[Telin]

Can't remember being in a community that is so polarizing as the audiophile community. You're either look at it subjectively (Head-Fi) or objectively (ASR) and there's nothing in between. Both camps will go at each other with pitchforks every chance they get. Me personally I'm neither, I'm somewhere in between.
I know that the audiophile community would be a stronger community and a better community if people were more willing to meet halfway.

I'm not completely in the subjective camp as I find a lot of statements that I read on this forum "floaty" at best and sometimes just pure snake oil nonsense which I still can't wrap my mind around that people take that seriously. At the same time I'm also not completely in the objective camp as i feel that a SINAD score is not the be all and end all of everything. Also lot of people on ASR don't (fully) understand the measurements or fully know how to interpreted the numbers and therefor taking things way out of perspective but still they are ready to spew there opinions on the internet spreading false information.

 

[Chik0240]

I think they don't care about, anymore. ASR measurements can not be trusted, they are made by an amateur. Take look at the TotalDAC Six measurements (read my comments in this thread), they are rigged with both 50Hz and 60Hz traces and only one kind can be attributed to a leak coming from a TotalDAC. As the same traces are present when testing Audio GD DAC, it gives an indication that all leaks are coming from the measuring equipment. A ground loops disturbance was so strong during tests that R2R-11 was triggering ladder recalibration every 20 seconds, it is noticed by a reviewer. How he decided to continue in such situation, I don't understand. It is a single ended DAC, less protected from external noise.

Common for all these botchered tests are power supply traces of both 60Hz and 50Hz, a sign that Amir was using power generator converting 60Hz/110V to the 50Hz/220V, these devices required 220V power.

well, even without that mains leak it doesn't matter for the rest of the distortion, what they are measuring was overall signal over distortion, as I mentioned above, when some others managed to do better than those, they did better, if designers think they do it this way and with all those distortions is better, fine, they should either not publish measurement or publish honestly, and even more is that some products measures there being really low in distortion like the D90 in this topic, which I auditioned to be quite suits my taste, when Topping can do it with all crippled Amir's tests, then so should Totaldac and Audio-gd no? audio-gd own published results shows massive difference in distortion products even for DS dacs and not R2R which contrast pretty much against third party measurements

 

[sajunky]

@Chik0240. You didn't hear to any Audio GD DACs or amps, did you? But I started with Topping and even a $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 blows Topping D30 in a sound quality. You may be happy with your DAC, but it is not always the case. A separate D30 tear-down thread on the ASR shows that I did not receive the same product as it was measured. In such case it is refering to the measurements of the different things.

 

[Chik0240]

@Chik0240. You didn't hear to any Audio GD DACs or amps, did you? But I started with Topping and even a $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 blows Topping D30 in a sound quality. You may be happy with your DAC, but it is not always the case. A separate D30 tear-down thread on the ASR shows that I did not receive the same product as it was measured. In such case it is refering to the measurements of the different things.

No, I have been using a NFB1 2014 for 3 years before changed to a Holoaudio Spring 2. I did auditioned the D90 and liked it quite some but didn't bother to change my dac anytime, for the Holo I do use the NOS mode which is known to roll off the highs which I preferred but that's nothing to do with measurement, I know the NOS SINAD is better for holo in NOS mode but it's not flat, and I found out I liked it, so it's my choice. What I mean is that I am perfectly fine for preference on particular type of distortion, or in room speaker curve as one like, but what I want is a honest manufacturer. For topping I don't exactly like their whole lineup, as in ASR I saw the pre90 in pursuit of ultimate SINAD they used a input impedance of 1.44k Ohms, which in turn would mess up the FR for a dac with higher output impedance.

I am not in either camp of measurement means all or subjective means all, but measurement is what should be honest, which can somewhat gives impression of how one new product could sound relative to my current gear.

 

[sajunky]

No, I have been using a NFB1 2014 for 3 years before changed to a Holoaudio Spring 2. I did auditioned the D90 and liked it quite some but didn't bother to change my dac anytime, for the Holo I do use the NOS mode which is known to roll off the highs which I preferred but that's nothing to do with measurement, I know the NOS SINAD is better for holo in NOS mode but it's not flat, and I found out I liked it, so it's my choice. What I mean is that I am perfectly fine for preference on particular type of distortion, or in room speaker curve as one like, but what I want is a honest manufacturer. For topping I don't exactly like their whole lineup, as in ASR I saw the pre90 in pursuit of ultimate SINAD they used a input impedance of 1.44k Ohms, which in turn would mess up the FR for a dac with higher output impedance.

I am very sorry for my statement. It is off topic on this thread, but I must say that your comment on Springs NOS mode is very interesting. You blame a high frequency roll-off, but there is no such effect on my Audio GD R2R-11. I made upsampling tests in SoX (as this DAC is NOS-only) and I don't really hear any roll-off in the 44.1kHz sample during comparison tests. In fact NOS works for me the best, I don't see any benefits of upsampling in SoX. I think what you experience has to do with how Holo Audio is handling NOS mode. In fact there is some digital randomisation of a ladder MSB errors, it is why Holo DACs measure well. Stereophile test of a Holo May reveal a stepping behaviour of a 1kHz sine test (fig.2) and an explanation is wrong, the same is shown in investigation of an abnormal Springs output on the osciloscope screen. See my post in this matter there. Denafrips DACs have a similar problem, while using a different algorithm, it shows on the Terminator/Ares Stereophile linearity test (fig.13). It is probaly why NOS mode is not much different than OS (I have opposed an OP statement that Ares II was no true NOS).

Interesting is that ASR did the same tests on both Holo and Denafrips DACs and didn't encounter any abnormal behaviour.

 

[Chik0240]

I am very sorry for my statement. It is off topic on this thread, but I must say that your comment on Springs NOS mode is very interesting. You blame a high frequency roll-off, but there is no such effect on my Audio GD R2R-11. I made upsampling tests in SoX (as this DAC is NOS-only) and I don't really hear any roll-off in the 44.1kHz sample during comparison tests. In fact NOS works for me the best, I don't see any benefits of upsampling in SoX. I think what you experience has to do with how Holo Audio is handling NOS mode. In fact there is some digital randomisation of a ladder MSB errors, it is why Holo DACs measure well. Stereophile test of a Holo May reveal a stepping behaviour of a 1kHz sine test (fig.2) and an explanation is wrong, the same is shown in investigation of an abnormal Springs output on the osciloscope screen. See my post in this matter there. Denafrips DACs have a similar problem, while using a different algorithm, it shows on the Terminator/Ares Stereophile linearity test (fig.13). It is probaly why NOS mode is not much different than OS (I have opposed an OP statement that Ares II was no true NOS).

Interesting is that ASR did the same tests on both Holo and Denafrips DACs and didn't encounter any abnormal behaviour.

Actually this is exactly why I appreciate third party measurements, yes it might not tell everything on all sides, be it inadequate measurement aspects or other reasons, but then it tells me what to expect, I forgot the actual reason for holo spring in 16/44.1 materials having a slight roll off at extreme high frequencies but well as I enjoyed the presentation, it’s for me. as is how I tuned my genelec speakers in my computer audio setup, I started from measured flat in room to try out various target curve. it's basically a systematic approach to obtain what I prefer

 

[tombrisbane]

Just ordered the D90SE along with an A90. Will sit next to my Sony TA-ZH1ES looking forward to see how it compares, the Sony isn’t the best with high impedance so hoping this will be!

 

[sajunky]

Just ordered the D90SE along with an A90. Will sit next to my Sony TA-ZH1ES looking forward to see how it compares, the Sony isn’t the best with high impedance so hoping this will be!

Insane low input impedance.

 

[kingoftown1]

...which is a non-issue if he's using it with the d90. Your anti-topping, pro-audio-gd agenda is painfully transparent.

 

[tombrisbane]

...which is a non-issue if he's using it with the d90.

Oh good - I was worried for a second! I was nearly ready to go with the D90 MQA a few weeks ago, glad I waited as the SE seems great from the reviews that I’ve seen. Will be interesting to compare to the Sony (which I love but certainly has a warmth to the sound).

 

[Arniesb]

Insane low input impedance.

I dont know how any webpage can tolerate trolls like you. We know your stance, you dont need repeat same bullcrap 10 times a day.
If you have Alhzeimer i can understand.
Your predictable posts gives nothing to the forum.

 

[sajunky]

I dont know how any webpage can tolerate trolls like you. We know your stance, you dont need repeat same bullcrap 10 times a day.

Is such important detail present in the technical specification? If not, there is perhaps a reason to remind you from time to time, right?

 

[Chik0240]

Is such important detail present in the technical specification? If not, there is perhaps a reason to remind you from time to time, right?

So why is it a problem if only used with the D90 which don’t have a problem with the impedance of the A90? If one ask about using any other DAC with topping A90 yes, that’s a reminder, but if it’s a matching pair I can’t see any reason it won’t be a brilliant performer

 

[tombrisbane]

Time to give them a listen!

 

[milkdudd]

Time to give them a listen!

I find that when all else fails and I just can't make up my mind based on everyone else's opinion, I hook everything up and give 'em a listen. Not dissing opinions, doing research before making a purchase can prevent a lot of disappointment. Just a hunch but I think your setup will sound terrific