TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

[duracek]

I might try a few different tip options tonight to see if that makes any difference. I only have the medium-small spinfits with me at the moment.

 

[nealh]

Driver flex is obvious, you will hear a crinkling sound as you insert the iem, it is the sound of the driver warping due to the build up of pressure in ear canal and driver on insertion, if pressure is high enough the driver warps badly enough to affect audio playback. Driver flex isn't good for the driver, but many audio companies say it's normal and shrug it off... Although it isn't hard to make a driver stiff enough that it doesn't flex, like Sony uses LCP drivers for their high end iem and headphone, surprise, none of them have driver flex.

Btw I'm not singling out trinity on this issue, the expensive Sennheiser IE800 can also have driver flex. Nonetheless there are products out there that don't have driver flex, and I will stick to those products. So Hunter better not have it, if it does, let me know so I can cancel my order please.

Driver flex won't affect everyone, some peoples ears just evade it, and tip choice has an effect.

So is this something you here before you actually play music when your inserting the IEM in the ear canal? Or do you have to be having audio playback while inserting it?

I can understand the issue with potential damage to the driver. I wonder if this is changed by making sure the vent hole is positioned so that it's always outside the ear canal?

 

[Podster]

Driver flex is obvious, you will hear a crinkling sound as you insert the iem, it is the sound of the driver warping due to the build up of pressure in ear canal and driver on insertion, if pressure is high enough the driver warps badly enough to affect audio playback. Driver flex isn't good for the driver, but many audio companies say it's normal and shrug it off... Although it isn't hard to make a driver stiff enough that it doesn't flex, like Sony uses LCP drivers for their high end iem and headphone, surprise, none of them have driver flex.

Btw I'm not singling out trinity on this issue, the expensive Sennheiser IE800 can also have driver flex. Nonetheless there are products out there that don't have driver flex, and I will stick to those products. So Hunter better not have it, if it does, let me know so I can cancel my order please.

Driver flex won't affect everyone, some peoples ears just evade it, and tip choice has an effect.

And here I was thinking drivers have a surround just so they can flex It's the distance of travel and over driving that can be bad.

You may not be singling out Trinity but you are here in the Trinity thread causing concern. I'm sure if you persist Bob will have to reevaluate his initial stance which is a lot likr the other manufacturers that shrug it off as you say.

I'll wait to pass any kind of judgement once I have mine in hand. It may not affect a lot of buyers so I don't want to add to the driver flex fire before it's an obvious problem for more than a couple buyers

Wonder what kind of flex iem's might have if they used a B&W FST surroundless driver. I've always wondered if driver flex could also be in ones own eardrum flexing under pressure somewhat like pressure flex in flight. That click sounds the same to me.

Now I have something new to research

Either way I'm sure Bob and team are going back over this design already just on these few reports.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

So is this something you here before you actually play music when your inserting the IEM in the ear canal? Or do you have to be having audio playback while inserting it?
I can understand the issue with potential damage to the driver. I wonder if this is changed by making sure the vent hole is positioned so that it's always outside the ear canal?

 
Yes you hear it while inserting the iem, doesn't matter whether music playing, but obviously easier to hear it when no music playing, often the vent is too small to release the amount of pressure built up, best is to just have a stiffer driver that doesn't flex...
 
Quote:

1. And here I was thinking drivers have a surround just so they can flex It's the distance of travel and over driving that can be bad.

2. You may not be singling out Trinity but you are here in the Trinity thread causing concern. I'm sure if you persist Bob will have to reevaluate his initial stance which is a lot likr the other manufacturers that shrug it off as you say.

3. I've always wondered if driver flex could also be in ones own eardrum flexing under pressure somewhat like pressure flex in flight. That click sounds the same to me.

 
1. You've misunderstood what driver flex is, drivers are designed to move back and forth, but driver flex is often when the actual driver face is deforming, eg the middle cone popping inwards etc. Iem drivers that flex are often so thin that it doesn't damage them, they just flex away, hence many audio companies saying it is within spec. I'd prefer a stiff non flexing driver though.
 
2. I do have Hunter ordered so I kinda have a lot at stake. I'm not causing concern, only answering peoples questions. I did mention that there are plenty of iem's with driver flex, even Sennheiser IE800, but I'll stick to owning the many others without driver flex thanks.
 
3. Not a chance. Driver flex has a distinct plasticy crinkling sound, for example like the sound of cellophane being prodded.
 
This isn't really a big issue guys, as I said, and Bob has said, driver flex is within spec, it happens for some people with some iems on insertion, it doesn't affect the sound unless it happens in an extreme way. But you'll be hearing from me if my hunter has driver flex 

 

 

[Bobtrinity]

Yes you hear it while inserting the iem, doesn't matter whether music playing, but obviously easier to hear it when no music playing, often the vent is too small to release the amount of pressure built up, best is to just have a stiffer driver that doesn't flex...

1. You've misunderstood what driver flex is, drivers are designed to move back and forth, but driver flex is often when the actual driver face is deforming, eg the middle cone popping inwards etc. Iem drivers that flex are often so thin that it doesn't damage them, they just flex away, hence many audio companies saying it is within spec. I'd prefer a stiff non flexing driver though.

2. I do have Hunter ordered so I kinda have a lot at stake. I'm not causing concern, only answering peoples questions. I did mention that there are plenty of iem's with driver flex, even Sennheiser IE800, but I'll stick to owning the many others without driver flex thanks.

3. Not a chance. Driver flex has a distinct plasticy crinkling sound, for example like the sound of cellophane being prodded.

This isn't really a big issue guys, as I said, and Bob has said, driver flex is within spec, it happens for some people with some iems on insertion, it doesn't affect the sound unless it happens in an extreme way. But you'll be hearing from me if my hunter has driver flex :evil:  

Hunter won't have any flex at all as only using a single driver and is different to others.

To answer any concerns for others the sabre uses a push pull set up and for some people that build pressure easily in the ear canal you MAY hear a little pop/ crinkle sound as the drivers flex and settle on insertion and the pressure equalises.

You will not hear it again and normal audio playback will NOT be effected. This won't damage the driver in any way or effect audio performance.

Anyone not happy or has a concern can contact us and we will advise and replace if needed without argument.

Driver flex is common among masses of brands and no cause from concern.

The only reason you don't hear it on any of our other products is due to them being single dynamic driver and the chamber pressures are different on insertion.

Again just to reiterate that the small pop/crinkle noise will only ever be heard when inserting them not during playback and most people will not hear it at all and is dependant on tip choice and ones own ear anatomy.

 

[pedronet]

Just to be clear guys, my intentions of reporting this are not to warn people like this is a reason to be alarmed.
I'm just stating what i hear from my experience and, as i said before in my first post about this, i don't want to scare anyone.
 
Plus these flex lightly, my JBL J33, for example, have a severe driver flex compared to these, they click really loud and they're still perfectly functional today. Relax guys 

 

[myemaildw]

if anyone with one of these sabres iems that have driver flex dont want it i would buy it if you selling. also people got their sabre iem and start talking about defects and not about how good it sounds. isnt it not good sounding? i have flare and ep001 and no other iem, wanted to buy fender dxa1 but not in stock, duno where reliable to buy it. but if anyone wants to sell their crinkly sabre i might buy. thanks

 

[On The And Of 1]

Does anyone know if these filter descriptions from the Atlas also apply to the Sabre?

[COLOR=9C9898]

• [COLOR=CC0000]RED[/COLOR] = Enhanced bass. Offering a V shape signature while retaining plenty of musical detail
• [COLOR=B45F06]ORANGE[/COLOR] = V shape signature with slightly decreased bass
• [COLOR=FFFF00]YELLOW[/COLOR] = Neutral + Offering a more balanced sound signature with a very slight increase bass over neutral with a great mid and high range sparkle
• [COLOR=FF00FF]PURPLE[/COLOR] = Neutral - Offering a more balanced sound signature across the frequencies.
• [COLOR=666666]GUNMETAL[/COLOR] = Treble. Offering a reduced bass signature with an focus on upper mids and treble.

[/COLOR]

I found @Hisoundfi review in post #745 to offer excellent accuracy regarding the varying coloured filters.

 

[duracek]

if anyone with one of these sabres iems that have driver flex dont want it i would buy it if you selling. also people got their sabre iem and start talking about defects and not about how good it sounds. isnt it not good sounding? i have flare and ep001 and no other iem, wanted to buy fender dxa1 but not in stock, duno where reliable to buy it. but if anyone wants to sell their crinkly sabre i might buy. thanks

"Crinkly Sabre" lol. Honestly they sound amazing and definitely the flex issue must be only noticeable for some people. I have also ordered a pair of master 6's but I am struggling to imagine how Trinity will be able to improve on the sound of the Sabre but I look forward to being proven wrong!

 

[pedronet]

if anyone with one of these sabres iems that have driver flex dont want it i would buy it if you selling. also people got their sabre iem and start talking about defects and not about how good it sounds. isnt it not good sounding? i have flare and ep001 and no other iem, wanted to buy fender dxa1 but not in stock, duno where reliable to buy it. but if anyone wants to sell their crinkly sabre i might buy. thanks

 
Not quite true 

 i actually just mentioned the driver flex because someone asked me about initial impressions lol didn't want to advance on many conclusions because of the conditioned fit. But i posted how good they sounded:

   
Well so far i haven't tested much.
Also i don't want to scare anyone but mine has some driver flex issues, i consulted Bob about it and he will send me a replacement to solve the problem. (If there was any doubt that trinity customer support was really great, please let me tell you that his response was lightning fast!)
So far i avoided the problem with the wide bore tips but the seal isn't ideal (as i don't wanna force the driver to flex) so take this as a really thin impression of their full potential. The vocals are beautiful! They're really precise, the resolution is so damn good. There is no sibilance at all.
The bass is really tight, but then again the seal is everything for the lower frequencies. There are not even a sign of distortion so far.
The filters change is really good, not too much, not too little. It's just right! They're really a gorgeous work of engineering. So far i have tested the red filters and the gold ones. The golds make my ears cry of happiness.
About the long filters vs short. I actually find the short ones really comfortables, i think these suit me well 

 
 

 
But i can advance a little comparison i did with the deltas (with gold filters, damped and undamped) using the sabres (with the wide bore tips) with the gold filters as well. Be advised that the seal i got when i wrote this is not ideal (since i didn't want to force the driver to flex), i'm getting a good seal, just not as good as i wanted it to be, some impressions here might change.
 
Sabres are more organic, the sound is not as thin as the deltas but it's not a huge difference either. This is just for the midrange and treble. Probably due to the BA on the deltas.
Bass is similar but you can easily distiguish the sabres are tighter, more controlled. I'm not having the same impact as the sabres but i strongly suspect with a proper seal they will be pretty similar in terms of quantity and impact.
Treble is well extended in and it's of course brighter than the deltas with gold damped filter. There's also more sparkle in the sabres than the deltas with the gold undamped filters and i know the reason why. These dynamic babies produce stronger sounds in this area. They're not so thin, they have body and soul, it's like a musical note that is fatter.
 
Resolution so far it's really good, for a dynamic i'm really impressed. The push pull system is something. The deltas' resolution is similar in the mid range but since the sabres are warmer, some people will like more the sabres and some people will find it thicker, maybe darker but not too dark at all (i couldn't call these dark in any way).
 
Personally i prefer the sabres naturalness but i can adjust nicely since the deltas are not aggressively cold. The bass resolution though, is cleaner with the sabres. The treble on the sabre is really detailed too, side by side with the deltas (undamped) but i need some more listening here (treble fatigues me when long listening).
 
Sabres are good with acoustic instruments, probably due to the natural sound of the dynamic drivers. Acoustic guitars are a dream to hear, piano is like stairs of silk between the musical notes. Vocals are emphasized of course but they don't look so close to you as in the deltas. They're not too far away though
 
Finally, i think the deltas are more versatile with those filters for everything. Still the sabres are really refined. It's like two different sessions. The sabres are really detailed and provide you a sound you didn't miss a thing. The deltas can actually adapt to everything but they're not so lively. This last opinion is still shaky since i didn't test the other filters properly so please take in consideration that this last conclusion might change with time. Still i strongly predict that the deltas easily adapt to a larger variety of genres due to the ability to tame the treble.
 
For acoustic and calm songs, the sabres (with gold filters) are like kings,  i still can't really say they're better than the deltas (with both gold filters) because their treble makes me tired for longer sessions. I couldn't listen EDM with these for too long, but that's a really weird lack of taste i have with the sparkly treble and electronic music together.
 
 
I'm gonna test some other filters today, i'm planning on writing my final impressions altogether for the sabres, i want to spend more time with them to make sure my conclusions are solid. Hope this will help some. 

 

 

[Neotribal]

  "Crinkly Sabre" lol. Honestly they sound amazing and definitely the flex issue must be only noticeable for some people. I have also ordered a pair of master 6's but I am struggling to imagine how Trinity will be able to improve on the sound of the Sabre but I look forward to being proven wrong!

 
I'm eager to read impressions from Sabre owners re: sound and fit... Anyone have Deltas/Atlas to compare with?
 
EDIT: Thanks @pedronet, I was a few seconds late with my post 

 

[duracek]

   
I'm eager to read impressions from Sabre owners re: sound and fit... Anyone have Deltas/Atlas to compare with?
 
EDIT: Thanks @pedronet, I was a few seconds late with my post 

I own the Deltas and I would say that these do not compare to the Delta at all. The Sabre sound is totally different, they are much bigger and more open, almost like listening to some expensive open back over ears. It is really easy to forget that you are using headphones at all and start believing the sound is in the room with you. If you like a tighter more intimate sound then I guess the Deltas would be a better option. For me it is the warmer, richer Sabre all the way though. Well done Trinity!

 

[wangwang]

Man these early impressions are getting me so excited... why is the UK so far away from where I live 

 

[Monsoon]

DHL left me a voicemail and my Sabre's should be arriving today in Montreal. I'm guessing it should be the same for most people living close to a major city. Tracking shows they were picked up yesterday. 

 

[Podster]

  DHL left me a voicemail and my Sabre's should be arriving today in Montreal. I'm guessing it should be the same for most people living close to a major city. Tracking shows they were picked up yesterday. 

You lucky devil, I'm getting the silent treatment

Yeah, take that Bobby

LOL