Topping A90 Discrete aka A90D

[ezduzit2500]

Both the Topping D10 Balanced and the SMSL D-6 are fullt balanced, with separate DAc chips for each channel.

Ooof, I wasn't aware that the D10 had a BAL version, LOL. The D-6 is new isn't it - with TRS BAL outs?

 

[carlcamper]

Ooof, I wasn't aware that the D10 had a BAL version, LOL. The D-6 is new isn't it - with TRS BAL outs?

Yes correct

https://www.topping.audio/productinfo/666141.html
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/795.html

 

[carlcamper]

https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html

 

[PointyFox]

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
People tend to not like good sound and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better).
A lot of crosstalk for instance will slightly merge left and right channels.
This creates a more continuous sound field and more tangible 3D positioning between left and right as well as a thicker/less "sterile" sound.
Just look at the RebelAmp crosstalk or pretty much any measurement of the Yggdrasil's performance.
I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.

FWIW, I'll add another data point. I owned an Emotiva BasX a2m and the A90 at the same time. I volume matched through a He6se (one of the most difficult to drive headphones) and set up a switch that I could use to switch immediately back and forth. Absolutely no difference in sound.

Not sorry if anyone gets mad for the perceived assault on their ego.
Those who are mad may now commence insinuating that I can't hear, am dumb, am trolling, etc. to make themselves feel better.

 

[Arniesb]

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
People tend to not like good sound and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better).
A lot of crosstalk for instance will slightly merge left and right channels.
This creates a more continuous sound field and more tangible 3D positioning between left and right as well as a thicker/less "sterile" sound.
Just look at the RebelAmp crosstalk or pretty much any measurement of the Yggdrasil's performance.
I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.

FWIW, I'll add another data point. I owned an Emotiva BasX a2m and the A90 at the same time. I volume matched through a He6se (one of the most difficult to drive headphones) and set up a switch that I could use to switch immediately back and forth. Absolutely no difference in sound.

Not sorry if anyone gets mad for the perceived assault on their ego.
Those who are mad may now commence insinuating that I can't hear, am dumb, am trolling, etc. to make themselves feel better.

Folks like expensive wine... Doesnt make it any better than water.

 

[PointyFox]

I call it old grape juice lol

 

[Andrewteee]

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.

I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.

I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy.

And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems.

We can apply this to photography too. There might be a "correct" camera -- take in the light and convert it to bits (in digital cameras) -- but they all (thankfully) do this differently. And a straight RAW image is often pretty dull; it's a base on which to build the final image through post processing. We can also apply the idea of photography and different ways to process an image to listening to music -- people prefer different things, different approaches to processing (I love black and white photography).

This has nothing to do with price, or Topping vs boutique amps.

The A90 Discrete is on my short list to try with the DCA Stealth headphones. With those headphones and certain types of music (mostly acoustic guitar) I probably lean toward the "good" or objective view of the music, partly because I not only enjoy the music but also the sounds of the instruments themselves and even the ambiance of the recording -- I want to hear what's there, a neutral presentation.

But in other music types (mostly space and ambient and various forms of metal) I prefer a different character, a different type of good and a more subjective presentation.

 

[PointyFox]

I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy.

And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems.

We can apply this to photography too. There might be a "correct" camera -- take in the light and convert it to bits (in digital cameras) -- but they all (thankfully) do this differently. And a straight RAW image is often pretty dull; it's a base on which to build the final image through post processing. We can also apply the idea of photography and different ways to process an image to listening to music -- people prefer different things, different approaches to processing (I love black and white photography).

This has nothing to do with price, or Topping vs boutique amps.

The A90 Discrete is on my short list to try with the DCA Stealth headphones. With those headphones and certain types of music (mostly acoustic guitar) I probably lean toward the "good" or objective view of the music, partly because I not only enjoy the music but also the sounds of the instruments themselves and even the ambiance of the recording -- I want to hear what's there, a neutral presentation.

But in other music types (mostly space and ambient and various forms of metal) I prefer a different character, a different type of good and a more subjective presentation.

I just ordered a Stealth and A90D. Stealth should be here in a couple days and the A90D in like 10-15.
Will review them. I'm expecting the A90D to be able to drive the Stealth at either the high end of low gain or the low end of medium gain.
The A90 drove my Susvara which I believe is a little harder to drive around the middle of medium gain, and the A90D has a little more output range than the A90.

With so little desire for "correct" sound, why don't people just plug some guitar effects pedals into their headphone amps?

 

[PointyFox]

double post

 

[ezduzit2500]

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
People tend to not like good sound and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better).
A lot of crosstalk for instance will slightly merge left and right channels.
This creates a more continuous sound field and more tangible 3D positioning between left and right as well as a thicker/less "sterile" sound.
Just look at the RebelAmp crosstalk or pretty much any measurement of the Yggdrasil's performance.
I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.

FWIW, I'll add another data point. I owned an Emotiva BasX a2m and the A90 at the same time. I volume matched through a He6se (one of the most difficult to drive headphones) and set up a switch that I could use to switch immediately back and forth. Absolutely no difference in sound.

Not sorry if anyone gets mad for the perceived assault on their ego.
Those who are mad may now commence insinuating that I can't hear, am dumb, am trolling, etc. to make themselves feel better.

If you can't tell the difference between the A2M and the OG A90....well, I just don't have a good way to add anything else.... Do you, Duke - it's your setup and whatever you like - but I'll pass. When I had them I much preferred the Emo because: more natural timbre compared to A-90.

 

[ezduzit2500]

I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy.

And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems.

We can apply this to photography too. There might be a "correct" camera -- take in the light and convert it to bits (in digital cameras) -- but they all (thankfully) do this differently. And a straight RAW image is often pretty dull; it's a base on which to build the final image through post processing. We can also apply the idea of photography and different ways to process an image to listening to music -- people prefer different things, different approaches to processing (I love black and white photography).

This has nothing to do with price, or Topping vs boutique amps.

The A90 Discrete is on my short list to try with the DCA Stealth headphones. With those headphones and certain types of music (mostly acoustic guitar) I probably lean toward the "good" or objective view of the music, partly because I not only enjoy the music but also the sounds of the instruments themselves and even the ambiance of the recording -- I want to hear what's there, a neutral presentation.

But in other music types (mostly space and ambient and various forms of metal) I prefer a different character, a different type of good and a more subjective presentation.

Excellently conveyed....

 

[PointyFox]

If you can't tell the difference

Thank you for insinuating that I can't hear.

 

[ericx85]

As others have already said, people will have their opinion of what "correct" is. The people that want to hear a difference will, and the ones that dont want to hear a difference wont. People will hear a difference because they want to justify the high cost of a purchase and you can flip the argument by saying those that don't hear a difference wont want to because graphs tell them they dont or because they'll save money. Whatever camp you're in, you owe it to yourself to try both sides so you'll never be second guessing in the back of your head or trying to shut down other people that are on the other end (not calling out either side). For all you know that $200 DAC/Amp might actually not sound different at all than your $2000 DAC/Amp, or the $2000 might really might sound better to you. Be happy for those that hear a difference and are having a new/better experience. Be happy for those that don't hear a difference because their wallets get to be fatter or they invest in other hobbies while still enjoying their music.

IMHO, both approaches can be correct. Psychological or not. People seek distortion because the digitization of something to their ears makes it sound off or whatever where as the distortion restores how they hear a song or instrument in real life. People that hate distortion want to see a restored signal without any perceived imperfections/alterations because in their opinion that's what the instrument really sounds like. As stupid as this might sound, I feel like the whole debate wouldn't get as heated as it sometimes does or there wouldn't be such a division if the word "distortion" didn't sound as bad as it does on its own without understanding why people do want it and manufacturers will purposely add it. The great thing is, there's companies out there that make gear for every taste and preference at all price points.

 

[obzilla]

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.

what a strange thing to say about one of the most subjective hobbies out there.

 

[ok computer]

Just got shipping confirmation! I’ve had a pair of stealths sitting unused in my studio for two weeks lol. Don’t have anything with a balanced output atm. Very frustrating not being able to play with your new toys!