[qboogie]

ZMF Verite open and closed, they're veiled in the mids, don't scale regardless of amp and dac, can't do a proper stereo image, very disappointing low end for the closed one and many caveats on using them. Good for mid-fi but doesn't cut the mustard for high end. Nice wood, overpriced and average sound, beryllium marketing. Hideous practice needing to buy 500$ worth of pads to find the goldilocks one, maybe and then you forget which is which since they're not marked. As disappointing as the Empyrean.

All in all the expectations were quite high based on the overwhelming hype and there are multiple small niggles that add up to a big disappointment and the sound quality doesn't compensate. From a product standpoint it's an expensive luxury item and certain expectations are not met given the price point regardless if it's mass produced or custom made. When users are constantly making excuses for the shortcomings and actively deter others from posting negative first impressions it's a warning sign, most expensive headphones are ruthlessly criticised, for some reason you can't do the same here without being called out.

It's true about members in the thread not tolerating criticism about the VC/VO. Most of the time, dissatisfied customers are told to forward the complaints directly to Zach/Bevin instead of publicly, which is fair because they actually have great customer service and are pretty accommodating. Because they are a small business, users are very protective of them. That being said, I'm surprised to find the VC in this thread. I think it's a superior headphone to the VO, especially with the mids.

I hear you about the pad swapping. It adds a bit of anxiety knowing that they can change the listening experience so much that you can feel like you're missing out on your perfect sound. But that's the hifi game for you, I guess. Everything single component can change the sound. For ZMF, pad rolling can alter the sound as much as changing tubes, DACs and amps can. That seems to be by design.

 

[number1sixerfan]

It's true about members in the thread not tolerating criticism about the VC/VO. Most of the time, dissatisfied customers are told to forward the complaints directly to Zach/Bevin instead of publicly, which is fair because they actually have great customer service and are pretty accommodating. Because they are a small business, users are very protective of them. That being said, I'm surprised to find the VC in this thread. I think it's a superior headphone to the VO, especially with the mids.

I hear you about the pad swapping. It adds a bit of anxiety knowing that they can change the listening experience so much that you can feel like you're missing out on your perfect sound. But that's the hifi game for you, I guess. Everything single component can change the sound. For ZMF, pad rolling can alter the sound as much as changing tubes, DACs and amps can. That seems to be by design.

I disagree with some* of the criticisms mentioned above of the VC, but definitely agree about the fanboyism in that thread.. it's just too much. I had to stop visiting it. Which is a shame because the owners of the brand seem so down to earth, accessible and transparent.

For anyone trying to make more sense of the VC (all I have heard), it definitely is a bit flat in nature, which some will prefer and some won't.. and could probably use a smidge more of bass quantity. But they absolutely scale really well, I can for sure attest to that (going from Hugo 2/Mini to Dave/Wa33). They also ARE absolutely hi-fi and don't fall far too short of the capabilities of TOTL headphones twice their price. They do have the same closed in effect that I've experienced with almost every closed can.. initially they can sound a bit veiled until adjusted. That plus the lack of color/warmth and I can see how some wouldn't warm up to it. I'll eventually let mine go because the Susvara/TC/009 just do everything better, but I would have to say it's definitely top tier imho.

 

[Shahrose]

Not great. About the same as the Utopias. I have kept my Susvaras because of the amazing midrange, the resolution, and the soundstage. That said, I never listen to hip-hop with them. The Susvaras are only used for rock, some metal, and indie.

I disagree with this. The Susvaras can slam and rumble hard. It depends on the amp, though they fall just short of the Abyss TC.
The Utopias can be made to punch in the midbass but they simply cannot produce subbass of the planars regardless of the ancillaries driving them.

 

[paradoxper]

I disagree with this. The Susvaras can slam and rumble hard. It depends on the amp, though they fall just short of the Abyss TC.
The Utopias can be made to punch in the midbass but they simply cannot produce subbass of the planars regardless of the ancillaries driving them.

Agreed. Susvara can give slam and punch -- on the levels of the HE-6 which was sort of revelatory at their time.
Now, the TC is just a different plane as that subbass can make you feel the walls move.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Haha, I'm not sure for those ones. But I remember the 800 series being the case as there were a handful of review articles about the Golden Reference stack back in the day. Certainly enough to really plant the seed that made me finally grab the amps 5 years later.

That's cool to know the 600i+HD600 are a nice pairing. I actually wonder how the CMA800R Goldens compare to the newer gear in Questyle's lineup, like your 600i and the newer Twelve. For sure the 600i+HD600 represent a great cost/performance offering if it's like you say.

A single of CMA800R Golden is still great even till theses days. It does surprise me with superb black background, realistic vocal presentation, and balance through all spectrum. Actually I like it even more than single ended on CMA 12 Master. However when compare with the balance amplification of 12 master, the newer Questyle does better job on all spectrum.

Unfortunately I don't have access for one more 800R Golden to try the stack.

 

[TDinCali]

Alright, my turn....This isn't really a TOTL product but it isn't cheap. I received my Astell & Kern Kann Cube. I ordered it specifically because of the power it can generate so it has enough juice to power my Abyss Diana V2....Well, disappointed is definitely a term I would use to describe my impression. I realize it's a DAP and it's not an apples to apples comparison but my Hugo 2 is a lot better better in terms of the quality of the audio and how it drives the Abyss Diana V2. Anyone need a barely used A&K Kann cube for 1/2 price??

 

[Deolum]

Alright, my turn....This isn't really a TOTL product but it isn't cheap. I received my Astell & Kern Kann Cube. I ordered it specifically because of the power it can generate so it has enough juice to power my Abyss Diana V2....Well, disappointed is definitely a term I would use to describe my impression. I realize it's a DAP and it's not an apples to apples comparison but my Hugo 2 is a lot better better in terms of the quality of the audio and how it drives the Abyss Diana V2. Anyone need a barely used A&K Kann cube for 1/2 price??

Honestly i was never impressed by A&K DAPs. You clearly pay for the name and the build quality there. Their entry models close to one grand sounded worse than the Fiio ones for half the price but of course their UI and quality felt superior.

When i demoed the A&K flagship DAP with the VE8 i was very unimpressed even though the VE8 was exactly my taste. But the difference between this 5k setup and a "normal" IEM setup was so small that it ended my search for high end IEMs completely. Since then i'm completely happy with midrange mobile stuff.

 

[nassq8]

Anyone disappointed with the HD800S: go demo it with the Moon 430HAD and then come back and thank me. Beyond the WA33, my HD800S has sounded terrible with every other amp I’ve tried. DAC matters, too, which is why is say 430HAD and not HA. Sony’s $2k (TA-ZH1ES) DAC is good, too, for those needing an alternative. Just don’t bother with the amp section.

or HD800S + Dave + WA2 with 5998 tubes = The end of my audiophile search for classical and instrumental genres.

 

[Benny-x]

A single of CMA800R Golden is still great even till theses days. It does surprise me with superb black background, realistic vocal presentation, and balance through all spectrum. Actually I like it even more than single ended on CMA 12 Master. However when compare with the balance amplification of 12 master, the newer Questyle does better job on all spectrum.

Unfortunately I don't have access for one more 800R Golden to try the stack.

Thanks for the feedback on that, that's cool to hear.

And yeah, I was in the same boat. It took me about a year to find a pair of CMA800R Goldens. They don't come up often, and when they did I still had to find a pair that were in perfect condition and at a reasonable price. But I'm dn happy to have them now. Good luck with your search.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

ZMF Verite open and closed, they're veiled in the mids, don't scale regardless of amp and dac, can't do a proper stereo image, very disappointing low end for the closed one and many caveats on using them. Good for mid-fi but doesn't cut the mustard for high end. Nice wood, overpriced and average sound, beryllium marketing. Hideous practice needing to buy 500$ worth of pads to find the goldilocks one, maybe and then you forget which is which since they're not marked. As disappointing as the Empyrean.

All in all the expectations were quite high based on the overwhelming hype and there are multiple small niggles that add up to a big disappointment and the sound quality doesn't compensate. From a product standpoint it's an expensive luxury item and certain expectations are not met given the price point regardless if it's mass produced or custom made. When users are constantly making excuses for the shortcomings and actively deter others from posting negative first impressions it's a warning sign, most expensive headphones are ruthlessly criticised, for some reason you can't do the same here without being called out.

The market disagrees with you. If you look at the resale value of ZMF headphones, they outperform virtually all brands in terms of percentage of MSRP retained. Yours is just one opinion of many. I own the ZMF Verite closed and I enjoyed the process of tuning the headphones to the sound that is perfect for me. I also own a Bottlehead Crack which requires similar tuning. I was skeptical of the frequency response curve, but I learned 2 very important things in my discovery process with the VC. First, technically, the VC are top tier. All of the best reviewers agree with this. If anything, it's the tuning people have a problem with. If you know how to EQ, you can tune them to the same curve as any other headphone and they are spectacular in that mode. Plus, if you find the correct pairing for you as I have done, you get a flavor of sound that you enjoy that you can't get anywhere else. Is it delusional? It's possible, but who cares as long as I consistently love the sound which I do.

 

[m17xr2b]

There's no point in arguing, all headphones are the best with any gear, just EQ to preference.

 

[LCMusicLover]

For me:

HE-6se -- maybe not enough amp. I tried with my Audio-gd Master 11 with extra gain. Plenty of headroom on the volume knob, but just not compelling. Might have been set up by reverence expressed for original and modded HE-6. But bottom line, nothing about this can made me prefer it to HEKse.

HD-800S -- I probably needed to be a classical fan. But while comfort is great, and the headstage is vast, I found I preferred my (slightly claustrophobic) Utopia or my open/airy HEKse when I wanted a detail monster. Again, possibly would change my opinion with the 'right' amp, but apparently that's not any of the amps I tried.

A2 Yggy -- I really thought I'd be amazed by this DAC. And folks tell me that if I had been listening to it in a 2-channel system in a well-treated room I would be blown away. But with my headphone-only system, I couldn't find a reason to prefer it over an A1 Gumby.

And finally, NOT a disappointment:

Blackwood Auteur -- Lot's of ZMF chatter here lately. I get that ZMF might have 'non-traditional' tunings. And I'm not familiar with their entire line of products. But, to me, Auteur has been the 'never, never, never sell these' member of my stable from the day I received them.

No question that there is a lot of 'fanboi-ism' surrounding ZMF products. But the same is true of other product families. Folks will 'attack the attackers', sorry about that, pull up your big-girl/boy pants Part of that comes from the nature of the attacks. It's one thing to say 'I don't like this' or 'not enough bass' or 'not as good as xxx for the same/less money'. It's another thing to say 'bad, over-hyped product' or to attack the human beings who run the business. One might not prefer Zach's cans, but he seems like a genuine, sincere person who is trying his best to make quality products which fulfill his vision, to say nothing of his lovely partner-in-crime.

As far a 'value', they certainly are a 'luxury item' as a poster pointed out. Really, the same could be said of most any headphone costing more than an HD-6xx, and certainly of headphones costing $1k+. At some point the 'value' discussion starts to feel like people arguing about whether a Bugatti or a Lamborghini is a better 'value' -- silly.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

See, all you've done is prove my point, one can't say say they don't like the verite and they're not flagship quality even when ran on 10K+ amps and dacs but you're insisting it's top tier on a bottlehead crack. Why do you feel the need to correct my experience and force your own when it comes to ZMF?

So, your point is if anyone disagrees with you, they are correcting your experience? I didn't say you were wrong or you aren't experiencing what you do. I celebrate it and the diversity you bring to the table. Nobody likes everything. You don't like ZMF headphones. Awesome. I simply pointed out the fact that there is a large enough group of people who disagree with you that the resale value of that product is high. That's a very relevant fact when a person is weighing the decision to make a purchase or not especially without hearing them before the purchase. In addition, I am saying that my opinion is different than yours. Not better, not worse. Just different.

 

[paradoxper]

We've a new Head-Fi slogan.

If you hear it differently, you are just deaf (and as byproduct stupid.)

This is the way.

 

[Articnoise]

We've a new Head-Fi slogan.

If you hear it differently, you are just deaf (and as byproduct stupid.)

This is the way.

No no Head-fi motto is I know best.