[johnjen]

  Please redirect me if these questions have been summarized in threads I haven't come across yet:
I'd be helped by a run-down of the mods you have done that have done the trick?
 
I have not written up all of the mods I've made to my 800's, mostly because writing them up would be a laborious task and probably not 'precise' enough.
I have performed these tweaks on one other pair of 800S's, but that is the extent of their propagation.
And again I'm mid-stream on where I'll eventually wind up.
 
Could I get similar results with digital EQ?
 
I use EQ as well to help 'balance' out the results of the hardware mods and to bring up the bottom end along, with several other tweaks.
I have listed my EQ in the Cookbook thread (see below).
But I did start out with the easier to implement EQ from Sonarworks, which is very nice.
By itself EQ will help a bunch, but it doesn't deal with what my mods are doing, which I pointed at in my last post of the 'Better' series.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/585#post_12677244
 
I see comments about  SQ differences between older serial number 800's vs newer ones.  Are these subjective comparisons or have the 800's gone through several versions under the same name since introduction?  Thanks McC

I too have seen these comments but I figure there is a greater variation between units than a generational 'design' change.
There are many people who post their response curves from Sennheiser and they all are just a bit different, which leads me to this conclusion.
 
Also in my 'Cookbook' thread  I have touched upon these mods and many related topics all of which are derivatives of the results of all of my fussings.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook
 
I bring this up because it is the entire system and not just the 800's that 'allows' me to tweak them to this level of performance.
I think of it as, as the system gets out of its own way, I can more easily tell if changes are 'Better' to and with finer and finer degrees of SQ.
IOW as more precise 'tools' are brought to bare, one can dial in the degree of precision of the entire system, all the more.
 
Also when tweaking to this extent, the ability to adjust the amounts of change introduced by these tweaks, well those that can be adjusted (EQ, vibration management, ac power delivery, etc.), will often need to be (re)adjusted multiple times as other CP's (Choke Points) are removed from the system.
IOW this is an ongoing process of dialing in the entire system and not just one aspect in isolation (like the 800's).
 
And lastly if you lived in the seattle area I could mod your 800's for you, and show you how to adjust them to suit your requirements rather than mine.
This is where the 'final' adjustments come into play, with your system driving your 800's and taking into account what you desire out of your system.
 
JJ

 

[Beolab]

Back to topic guys ? =)

 

[McClelland]

  I too have seen these comments but I figure there is a greater variation between units than a generational 'design' change.
There are many people who post their response curves from Sennheiser and they all are just a bit different, which leads me to this conclusion.
 
Also in my 'Cookbook' thread  I have touched upon these mods and many related topics all of which are derivatives of the results of all of my fussings.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook

Thanks for your very helpful response.  Will review the cookbook and will pursue further discussions outside this thread.

 

[musicinmymind]

 

   
Thanks for the info.
 
That's a good point. My best friend is actually the person who started the Abyss impressions thread, and he also likes his HD 800 (even in stock form) more overall. I haven't spent enough time with them to know for sure which I prefer, but it seems those mods are the real deal, and at a significantly lower cost.
If you publish a comprehensive tutorial on your best modifications, be sure to PM me the link!

 
Oh, and I am especially curious how a stock HD 800 with only the "triple mod" (but not SAA or other mods) measures up.

Say there…
I've listened to the Abyss and while they certainly can be impressive, for what I treasure in listening to music, they strike me as affectatious, in that while they can be initially quite impressive, they wouldn't withstand the test of time, at least for me.
IOW they sounded too good, too impressive, which is a phenomenon I learned about and wrote in my post about the Bose 901 speakers in the cookbook thread.
 
The mods I have made to my 800's are extensive and involving but, as is my intention, fully reversible.
I have only applied these tweaks to one other set of 800S's and that owner is still fussing and figuring.
 
The thing is, when the degree of system resolution takes a mother may I step up, (which can happen with mods to the 800's) then the rest of the system, with all of its strengths and weaknesses, becomes an issue, or can be depending upon what your criteria for what truly is 'Better'.
 
My mod to the 800's are very different than anything I have seen elsewhere, as it addresses different operational criteria.
I aim my mods at vibration management, and not at dampening frequency 'aberrations'.
 
Also it should be noted that whenever one starts mucking around with a given design and changing it, there are ALWAYS unexpected consequences, especially when the design is 'tight' in the first place.
 
And 800's are a VERY tight design with multiple design solutions seemingly buried in unsuspecting components which makes for a complex interaction between various acoustic and electrical and mechanical components.
IOW when 800's are modded some of their operational parameters (those that can be measured) can tend to look 'worse' than stock.
IOW I am still experimenting with the specifics of how I apply my mods.
And it takes a while to do this because I have to let these changes fully settle in before I fully know if they truly are 'Better', or not.
 
However, for me anyway, what I aim at is a superior musical experience, and I continue to refine the implementation of what and how I mod the 800's to dial them in, which allows the music I listen to, to 'blossom' and reach new levels of SQ.
 
And the triple tweaks are usable for any headphone (assuming a suitable EQ curve is available) as they mostly address whole system tweaks.
The Sonarworks compensation for the 800's is or can be, a real eye opener, and when used along with the SSBB and PRT can be transformative, again if the rest of the system isn't the limiting factor.
 
JJ

 
I did not understand what PRT means, is there any photo which I use for the mod?

 

[Torq]

   
I did not understand what PRT means, is there any photo which I use for the mod?

Phase Reversal Trick - inverting polarity on one side of a the amplifiers output (or headphone/speaker cables), while also inverting the signal to the DAC on that channel, to allow both sides of the amps power rails to be more evenly utilized while maintaining correct phase.
 
Works with speakers.
 
Needs a balanced headphone connection to use with cans.

 

[musicinmymind]

 

   
I did not understand what PRT means, is there any photo which I use for the mod?

Phase Reversal Trick - inverting polarity on one side of a the amplifiers output (or headphone/speaker cables), while also inverting the signal to the DAC on that channel, to allow both sides of the amps power rails to be more evenly utilized while maintaining correct phase.
 
Works with speakers.
 
Needs a balanced headphone connection to use with cans.

 
I use Devialet 120 which is all in one box, there is no separate DAC and AMP. If I understand correctly I cannot do Phase Reversal Trick, right?

 

[Torq]

I use Devialet 120 which is all in one box, there is no separate DAC and AMP. If I understand correctly I cannot do Phase Reversal Trick, right?

Yes, you could do it with the Devialet 120, but only via one of its digital inputs.

First you need to invert the polarity of one channel feeding the digital input of the unit. You do this in your player software - things like JRiver can do it directly, for others you may need a plug-in. And then you swap the polarity from the speaker connection that corresponds with the channel you inverted. That's it.

I don't recall if the Devialet has a headphone output. If so, you could only do it if it is balanced and it would require a specially configured balanced cable for your headphones in order to work. Otherwise you could do swap phase either at the pre-out to headphone amplifier connection or, again, more likely in the balanced headphone cable.

Doubt the gains would be as big with the Devialet, compared to some other units, though - due to the nature of its power supply.

 

[musicinmymind]

 

I use Devialet 120 which is all in one box, there is no separate DAC and AMP. If I understand correctly I cannot do Phase Reversal Trick, right?

Yes, you could do it with the Devialet 120, but only via one of its digital inputs.

First you need to invert the polarity of one channel feeding the digital input of the unit. You do this in your player software - things like JRiver can do it directly, for others you may need a plug-in. And then you swap the polarity from the speaker connection that corresponds with the channel you inverted. That's it.

I don't recall if the Devialet has a headphone output. If so, you could only do it if it is balanced and it would require a specially configured balanced cable for your headphones in order to work. Otherwise you could do swap phase either at the pre-out to headphone amplifier connection or, again, more likely in the balanced headphone cable.

Doubt the gains would be as big with the Devialet, compared to some other units, though - due to the nature of its power supply.

 
Thanks a lot, I am using JRiver and will try this. 
 
I run HE-6, HD-800 and Kef LS50 directly from speaker out. I have preconfigured power supply, max volts into three different SD cards and very happy with output. 
 
No hiss or loss in dynamics with HE-6 or even with HD800.

 

[johnjen]

 
Phase Reversal Trick - inverting polarity on one side of a the amplifiers output (or headphone/speaker cables), while also inverting the signal to the DAC on that channel, to allow both sides of the amps power rails to be more evenly utilized while maintaining correct phase.
 
Works with speakers.
 
Needs a balanced headphone connection to use with cans.

One additional possibility is to reverse the wiring at the driver itself.
 
This course of action is probably only applicable for those who are 'hands on' experienced and willing to disassemble the cans enough to perform this mod and then undo it, if it proves to be too much of a hassle.
 
 
And Torq we missed you at the last meet. 
Musiqboys rig with the RN3 and pair of Mutec's etc was performing really well, especially after getting tweaked… 

 
JJ

 

[johnjen]

   
I did not understand what PRT means, is there any photo which I use for the mod?

For a more complete description, here is a link.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/210#post_12300653
 
JJ

 

[Torq]

  One additional possibility is to reverse the wiring at the driver itself.
 
This course of action is probably only applicable for those who are 'hands on' experienced and willing to disassemble the cans enough to perform this mod and then undo it, if it proves to be too much of a hassle.
 
 
And Torq we missed you at the last meet. 
Musiqboys rig with the RN3 and pair of Mutec's etc was performing really well, especially after getting tweaked… 

 
JJ

 
It would have been fun to be there ... but that would have meant cutting my vacation short!
 
I expect I'll make the next one.
 
How does he have the RN3 configured with two Mutecs?  I'm assuming one as the clock, but the other?
 
I finally get to sit down and fiddle with my RN3 tomorrow (Tuesday) night.  Can't wait to see how that goes, and how it compares with my existing ethernet interfaces.  It's taken way too long to get everything else out of the way (though the speaker system is finally all re-setup and working much better than the prior configuration).

 

[johnjen]

He is running the 2 Mutec's in series and was running SPDIF out of the RN3 to the 1st Mutec then AES from there thu the 2nd Mutec then to his Theta Dac.
So in essence he his reclocking his AES data stream twice before passing it along to the dac.
 
At the meet we swapped out his lone SPDIF cable for the AES breakout cable I made for gefski.
Which resulted in yet another step up.
I also noticed a step up from (a tweako Oyide) SPDIF to even a bare bones breakout AES cable.
Then I switched to the AS Statement Silver AES cable, which I am enjoying even as I write this. 

 
As a result Musiqboy and I are figur'n on making a set of AES cables for his whole setup.
 
JJ

 

[Torq]

  He is running the 2 Mutec's in series and was running SPDIF out of the RN3 to the 1st Mutec then AES from there thu the 2nd Mutec then to his Theta Dac.
So in essence he his reclocking his AES data stream twice before passing it along to the dac.
 
At the meet we swapped out his lone SPDIF cable for the AES breakout cable I made for gefski.
Which resulted in yet another step up.
I also noticed a step up from (a tweako Oyide) SPDIF to even a bare bones breakout AES cable.
Then I switched to the AS Statement Silver AES cable, which I am enjoying even as I write this. 

 
As a result Musiqboy and I are figur'n on making a set of AES cables for his whole setup.
 
JJ

Fascinating!
 
I'm going to start with just a standard DB25 -> XLR connection.  I was thinking, earlier today, that I might compare all three outputs, but I had forgotten that the optical outputs are ADAT not S/PDIF (I knew when I ordered the thing; but that was nearly two months ago ...).  I will compare the standard S/PDIF coax and XLR connections though.
 
Then, once I'm through my comparisons of various network audio interfaces I'll go grab a Mutec MC3+ (had one on loan, but didn't buy it) and see how things go from there.  Maybe I'll get the version with USB support, just so I have it for future interface comparisons.
 
What's the best source for buying a Mutec here?  Markertek?

 

[Torq]

Oh, and while I think about it ... despite my general disdain for USB audio (not really related to the above posts, the Mutec thing just made me think about it) ...
 
Next time we get together, whenever that might be (hopefully soon), remind me to tell you about an idea (or design, really) I have for a USB "cable" (it's a bit more than that) for audio purposes.
 
(Superfluous, additional, parenthetical comment for good measure).

 

[johnjen]

I'm not sure where the 'best' place to get a Mutec from would be, but I'd imagine that any place that even has one in stock might be the 'best'.
And Markertek is probably as good as B&H or Sweetwater etc. or any of the other pro audio sources.
And the USB demarcation for the Mutec is really about an updated clock that it has, that its 'younger' brother (the non usb equipped version) doesn't have.
 
And there are other DDC's appearing on the horizon that are vying for a top position on this ladder, but they all seem to be even more expensive, imagine that… 

 
Which brings up the question of where truly is the most bang for the buck in terms of these standalone clocks and reclockers and DDC's and the like.
They all seem to be taking the SQ up a step or 2+, especially in combinations…
 
Which just makes my head scratch as I wonder What is really, as in the big picture, going on with all of this.
It is a puzzle for sure.
 
Yeah I was sorta hoping that the ADAT ports were SPDIF as well, but I kinda figur'd AES would trounce it anyway.
 
And starting with a 'simple' AES breakout cable is a good place to start.
One of the tricks to making that cable is getting as close to an 'audio grade' DB-25 as possible.
And even using pro audio grade 110Ω cable has great results.
 
I just finished modding my RN3 and buttoned it back up.
And of course this re-starts the break-in clock all over again.
 
And Yeah I look forward to our next mini meet or what ever it turns into.
Techno-Talk always has that spark of creativity interspersed between what if, and oh wow…

 
JJ
ps "(Superfluous, additional, parenthetical comment for good measure)." is another example of sigline gold…