[bfreedma]

So, your point is if anyone disagrees with you, they are correcting your experience? I didn't say you were wrong or you aren't experiencing what you do. I celebrate it and the diversity you bring to the table. Nobody likes everything. You don't like ZMF headphones. Awesome. I simply pointed out the fact that there is a large enough group of people who disagree with you that the resale value of that product is high. That's a very relevant fact when a person is weighing the decision to make a purchase or not especially without hearing them before the purchase. In addition, I am saying that my opinion is different than yours. Not better, not worse. Just different.

If the post that started this discussion had been made in a ZMF thread, I would largely agree with you. I don’t see the point of countering someone’s opinion in a thread called “TOTL disappointments” though.

 

[Poganin]

I believe the purpose of this topic is to list things that disappointed us in the audio world for one reason or another, not to prove or disprove each other's opinions on the subject why this or that was a disappointment. Accept that not everyone will like the same things and move on.

 

[number1sixerfan]

No question that there is a lot of 'fanboi-ism' surrounding ZMF products. But the same is true of other product families. Folks will 'attack the attackers', sorry about that, pull up your big-girl/boy pants Part of that comes from the nature of the attacks. It's one thing to say 'I don't like this' or 'not enough bass' or 'not as good as xxx for the same/less money'. It's another thing to say 'bad, over-hyped product' or to attack the human beings who run the business. One might not prefer Zach's cans, but he seems like a genuine, sincere person who is trying his best to make quality products which fulfill his vision, to say nothing of his lovely partner-in-crime.

See this is where the problem lies... it's the fact that fanboys perceive any sort of disagreement or critique as 'attack'. It makes no sense. Extreme critiques such as attacking a business or saying a product is complete trash isn't the norm, almost for any product family. Those are outliers. In that thread, even general critique offends people and causes a fanboy whirlwind... all over a piece of headphone equipment. As you mentioned, and I agree, it definitely happens with some* other brands as well, but it's still all quite ridiculous and childish. (and annoying lol)

edit* also wasn't calling you at all a fanboy, was saying that's how *they* generally take it.

On a slightly different/but related and positive note however, I tend to notice that in the summit-fi forum, there are a lot of people that own multiple TOTL headphones (or have) and you tend to see a lot less bias from these people because they don't have to over justify why one headphone is ultimately the best or better than everything else. So there are also quite a lot of great, low(er) biased comparisons and gems floating around this sub-forum.

 

[Revolution1]

I've never heard the HD800S sound good on an amp under $3,000

The HD800s sound great with the Unison Research SH, no external DACs.
For just 1700.

 

[Deolum]

See this is where the problem lies... it's the fact that fanboys perceive any sort of disagreement or critique as 'attack'. It makes no sense. Extreme critiques such as attacking a business or saying a product is complete trash isn't the norm, almost for any product family. Those are outliers. In that thread, even general critique offends people and causes a fanboy whirlwind... all over a piece of headphone equipment. As you mentioned, and I agree, it definitely happens with some* other brands as well, but it's still all quite ridiculous and childish. (and annoying lol)

On a slightly different/but related and positive note however, I tend to notice that in the summit-fi forum, there are a lot of people that own multiple TOTL headphones (or have) and you tend to see a lot less bias from these people because they don't have to over justify why one headphone is ultimately the best or better than everything else. So there are also quite a lot of great, low(er) biased comparisons and gems floating around this sub-forum.

I really miss more negative impressions on headfi. Especially in the subforums that are dedicated to a certain item it seems more like a gathering of fanboys than a neutral exchange. Posting negative impressions or criticism mostly triggers the same reaction: "well please leave this thread and let us continue to glorify our headphone/amp/dac or whatever". This can be very confusing to new members/guest readers and urges them to buy stuff that's actually not worth it because out of 500 impressions 495 are positive. At least it was for me and it took me some time to realize it. Now i use those dedicated forums mostly for specific questions rather than getting an overall impression on the performance of the product which is not possible due to the lack of critical comparison with other products.

 

[Vercingetirex]

Just as of today, the Fostex th-909. I just miss that planar sound and nothing seems to compete with the speed of planars. With that said I sent the Anandas back for feeling like cheap crap and the LCD2fs back for being far too heavy. I still think both sounded better than this fostex. I was thinking about the ZMF auteur, but expect more of the same disappointment because its driver is proabaly not as capable technically as even the 909. I wish the LCD2 was a lot lighter, like 450grams or less rather than the 580g neck killing weight it is now.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I really miss more negative impressions on headfi. Especially in the subforums that are dedicated to a certain item it seems more like a gathering of fanboys than a neutral exchange. Posting negative impressions or criticism mostly triggers the same reaction: "well please leave this thread and let us continue to glorify our headphone/amp/dac or whatever". This can be very confusing to new members/guest readers and urges them to buy stuff that's actually not worth it because out of 500 impressions 495 are positive. At least it was for me and it took me some time to realize it. Now i use those dedicated forums mostly for specific questions rather than getting an overall impression on the performance of the product which is not possible due to the lack of critical comparison with other products.

Exactly. That's exactly what I miss as well. Now days you have to read all 500 impressions and really put on your reading glasses to determine which 5 are truly unbiased lol

 

[Articnoise]

I really miss more negative impressions on headfi. Especially in the subforums that are dedicated to a certain item it seems more like a gathering of fanboys than a neutral exchange. Posting negative impressions or criticism mostly triggers the same reaction: "well please leave this thread and let us continue to glorify our headphone/amp/dac or whatever". This can be very confusing to new members/guest readers and urges them to buy stuff that's actually not worth it because out of 500 impressions 495 are positive. At least it was for me and it took me some time to realize it. Now i use those dedicated forums mostly for specific questions rather than getting an overall impression on the performance of the product which is not possible due to the lack of critical comparison with other products.

You are of course correct, but a few member keeps coming back over and over again to share the same negative impressions which can get a bit annoying.

 

[478423]

Just as of today, the Fostex th-909. I just miss that planar sound and nothing seems to compete with the speed of planars. With that said I sent the Anandas back for feeling like cheap crap and the LCD2fs back for being far too heavy. I still think both sounded better than this fostex. I was thinking about the ZMF auteur, but expect more of the same disappointment because its driver is proabaly not as capable technically as even the 909. I wish the LCD2 was a lot lighter, like 450grams or less rather than the 580g neck killing weight it is now.

Out of curiosity, what did you not like about them? I wanted to see more reviews of this headphones, especially ones with a more negative slant.

 

[LCMusicLover]

...I was thinking about the ZMF auteur, but expect more of the same disappointment ...

Personally I love my Auteur, but you're probably not wrong about the drivers -- others have said the same. Also, if weight is an issue, you should definitely avoid Auteur -- they are very heavy.

Light, fast planar: HEKse & Empyrean (lighter, not very light, but both very comfortable to wear) Ether 2 (lightest cans I own, half the weight of Auteur)

Not so light fast planar: RAD-0

 

[Vercingetirex]

Personally I love my Auteur, but you're probably not wrong about the drivers -- others have said the same. Also, if weight is an issue, you should definitely avoid Auteur -- they are very heavy.

Light, fast planar: HEKse & Empyrean (lighter, not very light, but both very comfortable to wear) Ether 2 (lightest cans I own, half the weight of Auteur)

Not so light fast planar: RAD-0

Supposedly with the right options you can get the Auteur down to 430-440grams, according to my emails back and forth with Zach. However as stated, it's biocellulose dynamic drivers similar to the Fostex, so can I really expect anything different. With a 10% restocking fee to return them, it makes it harder to try them. As where these Fostex can go right back to amazon for full refund.

Out of curiosity, what did you not like about them? I wanted to see more reviews of this headphones, especially ones with a more negative slant.

Without EQ the tonality, especially between 1.5-3khz was wonky. Sounded muffled almost, and as if there is an echo. Even after EQ the detail and sound just isn't what i expected from an $1800 set of headphones. Especially when as stated I was blown away by the details the cheaper Ananda and LCD-2fs offered.

 

[478423]

Supposedly with the right options you can get the Auteur down to 430-440grams, according to my emails back and forth with Zach. However as stated, it's biocellulose dynamic drivers similar to the Fostex, so can I really expect anything different. With a 10% restocking fee to return them, it makes it harder to try them. As where these Fostex can go right back to amazon for full refund.


Without EQ the tonality, especially between 1.5-3khz was wonky. Sounded muffled almost, and as if there is an echo. Even after EQ the detail and sound just isn't what i expected from an $1800 set of headphones. Especially when as stated I was blown away by the details the cheaper Ananda and LCD-2fs offered.

Thank you for that information. Seems that Fostex tends to struggle with mids some.

 

[Vercingetirex]

Thank you for that information. Seems that Fostex tends to struggle with mids some.

Yeah I feel most of the cost of the 909 went clearly into the boutique look and style of the headphone, more than the technical capabilities and tuning of the driver. I am presented with no more detail or clarity than a DT1990 pro, after A and B testing back and forth. Disappointing to say the least, considering the price difference. Might try the Focal Clear next.

 

[Deolum]

I like that the threads name has two different meanings depending on how you read it.

 

[Luckyleo]

Agreed, T1 is a great 'starter flagship'. Oodles of detail imaging and layering, the bass is nice but not inflated or overstated, but it's also authoritative when called upon.
Just be prepared to get an amp with the wattage to drive it. THX AAA 789 pairs with it amazingly and is totally affordable.

Sounds very interesting, are you talking about 2nd generation or the newest 3rd generation?