antonyfirst
Headphoneus Supremus
Looks like Kenwood's lush sound keeps detaining the first position among mp3 players. However, nice comparison, Chris. It has been useful, 'cause no one had compared them directly before.
Trekstor Vibez or Sony NW-A808
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DobsOnly
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I for one, after going through this thread have not been able to come to the Conclusion that the Kenwood is holding any position.
To me the comments here confirm that there are several players that perform admirably as far as sound quality. VibeZ, Kenwood, IMOD, X5, Sony etc. What I'm gathering from this is that there a very subtle differences in each of these. There is also reference to using amps with each that IMO can radically change the sound of anything since each amp has its own musical chemistry that it adds to the reproduction.
I equate these references to the difference between a very fine Grado Headphone and an equally well performing Sennhieser. Both types can do a fantastic job with reproduction but have drastically different presentations. The latter being more mellow or laid back sounding. In my case I use my HF1 almost exclusively on a daily bases. But when I really want to hear what the player has to offer or how the recording was meant to sound I break out the HD600's and have a listen. Of course that's just me and my preference.
It seems to me when we talk about deal breakers with any of these players it's more often than not based on functionality issues and/or physical characteristics as opposed to sound reproduction. With all that said I personally find the VibeZ to an incredible bargain in terms of sound quality, portability and functionality.
This has been a great thread
| Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like Kenwood's lush sound keeps detaining the first position among mp3 players. However, nice comparison, Chris. It has been useful, 'cause no one had compared them directly before. |
I for one, after going through this thread have not been able to come to the Conclusion that the Kenwood is holding any position.
To me the comments here confirm that there are several players that perform admirably as far as sound quality. VibeZ, Kenwood, IMOD, X5, Sony etc. What I'm gathering from this is that there a very subtle differences in each of these. There is also reference to using amps with each that IMO can radically change the sound of anything since each amp has its own musical chemistry that it adds to the reproduction.
I equate these references to the difference between a very fine Grado Headphone and an equally well performing Sennhieser. Both types can do a fantastic job with reproduction but have drastically different presentations. The latter being more mellow or laid back sounding. In my case I use my HF1 almost exclusively on a daily bases. But when I really want to hear what the player has to offer or how the recording was meant to sound I break out the HD600's and have a listen. Of course that's just me and my preference.
It seems to me when we talk about deal breakers with any of these players it's more often than not based on functionality issues and/or physical characteristics as opposed to sound reproduction. With all that said I personally find the VibeZ to an incredible bargain in terms of sound quality, portability and functionality.
This has been a great thread
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DobsOnly- glad you're getting a lot from the thread! I'm learning a bunch by experimenting with these two players. I'm thinking the Kenwood is a bit better than the Vibez SQ-wise, and if the menus were half as good as on the Vibez it'd be tops of the pile bar none!
Unfortunately I think the Vibez I ordered has a problem. I notice some static in the background, which is associated with the music, and volume changes as well. Of course it goes unnoticed in any sort of normal music passages, but when there's a quiet moment, you hear it. It is not present on the same tracks on the Kenwood, which has the exact same mp3 files copied on it as does the Vibez.
I guess I need to contact Amazon and get a replacement....or is this normal with this player? I may have to try the Sony NWA808.... but with the luck I've been having lately, it'd break on me too, or I wouldn't be able to figure out the menus since it's not a US market player either (like the Kenwood). AARRRGGGHHHH.............will the search never end? ;0)
-Cheers, Chris.
Unfortunately I think the Vibez I ordered has a problem. I notice some static in the background, which is associated with the music, and volume changes as well. Of course it goes unnoticed in any sort of normal music passages, but when there's a quiet moment, you hear it. It is not present on the same tracks on the Kenwood, which has the exact same mp3 files copied on it as does the Vibez.
I guess I need to contact Amazon and get a replacement....or is this normal with this player? I may have to try the Sony NWA808.... but with the luck I've been having lately, it'd break on me too, or I wouldn't be able to figure out the menus since it's not a US market player either (like the Kenwood). AARRRGGGHHHH.............will the search never end? ;0)
-Cheers, Chris.
plywood99
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Qft. Each player has its own sonic "signature" so to speak and some folks will confuse that with quality or reproduction. IMHO the Vibez has easily bested the Ipod Nano 2gen, Sansa e280, RCA Lyras, (three different ones), and other players I have owned.
cn11, the first Vibez I got from Amazon was defective. Not the same thing you are describing, mine was freezing, shutting down do to a faulty scroll wheel. But maybe there is qc issues or something...
Ply
| Originally Posted by DobsOnly /img/forum/go_quote.gif I for one, after going through this thread have not been able to come to the Conclusion that the Kenwood is holding any position. To me the comments here confirm that there are several players that perform admirably as far as sound quality. VibeZ, Kenwood, IMOD, X5, Sony etc. What I'm gathering from this is that there a very subtle differences in each of these. There is also reference to using amps with each that IMO can radically change the sound of anything since each amp has its own musical chemistry that it adds to the reproduction. I equate these references to the difference between a very fine Grado Headphone and an equally well performing Sennhieser. Both types can do a fantastic job with reproduction but have drastically different presentations. The latter being more mellow or laid back sounding. In my case I use my HF1 almost exclusively on a daily bases. But when I really want to hear what the player has to offer or how the recording was meant to sound I break out the HD600's and have a listen. Of course that's just me and my preference. It seems to me when we talk about deal breakers with any of these players it's more often than not based on functionality issues and/or physical characteristics as opposed to sound reproduction. With all that said I personally find the VibeZ to an incredible bargain in terms of sound quality, portability and functionality. This has been a great thread
|
Qft. Each player has its own sonic "signature" so to speak and some folks will confuse that with quality or reproduction. IMHO the Vibez has easily bested the Ipod Nano 2gen, Sansa e280, RCA Lyras, (three different ones), and other players I have owned.
cn11, the first Vibez I got from Amazon was defective. Not the same thing you are describing, mine was freezing, shutting down do to a faulty scroll wheel. But maybe there is qc issues or something...
Ply
bangraman
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At this point in time I'd say buy neither. I have both the 808 and the Vibez among... well, a few others. Just because I've not been posting on Head-Fi much doesn't mean I've been remiss in my DAP-buying
Admittedly I don't use the 808 anywhere near as much as I should, because Sonicstage (which I'll refer to hereafter more accurately as Chronicstage) is just a complete joke compared to any other media management / loading software out there, opinions of users with perhaps twenty anime albums in their entire collection and long-term Sony fanboys notwithstanding. As I've said elsewhere, running on one of my overclocked quad-cores it behaves like the current (behemoth) iTunes would on a four-year-old PC. Also, the 808 is not demonstrably superior to the Vibez in terms of SQ... or many other players for that matter. And that's not arrived at through a hurried, uncontrolled and biased test in the 7 days that you have to return a player
, and also the way that Sony engineers the 808 makes it slightly more difficult to arrive at a "level playing field" conclusion.
The first problem with the NW-A808’s sound is that it once again has the bass hump for a supposedly 'flat' setting, a level that appears higher for ATRAC than MP3. It could be argued that this is not a ‘sonic signature’ level but a somewhat more deliberate decision to affect decisions at the psychological level, but I won’t get too much into that. Also because the 808 itself doesn't play back lossless formats it's not really possible to give the Sony player a totally fair shake either way. The slightly modified 'flat' signal gives it either an unfair disadvantage or advantage depending on the listener simply because there’s a very slight difference, and while others are playing back Lossless data the Sony is incapable of matching that level of performance.
Perhaps as a result of the abovementioned shenanigans, the core sound quality of the Sony in comparison to the Vibez is just a tad behind. A tad less clarity, a tad less openness. Thing is though as a standalone - i.e. without reference to software, loading, etc - player for regular compressed files, I really, really like the Sony. The controls are logical. It has excellent menus without doing anything weird. And it's just got that sexy polished feel about the entire device with very solid build quality and some really nice touches in the interface that makes the Vibez look like a DIY product. The screen is gorgeous and the way the interface is shown on it far outstrips other players in terms of ‘now that’s nice’. It's just that in an everyday, real-life situation with a music enthusiast in comparison to the other players it's significantly more infuriating to load and unload. And unlike a large-capacity player, you will be doing that much more often and I believe it’s the main deal-breaker. It certainly is for me.
Onto the Vibez. OK – so it does FLAC, Ogg, etc and it’s gapless. Which is great. It has the parametric EQ. So what happens when you put FLAC on this thing to enjoy it at its best? Track gaps. I’m not talking gaps between the tracks. I’m talking about gaps *in* the tracks. Every time the HDD powers up to fill the buffer (which is when it needs to, not in-between tracks), it cuts out the sound for a good quarter-second. It’s the same problem that the Karma had in terms of the buffer-fill blip, only much, much more noticeable. Unfortunately the Vibez seems to have very similar audio issues to the Karma in general, even down to the essentially useless Auto Gain control. It is a very respectable player though when it’s not exhibiting these problems, and FLAC playback certainly puts it over the Sony in terms of fidelity, and even compared with similar lossy material the Vibez indicates itself as the slightly better-quality source. The Vibez also has some interesting spikes in the highs when you look at the “flat” plot, although it’s harder to say if this is deliberate or not. But the fact that it doesn’t play back high quality material properly is a major minus factor, which I hope will be fixed with a firmware upgrade.
It’s also not quite a shoehorned Karma + recording + radio, and it has lost one of the Karma’s best music-related features – the on-the-fly playlist generation (that's full playlist creation and editing on the fly, not an on-the-fly playlist as iPod users may assume). It’s also not quite as easy to use as the Karma was. I think by switching to a giant wheel with an integrated 4-way pad, they've taken away some of the natural usability that the Karma's controls had. Provided you were right-handed the Karma had one of the better examples of human interface engineering (if not the best control build quality) out of players to date, and the Vibez has diluted that somewhat. On the plus side, the Vibez is among the fastest-to-load MTP players I've come across and it is also quite refreshing in how it doesn't crash while transferring every few connects or so. There do seem to be a few DRM problems, and I might have a bit more to say on that but if you're on unDRM'd music then it should be very nice and quick. And those VU meters, especially in the amber colour scheme… once you’ve had it, you can’t go back
Eh? What’s the D2 doing there?
If I were you I would include the iAudio D2 in the list of players to consider if gapless is not a critical issue, because the D2 is not gapless. I do matched listening tests - the headphone volumes of each player being compared is matched to less than 0.5db when possible, <1db if not to get rid of the possibility of amplitude changes interfering with the SQ assessment, and in this particular case the volume difference between the players for the test listening tracks were within 0.2db’s. The D2 bests the Sony by a slightly higher margin than the Vibez in terms of fidelity, although the Vibez kicks up the highs a little adding to a teensy bit more splashiness / texture up top.
Are any of the players unacceptable in terms of SQ for everyday, compressed-file use? I think absolutely not, all are fundamentally competent players. But the best among these for fidelity with high-bitrate materials out of the headphone out seems to be the D2.
The fact that I think the D2 is slightly better sounding than these machines is not to say that the D2 is a best-of-breed player. It's merely one of the better players on the market SQ-wise so you can infer what you want out of that. But that, I have to tell you, surprised me (or maybe it shouldn’t have, knowing Head-Fi) given the hype over the Vibez. If you’re the sort of person who considers a balance of everything – features, core sound quality, usability, and demands competency in all of those aspects but gives a heavy weight to sound quality, I would say that the iAudio is definitely worth looking into. It’s got a very decent core sound quality in all codecs, along with the ability to change the flavour as you see fit. So you can have your cake and eat it, unlike the Nano for example. Featurewise, few other players can beat this thing right now. And it is pretty usable once you get past having to use your nail to prod controls, as the touchscreen does give you some interface advantages.
The 808 is closure for me of sorts – this is probably the last Sony I’ll be given, as opposed to actually going out and buying one. I do hope one day that there is a Sony that I find is worth actually buying after a comparison, because I think their hardware guys still haven't lost their touch and the 808 could be the best piece of portable hardware to come out of Sony as of late. Every hardware and firmware aspect of this has been sweated over and it really shows – purely when considered as a standalone player it is absolutely one of my all-time faves. It's just that their software and legal guys have never had the touch to begin with and that screws the pooch for the 'whole player experience'. The fact that it doesn’t actually exhibit any notable superiority in terms of actual sound quality in comparison to many other players out there is another mark against it as a clear ‘Head-Fi’ contender.
The Vibez’ problems in the audio department with source material which actually justifies the hyped playback quality of this device, allied to the fact that it’s not got the stand-out best audio stage out there reveals the Vibez to be not a panacea for SQ-maniacs, unless perhaps you want to believe it's the best (And there are at least a couple of players out there for which I could say the same thing – and one of them has a digital amp) as many of you out there already have done. The shortest battery life here by a notable margin also marks it down a notch. In terms of design, UI, etc the Vibez didn’t make anywhere near the impression on me that the Sony did, but nevertheless it’s competent and the battery is replaceable (although as in the case of other superceded players with replaceable cells, it remains to be seen whether the cells remain available).
[size=xx-small]Gratuitous picture: The coolest DAP clock yet brought to you by Sony. [/size]
[size=xx-small]Gratuitous picture #2: VU meters are also cool. Vibez brings back the Karma VU display mode.[/size]
Coming back to the start, you can probably see by now what I mean when I said I wouldn't buy either. The Vibez deserves credit for bringing back the Karma in a slightly more modernised form... but I think it’s taken a step back in several areas. And the Sony... a potential surefire hit is crippled by Chronistage. There are better packages on the market depending on what you want, and I would say that one of those options would be the D2. And I don’t think this is everything I have to say about the Vibez or the 808, but in the interests of the post becoming out of context I’ll put this much out there now.
Admittedly I don't use the 808 anywhere near as much as I should, because Sonicstage (which I'll refer to hereafter more accurately as Chronicstage) is just a complete joke compared to any other media management / loading software out there, opinions of users with perhaps twenty anime albums in their entire collection and long-term Sony fanboys notwithstanding. As I've said elsewhere, running on one of my overclocked quad-cores it behaves like the current (behemoth) iTunes would on a four-year-old PC. Also, the 808 is not demonstrably superior to the Vibez in terms of SQ... or many other players for that matter. And that's not arrived at through a hurried, uncontrolled and biased test in the 7 days that you have to return a player
The first problem with the NW-A808’s sound is that it once again has the bass hump for a supposedly 'flat' setting, a level that appears higher for ATRAC than MP3. It could be argued that this is not a ‘sonic signature’ level but a somewhat more deliberate decision to affect decisions at the psychological level, but I won’t get too much into that. Also because the 808 itself doesn't play back lossless formats it's not really possible to give the Sony player a totally fair shake either way. The slightly modified 'flat' signal gives it either an unfair disadvantage or advantage depending on the listener simply because there’s a very slight difference, and while others are playing back Lossless data the Sony is incapable of matching that level of performance.
Perhaps as a result of the abovementioned shenanigans, the core sound quality of the Sony in comparison to the Vibez is just a tad behind. A tad less clarity, a tad less openness. Thing is though as a standalone - i.e. without reference to software, loading, etc - player for regular compressed files, I really, really like the Sony. The controls are logical. It has excellent menus without doing anything weird. And it's just got that sexy polished feel about the entire device with very solid build quality and some really nice touches in the interface that makes the Vibez look like a DIY product. The screen is gorgeous and the way the interface is shown on it far outstrips other players in terms of ‘now that’s nice’. It's just that in an everyday, real-life situation with a music enthusiast in comparison to the other players it's significantly more infuriating to load and unload. And unlike a large-capacity player, you will be doing that much more often and I believe it’s the main deal-breaker. It certainly is for me.
Onto the Vibez. OK – so it does FLAC, Ogg, etc and it’s gapless. Which is great. It has the parametric EQ. So what happens when you put FLAC on this thing to enjoy it at its best? Track gaps. I’m not talking gaps between the tracks. I’m talking about gaps *in* the tracks. Every time the HDD powers up to fill the buffer (which is when it needs to, not in-between tracks), it cuts out the sound for a good quarter-second. It’s the same problem that the Karma had in terms of the buffer-fill blip, only much, much more noticeable. Unfortunately the Vibez seems to have very similar audio issues to the Karma in general, even down to the essentially useless Auto Gain control. It is a very respectable player though when it’s not exhibiting these problems, and FLAC playback certainly puts it over the Sony in terms of fidelity, and even compared with similar lossy material the Vibez indicates itself as the slightly better-quality source. The Vibez also has some interesting spikes in the highs when you look at the “flat” plot, although it’s harder to say if this is deliberate or not. But the fact that it doesn’t play back high quality material properly is a major minus factor, which I hope will be fixed with a firmware upgrade.
It’s also not quite a shoehorned Karma + recording + radio, and it has lost one of the Karma’s best music-related features – the on-the-fly playlist generation (that's full playlist creation and editing on the fly, not an on-the-fly playlist as iPod users may assume). It’s also not quite as easy to use as the Karma was. I think by switching to a giant wheel with an integrated 4-way pad, they've taken away some of the natural usability that the Karma's controls had. Provided you were right-handed the Karma had one of the better examples of human interface engineering (if not the best control build quality) out of players to date, and the Vibez has diluted that somewhat. On the plus side, the Vibez is among the fastest-to-load MTP players I've come across and it is also quite refreshing in how it doesn't crash while transferring every few connects or so. There do seem to be a few DRM problems, and I might have a bit more to say on that but if you're on unDRM'd music then it should be very nice and quick. And those VU meters, especially in the amber colour scheme… once you’ve had it, you can’t go back
Eh? What’s the D2 doing there?
If I were you I would include the iAudio D2 in the list of players to consider if gapless is not a critical issue, because the D2 is not gapless. I do matched listening tests - the headphone volumes of each player being compared is matched to less than 0.5db when possible, <1db if not to get rid of the possibility of amplitude changes interfering with the SQ assessment, and in this particular case the volume difference between the players for the test listening tracks were within 0.2db’s. The D2 bests the Sony by a slightly higher margin than the Vibez in terms of fidelity, although the Vibez kicks up the highs a little adding to a teensy bit more splashiness / texture up top.
Are any of the players unacceptable in terms of SQ for everyday, compressed-file use? I think absolutely not, all are fundamentally competent players. But the best among these for fidelity with high-bitrate materials out of the headphone out seems to be the D2.
The fact that I think the D2 is slightly better sounding than these machines is not to say that the D2 is a best-of-breed player. It's merely one of the better players on the market SQ-wise so you can infer what you want out of that. But that, I have to tell you, surprised me (or maybe it shouldn’t have, knowing Head-Fi) given the hype over the Vibez. If you’re the sort of person who considers a balance of everything – features, core sound quality, usability, and demands competency in all of those aspects but gives a heavy weight to sound quality, I would say that the iAudio is definitely worth looking into. It’s got a very decent core sound quality in all codecs, along with the ability to change the flavour as you see fit. So you can have your cake and eat it, unlike the Nano for example. Featurewise, few other players can beat this thing right now. And it is pretty usable once you get past having to use your nail to prod controls, as the touchscreen does give you some interface advantages.
The 808 is closure for me of sorts – this is probably the last Sony I’ll be given, as opposed to actually going out and buying one. I do hope one day that there is a Sony that I find is worth actually buying after a comparison, because I think their hardware guys still haven't lost their touch and the 808 could be the best piece of portable hardware to come out of Sony as of late. Every hardware and firmware aspect of this has been sweated over and it really shows – purely when considered as a standalone player it is absolutely one of my all-time faves. It's just that their software and legal guys have never had the touch to begin with and that screws the pooch for the 'whole player experience'. The fact that it doesn’t actually exhibit any notable superiority in terms of actual sound quality in comparison to many other players out there is another mark against it as a clear ‘Head-Fi’ contender.
The Vibez’ problems in the audio department with source material which actually justifies the hyped playback quality of this device, allied to the fact that it’s not got the stand-out best audio stage out there reveals the Vibez to be not a panacea for SQ-maniacs, unless perhaps you want to believe it's the best (And there are at least a couple of players out there for which I could say the same thing – and one of them has a digital amp) as many of you out there already have done. The shortest battery life here by a notable margin also marks it down a notch. In terms of design, UI, etc the Vibez didn’t make anywhere near the impression on me that the Sony did, but nevertheless it’s competent and the battery is replaceable (although as in the case of other superceded players with replaceable cells, it remains to be seen whether the cells remain available).
[size=xx-small]Gratuitous picture: The coolest DAP clock yet brought to you by Sony. [/size]
[size=xx-small]Gratuitous picture #2: VU meters are also cool. Vibez brings back the Karma VU display mode.[/size]
Coming back to the start, you can probably see by now what I mean when I said I wouldn't buy either. The Vibez deserves credit for bringing back the Karma in a slightly more modernised form... but I think it’s taken a step back in several areas. And the Sony... a potential surefire hit is crippled by Chronistage. There are better packages on the market depending on what you want, and I would say that one of those options would be the D2. And I don’t think this is everything I have to say about the Vibez or the 808, but in the interests of the post becoming out of context I’ll put this much out there now.
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Ok,
Well I have an update to the background static issue with the Vibez. It is most definitely associated with the equalizer. When the eq is flat, it is not present. However when I have any freq. band raised, it is present. Also when it is flat, it does make the static sound a bit when adjusting volume. But when it is constant while listening with the eq on at all, it makes listening to quiet passages very distracting.
Very frustrating. I have an email in to customer support at Amazon requesting them to replace the unit. I hope the next one doesn't have this problem. It seems Trekstor needs to work on their qc a bit.
-Chris.
Well I have an update to the background static issue with the Vibez. It is most definitely associated with the equalizer. When the eq is flat, it is not present. However when I have any freq. band raised, it is present. Also when it is flat, it does make the static sound a bit when adjusting volume. But when it is constant while listening with the eq on at all, it makes listening to quiet passages very distracting.
Very frustrating. I have an email in to customer support at Amazon requesting them to replace the unit. I hope the next one doesn't have this problem. It seems Trekstor needs to work on their qc a bit.
-Chris.
bangraman
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It's in all likelihood not a QC issue. The EQ was buggy on the Karma, and it is buggy on the Vibez in much the same way - even putting static issues to one side. The hope though is of course that Trekstor is a going concern and that hopefully they should be able to sort it out. Although you have to wonder if 'Avalon' was in development for a long time and if this is the result, then what the hell did they do in the intervening years?
MiG(TM)
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Sonic Stage really isn't that bad... and i like Bass, for years on end, i've thought why can't i have serious Bass from a portable, and you know what, Sony players usually have the upper hand in dishing out the most Bass.We all have huge set-ups at home that can probably deliver earth shattering, banging Bass, yet no-one seems to care that this is not available on a portable market. I for one care.
I do believe that the standard Sony sound signature is a little bland, but once tweaked with a bit of EQ, i find it to be one of the most pleasurable sound from any MP3 Player.
As a lot of people say, mostly, sound is down to personal preference. But the Sony sure as hell looks damnn good, as you admit, sounds good, and is well thought out.
Sonic Stage ? Bleh, if going to file --> import tracks is taking an age on your "quad core" computer, you need to realise something. Most software is still only single threaded, therefore, your 4 cores doesn't mean jack diddly squat. It maybe a tad slow, but it sure as hell aint the dinasaur you make it out to be.. It's actually pretty quick at transferring tracks, much quicker than i ever found iTunes to be.
| Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif <snipped> |
Sonic Stage really isn't that bad... and i like Bass, for years on end, i've thought why can't i have serious Bass from a portable, and you know what, Sony players usually have the upper hand in dishing out the most Bass.We all have huge set-ups at home that can probably deliver earth shattering, banging Bass, yet no-one seems to care that this is not available on a portable market. I for one care.
I do believe that the standard Sony sound signature is a little bland, but once tweaked with a bit of EQ, i find it to be one of the most pleasurable sound from any MP3 Player.
As a lot of people say, mostly, sound is down to personal preference. But the Sony sure as hell looks damnn good, as you admit, sounds good, and is well thought out.
Sonic Stage ? Bleh, if going to file --> import tracks is taking an age on your "quad core" computer, you need to realise something. Most software is still only single threaded, therefore, your 4 cores doesn't mean jack diddly squat. It maybe a tad slow, but it sure as hell aint the dinasaur you make it out to be.. It's actually pretty quick at transferring tracks, much quicker than i ever found iTunes to be.
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Quote:
Aw great... since I like my music eq'd some, this is a huge concern. Do you think there's any chance a replacement unit would be free of this static associated with the eq? I'll also check my coworker's Vibez on Tuesday. Hopefully that will shed some further light on if I have a defective unit. I really like this player otherwise, and hope to get one that is free of problems because I think I'd keep this one for a long time to come.
Thanks, Chris.
Quote:
How low is the bass tunable on the eq on the Sony? I like that you can tune down to 20hz on the Vibez.. and hope that you can affect that part of the freq range on the Sony.
cheers.
| Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's in all likelihood not a QC issue. The EQ was buggy on the Karma, and it is buggy on the Vibez in much the same way - even putting static issues to one side. The hope though is of course that Trekstor is a going concern and that hopefully they should be able to sort it out. Although you have to wonder if 'Avalon' was in development for a long time and if this is the result, then what the hell did they do in the intervening years? |
Aw great... since I like my music eq'd some, this is a huge concern. Do you think there's any chance a replacement unit would be free of this static associated with the eq? I'll also check my coworker's Vibez on Tuesday. Hopefully that will shed some further light on if I have a defective unit. I really like this player otherwise, and hope to get one that is free of problems because I think I'd keep this one for a long time to come.
Thanks, Chris.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by MiG™ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sonic Stage really isn't that bad... and i like Bass, for years on end, i've thought why can't i have serious Bass from a portable, and you know what, Sony players usually have the upper hand in dishing out the most Bass.We all have huge set-ups at home that can probably deliver earth shattering, banging Bass, yet no-one seems to care that this is not available on a portable market. I for one care. I do believe that the standard Sony sound signature is a little bland, but once tweaked with a bit of EQ, i find it to be one of the most pleasurable sound from any MP3 Player. As a lot of people say, mostly, sound is down to personal preference. But the Sony sure as hell looks damnn good, as you admit, sounds good, and is well thought out. |
How low is the bass tunable on the eq on the Sony? I like that you can tune down to 20hz on the Vibez.. and hope that you can affect that part of the freq range on the Sony.
cheers.
bangraman
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Quote:
All right. I can rephrase it. On one of the fastest off-the-shelf personal computers you can buy today, it - and importing is the least of Chronicstage's problems - runs slower than iTunes 7 does on a 4 year old PC. Happy? Its not just that Chronicstage is slow: It's also poorly thought out in comparison to what else is out there once you get beyond being a complete n00b. DAP-loader-wise if iTunes is a GED, j.River / Mediamonkey / etc is college and Foobar is grad school, then Chronicstage is sixth grade.
And when I refer to a bass hump, I'm not talking about a clearly elevated bass. All the players mentioned in this thread can do an increased bass without problems. I'm talking about a very subtle variation in the 'flat' sound.
| Originally Posted by MiG™ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sonic Stage ? Bleh, if going to file --> import tracks is taking an age on your "quad core" computer, you need to realise something. Most software is still only single threaded, therefore, your 4 cores doesn't mean jack diddly squat. |
All right. I can rephrase it. On one of the fastest off-the-shelf personal computers you can buy today, it - and importing is the least of Chronicstage's problems - runs slower than iTunes 7 does on a 4 year old PC. Happy? Its not just that Chronicstage is slow: It's also poorly thought out in comparison to what else is out there once you get beyond being a complete n00b. DAP-loader-wise if iTunes is a GED, j.River / Mediamonkey / etc is college and Foobar is grad school, then Chronicstage is sixth grade.
And when I refer to a bass hump, I'm not talking about a clearly elevated bass. All the players mentioned in this thread can do an increased bass without problems. I'm talking about a very subtle variation in the 'flat' sound.
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bangraman- thanks btw for the epic comparo of the 3 players you wrote up. Very helpful. How do you like the eq on the Cowon D2? I think I saw somewhere that the D2 will be coming out soon in an 8gig version. That may be another top choice too because I currently have about 6.5 gig of music on my player, and 8 is about all I could really see needing max.
bangraman
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The D2 has an SD/HC slot. 8Gb SDHC's currently go for about $80 and they can only go lower as time progresses.
I don't really use EQ beyond assessing what impact it has on the SQ but as far as I can hear and see, the D2 effects seems to have fewer bugs than the Karma/Vibez'. The D2 doesn't just have EQ. If you're worried about being able to turn up the bass, then the D2 has a range of DSP FX to handle that. I don't particularly like any of them, but you might... and they do surely work as advertised.
For anything else D2 related I suggest you ask in a separate thread or go to iaudiophile.
I don't really use EQ beyond assessing what impact it has on the SQ but as far as I can hear and see, the D2 effects seems to have fewer bugs than the Karma/Vibez'. The D2 doesn't just have EQ. If you're worried about being able to turn up the bass, then the D2 has a range of DSP FX to handle that. I don't particularly like any of them, but you might... and they do surely work as advertised.
For anything else D2 related I suggest you ask in a separate thread or go to iaudiophile.
Mr Do
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I have none of the problems with static or track gaps as mentioned earlier with my Vibez. I use the EQ all the time with flac and mp3 lame extreme without a glitch. Go figure. Touch screen is not for me. Trust your onwn ears not what others say especially if they are using a faulty device.
Enjoy.
Do!
Enjoy.
Do!
bangraman
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Quote:
Especially if what you read disagrees with the opinion you've formed in isolation
The issue is finding out whether you have a faulty device, isn't it. I have of course raised it as a problem, but since everything else works fine there was no particularly good reason for me to peg it down to a specific unit fault. I will of course update the thread if it's solved for me by an update or replacement.
As a matter of interest what FLAC encoding setting(s) are you using? I've tried a variety from 4 to 6, with various different settings. Here's what I get with 6, no other non-defaults. It's not a quarter-second break actually... it's more like a half-second break.
I'm sure you can see the initial 'blip' in that break, and a tiny portion of that 'blip' bit was what used to happen with the Karmas along with the HDD spin-up noise (I couldn't imagine there being 4 faulty Karmas in a row, can you?).
| Originally Posted by Mr Do /img/forum/go_quote.gif Trust your onwn ears not what others say |
Especially if what you read disagrees with the opinion you've formed in isolation
The issue is finding out whether you have a faulty device, isn't it. I have of course raised it as a problem, but since everything else works fine there was no particularly good reason for me to peg it down to a specific unit fault. I will of course update the thread if it's solved for me by an update or replacement.
As a matter of interest what FLAC encoding setting(s) are you using? I've tried a variety from 4 to 6, with various different settings. Here's what I get with 6, no other non-defaults. It's not a quarter-second break actually... it's more like a half-second break.
I'm sure you can see the initial 'blip' in that break, and a tiny portion of that 'blip' bit was what used to happen with the Karmas along with the HDD spin-up noise (I couldn't imagine there being 4 faulty Karmas in a row, can you?).
chowk
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bangraman - thanks for the great comparison between the DAPs. I wasn't considering the Vibez or the 808, but it's very informative to see how they and the D2 stack up against each other.
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