[toranku]

On the topic of clarity, a question out of pure curiosity:

From my experience you can achieve clarity through a number of different things, such as forward upper mids, forward treble, thinner notes, less bass etc etc

How do you prefer for said clarity to be accomplished? Apologies if this has been answered in the thread already

Personally my take is with the balance of everything from subbass to even upper treble. This question is a particularly hard one since it all lies in an intricate balance of everything. Even treble past 10k plays a big part here - how much its boosted affects how thin the sound can be perceived.

 

[twiceboss]

I shared some of my thoughts on the MEST on the Audio Discourse podcast MEST Roundtable, but to sum it up I felt that it was a good IEM but was recessed in its upper midrange frequencies, leading to a hazier presentation that I was not a fan of. However it does offer very good, "bouncy" and fun kind of bass.

On a technical level they are very competent as well.

man, im seriously considering for Monarch somehow... But you seem like Clair than Monarch. I thought the cleaner Monarch will appeal you better.

 

[Darkestred]

I prefer the Clairvoyance. I'm actually thinking of adding the Clairvoyance to my list of favourites. While it's pretty boring for me to listen to, I can't deny that its tonality is very well tuned.

Re: M9, I recently ommited it from my favourites since I found it too warm and lacking clarity in its intonation.

I've been looking at a lot of different people's takes on iems and comparing them to mine from crinacle to you and animus. I have been seeing tonality thrown around a lot and im curious how you (and others) measure tonality. Is it by a pitch perfect ear, matching keys on a keyboard or just personal preference with possibly no true understanding of how scales work/sound? How do you come to ahh yes this is tonally accurate?

I mainly listen to drums when i listen to music. So for instance, i own an Anole VX and ive read some reviews that say it has an odd tonality. Woudl it be the BA bass becuase i do find it off at times not necessarily in sound but where it should be.

I think the Anole is one of the most natural sounding iems out there and if im only listening to drums it can't just be drum acurate considering how vast a frequency range they cover. Of course the Anole has its faults but on iems such as the Anole and others i sometimes wonder how people come to such conclusions.

 

[Precogvision]

I've been looking at a lot of different people's takes on iems and comparing them to mine from crinacle to you and animus. I have been seeing tonality thrown around a lot and im curious how you (and others) measure tonality. Is it by a pitch perfect ear, matching keys on a keyboard or just personal preference with possibly no true understanding of how scales work/sound? How do you come to ahh yes this is tonally accurate?

I mainly listen to drums when i listen to music. So for instance, i own an Anole VX and ive read some reviews that say it has an odd tonality. Woudl it be the BA bass becuase i do find it off at times not necessarily in sound but where it should be.

I think the Anole is one of the most natural sounding iems out there and if im only listening to drums it can't just be drum acurate considering how vast a frequency range they cover. Of course the Anole has its faults but on iems such as the Anole and others i sometimes wonder how people come to such conclusions.

For me, tonality isn't necessarily what sounds natural - simply because I have next to zero experience with real instruments - but rather what I think is "least offensive" or most agreeable. Artistic liberties aren't a bad thing depending on what you're looking for. There are lots of presentations, such as the 64 Audio U12t, which I wouldn't deem "natural", but that I think have terrific tonality. I'd posit those with more experience will likewise have more nuanced understandings.

VX has an issue in that its transients are razor sharp - which isn't inherently bad, mind you, and gives it that superb resolution. But in tandem with their thinness and lack of density, it sounds unnatural, almost fatiguing at times. The treble is probably the biggest culprit of this. I think it actually has one of the better BA bass responses sans being virtually textureless. Remember, this is just my take though! It's a top-tier IEM no doubt.

 

[buonassi]

How do you come to ahh yes this is tonally accurate?

for me, I compare the sound of the instruments on IEM vs near field monitors. there's often a delicate balance between the fundamental notes and the overtones of an instrument. after a little experience, you can easily tell when there is too much (or too little) emphasis on overtones.

decent free field monitors setup properly are the yard stick for me.

 

[1TrickPony]

for me, I compare the sound of the instruments on IEM vs near field monitors. there's often a delicate balance between the fundamental notes and the overtones of an instrument. after a little experience, you can easily tell when there is too much (or too little) emphasis on overtones.

decent free field monitors setup properly are the yard stick for me.

This post is a total win for audiophilia. Bruv, hats off. This should be obvious to seasoned folk regardless whether or not you've heard the most technical set. Thanks for putting this out.

 

[toranku]

I've been looking at a lot of different people's takes on iems and comparing them to mine from crinacle to you and animus. I have been seeing tonality thrown around a lot and im curious how you (and others) measure tonality. Is it by a pitch perfect ear, matching keys on a keyboard or just personal preference with possibly no true understanding of how scales work/sound? How do you come to ahh yes this is tonally accurate?

I mainly listen to drums when i listen to music. So for instance, i own an Anole VX and ive read some reviews that say it has an odd tonality. Woudl it be the BA bass becuase i do find it off at times not necessarily in sound but where it should be.

I think the Anole is one of the most natural sounding iems out there and if im only listening to drums it can't just be drum acurate considering how vast a frequency range they cover. Of course the Anole has its faults but on iems such as the Anole and others i sometimes wonder how people come to such conclusions.

Tone has nothing to do with pitch. A guitar playing a C maj chord will still sound like a C maj chord on any transducer, no matter what since the recorded pitch (frequency) does not change.

Tone represents the harmonic ratio of the instrument/recording. For example, 2 acoustic guitars of different makes can play A440 and they would sound different despite playing in the same pitch due to their harmonic ratio having differences.

The acoustic guitar that has more lower mids (more lower level harmonics) will sound warmer, thicker and richer than an acoustic guitar with more upper mid harmonic content (bright, thinner, sharper attack).

Re: tonal accuracy, it simply does not exist even though I use the term a lot. It is impossible to achieve a 1:1 tonal accurate reproduction. The microphones capturing the musician's instruments are already colored in their frequency response with the room affecting the overall sound. Then it goes through again the sound engineer's speaker for mixing. Mixing involves a lot of EQ and the sound engineer/artist will work together to create a specific type of sound the client wants. Not every client looks for a natural sound, bodied sound. Some intentionally want their instrument and voices to be very colored.

The engineer does not also account for that the recording needs to be played in their exact studio and with their specific speakers to sound good. The mark of an excellent recording is when they work with any sort of transducer - from cheap earbuds to car speakers.

Speakers from the 80s, 90s and modern day all sound different as well as their "ideal sound" of the time when played with their respective speakers. Thus tone will continuously change and progress over time as speakers are changed and how clients want their mix/masters to sound like.

Thus when I refer to "tonal accuracy", it's a mix of both how I expect modern speakers to sound while mixed with my tonal preferences (my target curve).

 

[Darkestred]

@toranku Hey, thanks for that response. That makes sense. At least you definitely know what you are talking about and with that i fully understand where you are coming from and have an understanding what you're looking for.

@Precogvision Another valuable input. I take no offense to people not liking the VX. Afterall, i am the one who auditioned it and when i had money came back to it as its one of the best iems that meets my needs. However, as time has gone on from my first audition i feel like the bass hit harder and i miss DD bass.

@buonassi I do the same thing from time-to-time.

 

[mungster]

For me, tonality isn't necessarily what sounds natural - simply because I have next to zero experience with real instruments - but rather what I think is "least offensive" or most agreeable. Artistic liberties aren't a bad thing depending on what you're looking for. There are lots of presentations, such as the 64 Audio U12t, which I wouldn't deem "natural", but that I think have terrific tonality. I'd posit those with more experience will likewise have more nuanced understandings.

VX has an issue in that its transients are razor sharp - which isn't inherently bad, mind you, and gives it that superb resolution. But in tandem with their thinness and lack of density, it sounds unnatural, almost fatiguing at times. The treble is probably the biggest culprit of this. I think it actually has one of the better BA bass responses sans being virtually textureless. Remember, this is just my take though! It's a top-tier IEM no doubt.

Seems like the u12t is your favorite iem.

 

[himaraya]

Seems like the u12t is your favorite iem.

He didn't pick up on their BA timbre noted here, which isn't really ideal.

 

[Precogvision]

Seems like the u12t is your favorite iem.

My favorite IEM is the IER-Z1R haha. I also prefer the Nio to the U12t, although I do like the U12t a good deal!

He didn't pick up on their BA timbre noted here, which isn't really ideal.

The 64audio U12t is another good example that largely circumvents the timbre issue. That plasticky "blanket" is there, but it's very, very thin to the point of which I don't really mind.

The U12t does have BA timbre; however, it’s one of the better offenders. It’s akin to a light blanket to the timbre, and not a deal-breaking one at that, especially in tandem with its slightly warmer coloration. Of course, YMMV and all that.

Edit: No ill-will intended by the way! I did go to lengths to make clear that that’s just my opinion on the VX. My aim wasn’t to uplift or devalue any of said IEMs. The U12t has plenty of issues that I’ve happily nitpicked at before too.

 

[Banbeucmas]

My favorite IEM is the IER-Z1R haha. I also prefer the Nio to the U12t, although I do like the U12t a good deal!





The U12t does have BA timbre; however, it’s one of the better offenders. It’s akin to a light blanket to the timbre, and not a deal-breaking one at that, especially in tandem with its slightly warmer coloration. Of course, YMMV and all that. However, I have mentioned this before and in my reviews too.

Well, there are multiple approach to tune an IEM. Lately I have been trying to eq IEM based on how I heard the driver.

But yeah, the u12t is good and the Z1R is simply amazing. The VX does have some tuning problem personally but the sheer resolution seem to be a good compromise that I would take. I don't think we should devalue an IEM solely based on how the tonality goes as long as they are within acceptable range.

 

[himaraya]

The Z1R seems to have unbalanced tuning and coherency issues, in addition to poor ergonomics. If it were a better allrounder, the build quality would make it very attractive.

 

[Banbeucmas]

The Z1R seems to have unbalanced tuning

That was what surprised me not gonna lie. That tuning somehow works with the Z1R but not for other IEM. I have tried to EQ a lot to no avail with other IEM. I think a lot of people usually look at an IEM fr and determine if it is bad or not. While I don't oppose to the idea that tuning an IEM to a target works, there are other approach as well such as the way DUNU is going according to an interview I listened a while ago.

 

[himaraya]

That was what surprised me not gonna lie. That tuning somehow works with the Z1R but not for other IEM. I have tried to EQ a lot to no avail with other IEM. I think a lot of people usually look at an IEM fr and determine if it is bad or not. While I don't oppose to the idea that tuning an IEM to a target works, there are other approach as well such as the way DUNU is going according to an interview I listened a while ago.

The Z1R seems to work very well for some genres but falls short in upper mids overall. For reference, I agree with Toranku's assessment of the M9: more balanced yet warm, if somewhat boring, and much better ergonomics. Still waiting on his final verdict for the new Andro...