible with. Now because of constantly switching standards, you risk pissing off all your customers, not just the ones who have failed PM4s.
 
My PM4 sounds fine, but the build quality is not of a high enough standard. I recommend switching your shells to a stronger aluminum or steel. I think people will have threading problems. I recommend having all your IEMs have the same size filters so that there is no possibility of crossthreading. I recommend that if tunings are different for filters they have different colours. If the silver filters on the PM4 and Vyrus don't have the exact same acoustic effects, then they should be different colours. I recommend biting the bullet and switching to 2-pin or MMCX and making the best implementation of that you can. Man was that proprietary connector ill-advised. Now you will have a bunch of cables that won't be useful for any headphone but the Trinity headphones from a nine month period in 2016. I have found that MMCX connectors have tighter tolerances than 2-pin, so it's up to you to make sure the headphone side is durable. Whether the cable fails is less important, as the cables are designed to be replaceable, if a 2-pin socket is warped due to pin size variance, you can't really do anything about that. Most people won't be pulling out their cables constantly, so the failure rate you are talking about will be mitigated.
 
Best of luck, Bob!

 


Thanks for the feedback Micah, always appreciated.

However for what plans we have we won't be using the 2 pin or mmcx after we have finished the hunter and master 6 run.

MMCX is naff unless you add major bulk to strengthen it up, 2 pin is nice but again not perfect, in fact no solution is perfect, what we do know is this, with what we plan we will see tiny percentage failure rates, our new cables are much much tougher and if people want fancy cables instead, well they can opt for that at the time of order as we now have our own in-house cable maker guy.

Change will be hard for some to accept, but hey thats life, some won't like it, but when you see how simple it is and what benefits it brings, maybe you will change your mind.

Also there will be a 2 year unit warranty (currently 1yr) and a 3 year cable warranty.

We have tried to always listen on head-fi and we have tried to accommodate so much and cater for almost every option we have made it almost impossible for ourselves, so we had to draw a line in the sand and say we are going to do it how we think is best.


If I understand you correctly, the pre-order Master 6 and Hunter will have the older cable design an older Warranty?

How much in the future will these have the new cabling system? One month, three months, six months from now?

My understanding was Hunter was supposed to be limited to 1000 units this appears to have changed as well since you are making all these updates I assume the pre-orders will not count against that number?
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 7:50 AM Post #9,476 of 24,683
I'm actually MORE excited about Hunter now that it will use standard 2 pin. Any chance of a standard 2 pin BT lanyard or do we have to wait for the new DAC unit?


I may be misinterpreting things but I do not believe there will be a DAC/amp for the two pin connector. These pre-orders in my opinion are going to be the end of the line and I'm not sure what kind of cabling support or accessories will be available such as a Bluetooth connector.

I have emailed Jake and I know he is swamped but I'm not getting complete answers to my questions and concerns

I appreciate I am not the only one asking questions and having concerns.

I also understand Trinity feels these changes are best for their business model for future growth and survival. I'm never an opponent of a company trying to do things right and get better.

Like many here though, I feel caught in the middle and stuck. As I likely will not be able to upgrade my pre-order Hunter to a newer version of Hunter because of cost
I also, don't like owning a product that I feel is limited or obsolete before I even receive it from a company. I know there will be good customer service but it is still a very limited product in the company's line now.

I am eagerly await Ing the new thread from Trinity hopefully clarifying all of these details and issues as well as whatever email they're going to send out to their current customers/pre-orders
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 8:04 AM Post #9,479 of 24,683
I may be misinterpreting things but I do not believe there will be a DAC/amp for the two pin connector. These pre-orders in my opinion are going to be the end of the line and I'm not sure what kind of cabling support or accessories will be available such as a Bluetooth connector.

I have emailed Jake and I know he is swamped but I'm not getting complete answers to my questions and concerns

I appreciate I am not the only one asking questions and having concerns.

I also understand Trinity feels these changes are best for their business model for future growth and survival. I'm never an opponent of a company trying to do things right and get better.

Like many here though, I feel caught in the middle and stuck. As I likely will not be able to upgrade my pre-order Hunter to a newer version of Hunter because of cost
I also, don't like owning a product that I feel is limited or obsolete before I even receive it from a company. I know there will be good customer service but it is still a very limited product in the company's line now.

I am eagerly await Ing the new thread from Trinity hopefully clarifying all of these details and issues as well as whatever email they're going to send out to their current customers/pre-orders

 
The DAC/AMP details haven't been revealed yet, but I'm pretty sure you will be able to connect a normal cable to it.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they went totally proprietary on that.  I'm talking about the current PM6/Hunter Bluetooth lanyard that I was waiting to order once it was back in stock.  
 
I'm not sure what makes you think anything will be obsolete.  The pre-orders will get the BENEFIT of a standard 2 pin connector rather than a hard-wired cable with a split at the Y.  
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 8:31 AM Post #9,480 of 24,683
   
The DAC/AMP details haven't been revealed yet, but I'm pretty sure you will be able to connect a normal cable to it.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they went totally proprietary on that.  I'm talking about the current PM6/Hunter Bluetooth lanyard that I was waiting to order once it was back in stock.  
 
I'm not sure what makes you think anything will be obsolete.  The pre-orders will get the BENEFIT of a standard 2 pin connector rather than a hard-wired cable with a split at the Y.  


I respectfully disagree. I should have put quotes around obsolete.  But the reality is the high end products are being revised and the pre-orders are not benefiting from the changes and will be odd man out in the line up. 
 
I used the 2 pin connector on the M4 and I am not sure it will hold up over time to a tight connection.
 
There is no indication the new BT/AMP/DAC will work with the 2 pin connector.  Bob gave 0 indication of that.
 
I ordered a BT lanyard and receieved before the M4, even though I requested they be shipped together.  The BT lanyard is already being changed...no memory wire and shorter cable.  But there are connectivity issues and poor volume adjustment in my opinion.  The recently announced BT connector for the new cabling system appears to be getting a new chip.  I asked Jake if the revised one for the 2 pin is getting any chip changes and I don't believe so.
 
I know Bob was excited to tease the announced changes but he should have put together a full disclosure first and not little bits over many posts.  I know a new thread is coming but!!
 
I have been a supporter throughout and bought in on Phantom Air via KS.  But I am very worried.  Will the new dual voice coil driver end up in phantom air, M6 and Hunter. I am worried on volume issues with the phantom Air.
 
I have not canceled my Hunter pre-order but I am close and I am trying to wait for more info, but the little tidbits of information are a huge concern to me.
 
I still own a BT lanyard that is of ? benefit-(sent in for exchange but now I think it needs to be returned too)  I hate buying and returning.  I need a more settled product line.
 
It seems the new Atlas-Delta is getting the new cabling system since Jake told me the BT lanyard I returned will not work with it.  UGH! 
 
OK my rant is over
 

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